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Networked HDD vs Internal SSD for music files?

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I am getting nice sound from a networked externally powered USB connected hdd on a win 10 computer that connects via ethernet switch to my playing computer using foobar.  

 

thinking about buying an ssd to use for music files in the player computer and eliminate the networked drive.  My player computer uses a hdd for the os.  I know from experience the networked drive is better sounding than any firewire or usb connected drive on the player computer.

 

For those who have gone down this path, can you offer me your experience?

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Thanks @davide256 and @acousticmood for the input.  I remember back when I used a laptop for a headphone system and it had an ssd for os.  Music played from that drive did not sound as good as usb connected spinner and of course when I went networked drive for the music files, standard desktop killed the poor lappy for music reproduction.

 

wondering if there really is not that much difference running the os of the hdd vs ssd when all I am running foobar and letting a quieted down win 10 do its housekeeping writes and pulling files every so often into cache for foobar???

 

 

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SSD for OS is  better, besides being faster, its electrically quieter and requires less fan cooling. Haven't had one die yet from swap file, knock on wood. If you are using Foobar2000 as renderer, I find Fidelizer Pro really helps improve PC USB out with its OS optimizations for audio.


Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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Yes, I am sure it is quieter, but once Foobar is loaded into memory the only thing the os drive does is housekeeping and cache I suppose.  Fan is usually on very low and heat is not a concern at all since it is a big ole desktop.  Yet, I suspect it might be nice to have an ssd in there, just a matter of time and $$.

 

and yes fidelizer pro is in use and I like it a lot.  any feedback on the newest version, he did not do a great job of marketing what is better about it other than streaming, and some other stuff that I don;t know is about improving sound.  Any impressions on the upgrade if you have done it?

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12 hours ago, bixby said:

Yes, I am sure it is quieter, but once Foobar is loaded into memory the only thing the os drive does is housekeeping and cache I suppose.  Fan is usually on very low and heat is not a concern at all since it is a big ole desktop.  Yet, I suspect it might be nice to have an ssd in there, just a matter of time and $$.

 

and yes fidelizer pro is in use and I like it a lot.  any feedback on the newest version, he did not do a great job of marketing what is better about it other than streaming, and some other stuff that I don;t know is about improving sound.  Any impressions on the upgrade if you have done it?

I'd say its more stable, easier to use when altering optimization levels and backing out. SQ wise I can't say that the newer version made a change I noticed.


Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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Sorry to beat a dead horse, but trying to be cheap.  I finally picked up a 256 Sandisk Ultra 3D ssd and copied a bunch of music files from my network drive over to listen with Foobar.  Really a nice subtle increase in fidelity.  I am still using a HDD for the win 10 OS.

 

but when I hosted a micro Headphone meet last week another Foobar user suggested I try the Ram disk Component for Foobar.  Holy cow, now that is good.  

 

So wonderinig if anyone has experience with the OS on a partition on a single SSD with music in another partition of same ssd? 
 

How does it sound and do you think it might give benefits of ssd for OS and let me use ram disk with same of better results than with hdd and ramdisk?

 

Hope this is clear.  Thanks in advance.

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On 03. 03. 2018. at 1:52 AM, bixby said:

Yes, I am sure it is quieter, but once Foobar is loaded into memory the only thing the os drive does is housekeeping and cache I suppose.  Fan is usually on very low and heat is not a concern at all since it is a big ole desktop.  Yet, I suspect it might be nice to have an ssd in there, just a matter of time and $$.

 

and yes fidelizer pro is in use and I like it a lot.  any feedback on the newest version, he did not do a great job of marketing what is better about it other than streaming, and some other stuff that I don;t know is about improving sound.  Any impressions on the upgrade if you have done it?

 

I know how much more it's convenient to use Windows platform for a sound, and I myself am anything but skilled in Linux based platforms. But there are ready to use easy to install solutions available, optimized Linux based distros and systems. 

 

Once a listener realises how much more fidelity you get in the upper frequencies when using Linux based systems, how more gentle and less digital/harsh sound becomes compared to Windows, and all that when installed on inferior CPU (and RAM memory) laptop, there's no going back to Windows. In my sistem plain Atom 500 Mb RAM computer does much better job than i5 or i3 based Windows laptops, regardless of using WASAPI plus Fidelizer. 

 

My warmest recommendation to everyone is to try installing something as simple as Daphile for a start (I'm still using it for convention but I certainly won't say it's the best linux based solution around; yet it's quite easy to install and use, plus, you can even make a bootable USB key installation), then do compare it to Windows and see if you like it better. If yes, then never go back to Windows but rather search for the best possible linux based solution, if you want.

