semente Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I've noticed that many BIS recordings which are available at Qobuz as "16-Bit CD Quality" only are also available at e|classical "STUDIO QUALITY" 24/44.1 Does anyone know if the 24/44.1 version is a repackaged version of the Redbook or if it's true 24-bit? "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
semente Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 Here's an example: https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/sibelius-complete-symphonies-nos-1-7-lahti-symphony-orchestra-okko-kamu/7318599920764 http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies-1.html http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies.html "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Popular Post jhwalker Posted March 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2018 32 minutes ago, semente said: Here's an example: https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/sibelius-complete-symphonies-nos-1-7-lahti-symphony-orchestra-okko-kamu/7318599920764 http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies-1.html http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies.html I've noticed the same. I've gotten where I check eClassical first to see if 1) the recording is available in multichannel and 2) if it's 24-bit vs. 16-bit. If so, and the cost differential is not great, I'll buy it Multichannel is pretty great. semente and rando 1 1 John Walker - IT Executive Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system Link to comment
Popular Post Musicophile Posted March 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2018 Eclassical is owned by BIS. And BIS has been recording in 24/44 for many years now. It is very unlikely you’d get a fake 24/44 BIS from eclassical. rando and semente 1 1 Check out my blog at musicophilesblog.com - From Keith Jarrett to Johannes Brahms Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted March 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2018 eClassical/BIS don’t sell upsampled downloads. In fact, at eClassical each album page tells you what format the recording was made in. There have been some cases of distributors of BIS material taking an old recording and upsampling it to DSD/high res and selling it to download sites-without knowledge or permission of BIS. I know this from correspondence wth BIS. But if you buy their product from eClassical/BIS, it’s sure you won’t get fake hi-res. semente, Mark Dirac and rando 2 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
rando Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 If the recording was made in the last 15 years it might even be available as SACD. Certainly the majority of Osmo Vänskä's individual recordings are. semente 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Musicophile Posted March 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2018 To be fair, I once found an album that was mislabeled on eclassical as 24/96, and only part of the album was actually recorded in 24/96, the other part in 24/44. I flagged it to them, they corrected immediately and gave me a free download as compensation. Peter Hyatt and semente 1 1 Check out my blog at musicophilesblog.com - From Keith Jarrett to Johannes Brahms Link to comment
firedog Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 2 hours ago, semente said: Here's an example: https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/sibelius-complete-symphonies-nos-1-7-lahti-symphony-orchestra-okko-kamu/7318599920764 http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies-1.html http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies.html Meaning the http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies.html link at eclassical tells you the original sample rate of the recording was 96k. The other versions are downsamples. semente 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
chrille Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 On 2018-03-04 at 8:31 PM, firedog said: Meaning the http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies.html link at eclassical tells you the original sample rate of the recording was 96k. The other versions are downsamples. I am pretty sure BIS records basically everything at 24/96 since quite a few years. They did a few trials with DSD in the early years of SACD then turned to 24/44.1 for a couple of years and finally 24/96. semente 1 Link to comment
firedog Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 4 hours ago, chrille said: I am pretty sure BIS records basically everything at 24/96 since quite a few years. They did a few trials with DSD in the early years of SACD then turned to 24/44.1 for a couple of years and finally 24/96. Certainly in recent times that seems to be true, although the eClassical site does sell various formats. BIS told me that some of their early 90's recordings that weren't in high res were sold as upsampled files to hi-res download sites as "hi-res" . This was done without their permission, but apparently there isn't anything they can do about it. semente 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