 

Windows is very much 'fake' OS, it never became a proper preemptive multitasking OS as it was promised. We see this nowadays when various Flash processes quite easily rob the time and OS doesn't easily gets the control back. This is still a cooperative multitasking, not a real preemptive multitasking. Linux is on the other hand based on unix which was a mainframe designed no nonsense system and it has a full control over its processes so distributing time is no problem even with regular distros. And then additionally  unnecessary processes can be stripped down from the distro, thus creating an optimized environment for the audio. This is whatlinux audio distros/systems creators had been doing. Windows can't match that, they are mess full of processes which rob processing time and other computer resources by various ways. It can be understood. It can be heard. 

 

 

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@Bixby Perhaps the benefit of the network drive is due to electrical isolation of the drive from the player.

 

I have a music server pc with a SSD for OS and internal HDD for music (too much music, too little $$$). I isolate the drives electrically by using a linear psu and really like the effect. This is better than using internal drives on the audio pc or the unix nas I own.

 

I saw you like Fidelizer Pro (as do I). I use windows server 2016 and AudiophileOptimizer - these make bigger improvements than playing with the drives.

 

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So, as far as music file storage is concerned (& playback) have I understood this correctly please?

 

The best solution is to use an external drive with independent LPSU? And the drive should be HDD, not SSD?

 

OR, is there an even better solution like loading playing music files into RAM?

 

Cheers!

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My personal experience has been SSD's (up to 1TB) with separate and individual LPS's is better than a 4GB HDD in external USB 3.0 enclosure powered by 3A LPS and with Intona Industrial USB Isolator inline between the PC and and enclosure. (StarTech.com USB 3.1 (10Gbps) Enclosure for 3.5” SATA Drives with WD Red WD40EFRX 4TB SATA 6Gbps Buffer 64MB IntelliPower HDD)

 

This is all possibly software dependent... I am not 100% sure, but when I tested HQPlayer seemed to not cache upsampled files into memory.. the enclosure read-LED was doing a disco light show while playing using HQPlayer.. When I tested the external enclosure with JPlay this LED activity was greatly reduced and sometimes eliminated dependent on the software settings.

 

Even then, in my system I  still think an SSD with separate and individual LPS's is preferable.

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51 minutes ago, motberg said:

My personal experience has been SSD's (up to 1TB) with separate and individual LPS's is better than a 4GB HDD in external USB 3.0 enclosure powered by 3A LPS and with Intona Industrial USB Isolator inline between the PC and and enclosure. (StarTech.com USB 3.1 (10Gbps) Enclosure for 3.5” SATA Drives with WD Red WD40EFRX 4TB SATA 6Gbps Buffer 64MB IntelliPower HDD)

 

This is all possibly software dependent... I am not 100% sure, but when I tested HQPlayer seemed to not cache upsampled files into memory.. the enclosure read-LED was doing a disco light show while playing using HQPlayer.. When I tested the external enclosure with JPlay this LED activity was greatly reduced and sometimes eliminated dependent on the software settings.

 

Even then, in my system I  still think an SSD with separate and individual LPS's is preferable.

....see this search: https://audiophilestyle.com/search/?q=ssd vs. hdd.......

throws up lots of contradictions in the SSD/HDD debate: esp. saying that SSD has far too much noise compared to HDD, and that SSD should never be used for file playback, too thin, too noisy, too artificial etc?

OR is it a case of try them all and see what you prefer personally?

Up to now my first built music PC, one box solution with a USB memory stick for file storage sounded the best, even though I have now tried 2 or 3 much more complicated solutions they are not any better than what I started out with originally! And I haven't even reached the clock/re-clock bit yet! And the NUC/AL/RAM playback route is pulling me in as well.

At the moment my files are stored on SSD internal to my Syn.DS218+ NAS. I was thinking of connecting a SSD or HDD externally via eSATA with a 5V lpsu in a caddy, going on what I have read in the SSD vs. HDD threads. That was my intention, Now I'm not so sure once again! 

 

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8 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

So, as far as music file storage is concerned (& playback) have I understood this correctly please?

 

The best solution is to use an external drive with independent LPSU? And the drive should be HDD, not SSD?

 

OR, is there an even better solution like loading playing music files into RAM?

 

Cheers!