ted_b Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 7 hours ago, chrille said: I am pretty sure BIS records basically everything at 24/96 since quite a few years. They did a few trials with DSD in the early years of SACD then turned to 24/44.1 for a couple of years and finally 24/96. That is correct. They have 8 or so SACDs that were recorded in DSD; the rest were 24/44.1. Then they played around with 24 bit sample rates (there may be one or two 24/88s) until finalizing on 24/96 for the past many years. semente 1 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Jay-dub Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 There were a few recordings (from the 2002-2004 period) that were originally 20/44.1, and were padded to 24 bits for eClassical. 24/44.1 was their dominant recording format from roughly 2005-2011, so there are still about as many albums in the BIS catalog in that format as there are 24/96. Besides several recordings in 24/88.2, there are also a few in 24/48, but I don't think either of those were ever the label's preferred recording format. I've only once downloaded a BIS recording from eClassical that appeared to be upsampled: the first Schumann violin sonata (with Wallin). The other sonatas on the album clearly have high bandwidth, and are not upsampled. I don't know if anybody cares, but for older BIS albums the files on eClassical are not normally bit-for-bit with the original CD. Most of them (up to the late nineties) were recorded with preemphasis, and that was true of the digital files when I first started using eClassical. Sometime around the end of 2013, the files were replaced. Deemphasis had been applied, and they'd been requantized to 16-bit. semente 1 Link to comment
semente Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 From what I've seen, Qobuz is selling many Redbook boxsets at £16 which retail at eClassical for 3x, 4x or more as much. Some of them are also available in Higher Res at eClassical but not a Qobuz. Qobuz Redbook - £16 eClassical Redbook - $50 / £36 eClassical Studio (24/44.1) - $70 / £50 https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/beethoven-the-complete-piano-sonatas-ronald-brautigam/7318599920009 http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/beethoven-the-complete-piano-sonatas.html I'll have the Qobuz. Peter Hyatt 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
rando Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 If all your listening is redbook, thus legacy recordings from some years back, that is a fair comparison of where they are being undercut. Should you on the other hand enjoy current BIS recordings. The extent to which you support their continued efforts is less straightforward. If I remind you Quobuz is very active in the act of price fixing. Things go completely sideways. That album on the GB site could sell at a higher price in practically any other country than it does on eClassical. Link to comment
gdpr Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I prefer buying the physical sacd bundle for 60€ and rip them myself to DSF Link to comment
Musicophile Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, ddetaey said: I prefer buying the physical sacd bundle for 60€ and rip them myself to DSF Note that BIS SACDs are for the most part sourced from 24 but PCM material so you would not get the master format this way. Check out my blog at musicophilesblog.com - From Keith Jarrett to Johannes Brahms Link to comment
gdpr Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I am aware of that. However, I am converting all music to DSD via HQplayer (embeded), so for me it makes sense to start from a professionally converted file. Less work to do by HQplayer Peter Hyatt 1 Link to comment
ted_b Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, ddetaey said: I am aware of that. However, I am converting all music to DSD via HQplayer (embeded), so for me it makes sense to start from a professionally converted file. Less work to do by HQplayer While this is certainly a nit, a small first world problem by any stretch....I will say this: I'd much rather trust HQPlayer to take an original PCM recording to DSD (any bit rate) than assume the 3rd party doing BIS's SACD authoring process treated it as well. But again, we all have bigger problems. semente 1 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
FIndingit Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 In my view all BIS recordings sound somehow subpar when streaming in Qobuz. It is strange, since I remember many BIS cs’s sounding Great. There’s a sense of flattened dynamics. Say NO to ROON Link to comment
#Yoda# Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Many BIS albums are available as download and presumably HiRes streaming at HighResAudio.com maybe different, depending on where you are resident https://www.highresaudio.com/en/search/?label=BIS&sort=-releaseDate. Due to their quality guarantee you can be sure to get real HiRes what is not always given at Qobuz.com Link to comment
Peter Hyatt Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 On 3/17/2018 at 4:43 AM, semente said: From what I've seen, Qobuz is selling many Redbook boxsets at £16 which retail at eClassical for 3x, 4x or more as much. Some of them are also available in Higher Res at eClassical but not a Qobuz. Qobuz Redbook - £16 eClassical Redbook - $50 / £36 eClassical Studio (24/44.1) - $70 / £50 https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/beethoven-the-complete-piano-sonatas-ronald-brautigam/7318599920009 http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/beethoven-the-complete-piano-sonatas.html I'll have the Qobuz. Great price for the download at Qobuz. Other box set recommendations download hi res from Qobuz? Link to comment
semente Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 If you haven't bough it yet, it's available with 50% off https://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/beethoven-the-nine-symphonies-2.html?cache=purge Musicophile 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
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