 

 

I would get a NAS (network attached storage) and go with WiFi for the ultimate in galvanic isolation. You can get an Asus AC1200 dual band (MIMO) router for $40, Ac 1200 USB WiFi network dongle for $20.

 

You will get speeds that support even demanding DSD data rates and do it for $60.

 

One way to test all of this is install the free trial version of J River and set it up for 20 seconds of buffer. Start play back and enable air plane mode. Now this will kill power to the WiFi USB but the music will still play out of buffer. If you don't hear a difference then that is the best / most optimal setup you can achieve.

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15 hours ago, plissken said:

 

 

I would get a NAS (network attached storage) and go with WiFi for the ultimate in galvanic isolation. You can get an Asus AC1200 dual band (MIMO) router for $40, Ac 1200 USB WiFi network dongle for $20.

 

You will get speeds that support even demanding DSD data rates and do it for $60.

 

One way to test all of this is install the free trial version of J River and set it up for 20 seconds of buffer. Start play back and enable air plane mode. Now this will kill power to the WiFi USB but the music will still play out of buffer. If you don't hear a difference then that is the best / most optimal setup you can achieve.

I have: syn. ds218+ NAS with max. memory of 6GB & LPSU; + zyxel-vmg3925 dual band wireless acn vdsl2-combo wan gigabit router with usb port W/LPSU.

So, I think all I need is the wifi dongle for the NAS?

Cheers!

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56 minutes ago, the_doc735 said:

I have: syn. ds218+ NAS with max. memory of 6GB & LPSU; + zyxel-vmg3925 dual band wireless acn vdsl2-combo wan gigabit router with usb port W/LPSU.

So, I think all I need is the wifi dongle for the NAS?

Cheers!

addendum:

 

SSD or HDD, and why?

Internal or external, and why?

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tried both in a DS214play, end result was SSD better with stock PS, no difference when powered by an LPS. Set the DS214play aside when I switched to Roon as it didn't

have the CPU power required for Roon database and playback.


Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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8 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

I have: syn. ds218+ NAS with max. memory of 6GB & LPSU; + zyxel-vmg3925 dual band wireless acn vdsl2-combo wan gigabit router with usb port W/LPSU.

So, I think all I need is the wifi dongle for the NAS?

Cheers!

 

7 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

addendum:

 

SSD or HDD, and why?

Internal or external, and why?

 

You would hard wire the NAS into the ASUS and use the AC1200 USB on your playback machine.

 

HDD on the NAS because the $ to GB is better and it will not yield you any SQ increase. Remember you can disable the WiFi adapter and music will still play. The HDD in the NAS is out of the picture at this point.

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On 3/3/2019 at 3:47 PM, plissken said:

 

 

You would hard wire the NAS into the ASUS and use the AC1200 USB on your playback machine.

 

HDD on the NAS because the $ to GB is better and it will not yield you any SQ increase. Remember you can disable the WiFi adapter and music will still play. The HDD in the NAS is out of the picture at this point.

I don't have Asus?

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On 3/3/2019 at 12:36 AM, the_doc735 said:

addendum:

 

SSD or HDD, and why?

Internal or external, and why?

 

Did you ever find that Symposium organized by CC that SandyK mentioned on another thread?  He didn't give a link to it, but if you can find a link, I'll take a look at the methodology.

 

Mechanistically, it is hard to think of reasons why it would matter...


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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6 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

I don't have Asus?

It's a Router that you could use as a dedicated, music only, wireless access point, on it's own SSID and Channel.

 

I'm saying you could spend $60 and have a dedicated network segment that will allow you to play virtually any music format w/o worry.

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4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Did you ever find that Symposium organized by CC that SandyK mentioned on another thread?  He didn't give a link to it, but if you can find a link, I'll take a look at the methodology.

 

Mechanistically, it is hard to think of reasons why it would matter...

no?

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1 hour ago, plissken said:

It's a Router that you could use as a dedicated, music only, wireless access point, on it's own SSID and Channel.

 

I'm saying you could spend $60 and have a dedicated network segment that will allow you to play virtually any music format w/o worry.

when I had my fibre optical broadband put in, I had to have a new zyxel router along with the 'ONT' box. So, I now have my reasonably new netgear router as a spare (DGND3700v2). Couldn't I use that instead of buying an Asus?

Cheers!

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10 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

when I had my fibre optical broadband put in, I had to have a new zyxel router along with the 'ONT' box. So, I now have my reasonably new netgear router as a spare (DGND3700v2). Couldn't I use that instead of buying an Asus?

Cheers!

 

You sure could :)

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