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Allo DigiOne in connexion with Mutec MC-3+ USB


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Hi Everyone,

 

I recently made the acquisition of a small player, an Allo DigiOne (https://www.allo.com/sparky/digione-player.html), which I found interesting in connection with my existing reclocker Mutec MC-3+ USB and my Mutec Ref-10.

What is relatively unique with this player is the capability it has to produce a stream of music in the form of S-P/DIF in the first place, instead of producing a more common USB music stream.

S-P/DIF is a synchronous protocols, which embeds, in the stream, the musical information together with the timing reference of the music. It is therefore to be opposed to asynchronous protocols like USB, which do not include any timing reference, the musical data being buffered at the DAC prior to being processed with the DAC's clock as a timing reference. 

These synchronous protocols (S-P/DIF here) have opened the door to some interesting processing techniques, called 'reclocking', during which the music stream is plugged onto a improved timing reference provided by a more stable clock ie a reclocker. Mutec MC-3+ and MC-3+ USB are such devices. In addition to this, a new generation of very stable clocks has emerged, the first of them the Mutec Ref-10, which goal is to further improve the stability of the timing signal used for reclocking.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the interaction and complementarity of these two items (S-P/DIF player) and reclocker (Mutec MC-3+ USB).

 

Here is an explanation of the data conversion process of the DigiOne: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/allo-digione-board/18564/128

 

In practice, connected to the Mutec MC-3+ USB with a 75 Ohm BNC cable, this small and inexpensive player makes a very good combination.

A precaution though: to obtain the best results, you should upgrade the stock wall wart SPSU by a better one, possibly a LPSU if you can afford. This will largely improve the openness in the high frequencies and extend the assertiveness in the bass.

Also, if you elect to use the DietPi software, you can choose to play with the priorities of the Roon RAAT Server in Linux, and get very unique results.

The relatively inexpensiveness of the device makes the trial reasonable. Keep us posted ;)

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19 hours ago, SwissBear said:

A short update here to say that I have been playing with a small and inexpensive network player, the Allo DigiOne (https://www.allo.com/sparky/digione-player.html), which fits exceptionally well with the Mutec MC-3+ USB.

Instead of outputting the stream in an USB form as major network players are doing (Sonore µ-rendu and Ultra-rendu, SOtM sMS-200 and sMS-200 Ultra), the DigiOne is producing an S-P/DIF stream, ie already 'clocked' with a relatively high precision clock.

Connected to the Mutec MC-3+ USB with a 75 Ohm BNC cable, this small and inexpensive player makes a very good combination for reclocking.

A precaution though: to obtain the best results, you should upgrade the stock wall-mart SPSU by a better one, possibly a LPSU if you can afford. This will largely improve the openness in the high frequencies and extend the assertiveness in the bass.

Also, if you elect to use the DietPi software, you can choose to play with the priorities of the Roon RAAT Server in Linux, and get very unique results.

The relatively inexpensiveness of the device makes the trial reasonable. Keep us posted ;)

Sure.... have you bought only the digione card or the full player with the allo psu?

Without the allo psu, I would say it is a digione use at only 50% of the performance and capacity of this device.

 

Source : QNAP TS-131, LMS 7.9, Player Digione

Amp+Cables+Speakers : FDA V200, Audioprana Ag Cryo 4 brins, Atohm GT2

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1 hour ago, r11bordo said:

Sure.... have you bought only the digione card or the full player with the allo psu?

Without the allo psu, I would say it is a digione use at only 50% of the performance and capacity of this device.

 

Yes I have the stock wall wart sold with the bundle. And this PSU does not not allow to get the best results from the player. I am not the only one to have this view. You should check the review of the DigiOne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iey5yKd-p4. Hans Beekhuyzen is sharing this view too.
 

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Hi,

 

I should be interested to know what PSU you have used with the player.

 

Honestly, I had seen the video you shared and I own both PSU, the ifi ipower tested on the video, and the allo stock PSU. I completly desagree with Hans Beekhuyzen by comparing both PSU on several players at home.

I obtain better soundstage, better clarity, definition, and realism and above all the right speed on music. With the ifi ipower, which was my reference, all music appear smother, less real, and everything seems shrunk and slower. On live music, the difference is quite obvious. Perhaps a taste matter ...

 

Source : QNAP TS-131, LMS 7.9, Player Digione

Amp+Cables+Speakers : FDA V200, Audioprana Ag Cryo 4 brins, Atohm GT2

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1 hour ago, r11bordo said:

Hi,

 

I should be interested to know what PSU you have used with the player.

.....

Perhaps a taste matter ...

 

Well, seems we have a disagreement, which is something I can live with.

I am using a Paul Hynes LPSU. 

Please note that my main goal with this contribution was not to discuss powering of the DigiOne as such, a discussion which would be welcome in the dedicated thread for this player (https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37205-allo-digione/), but not so much here.

 

I wanted to outline the nice complementarity between the DigiOne and the Mutec MC-3+ USB.

IMO, the DigiOne is offering an additional value to the 'standard' network player, and this is the clocking component. When aiming at using a Mutec MC-3+ USB, which goal is to provide a nice and clean S-P/DIF or AES/EBU music stream, using a DigiOne might appear more adequate than a standard network player.

If you have a Mutec MC-3+ USB, you might share your thoughts about this complementarity and this would certainly be useful to the readers of this thread :) 

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I wouldn't say a disagreement, I would say a different perception, on different systems. Quite normal un fact.

I note your PSU, but it is imo very too expensive for the Digione player. So, I don't think I will have the possibility to test it.

Source : QNAP TS-131, LMS 7.9, Player Digione

Amp+Cables+Speakers : FDA V200, Audioprana Ag Cryo 4 brins, Atohm GT2

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4 hours ago, r11bordo said:

I wouldn't say a disagreement, I would say a different perception, on different systems.

I will not play on words.

The only thing I would disagree with in the report of Hans Beekhuyzen I pointed to is the fact that he organises an implicit hierarchy based on devices' prices, saying that only the sMS-200 Ultra is worth sitting in his number one system, whereas the DigiOne is not worth it...

 

For someone who, like most of Mutec MC-3+ USB users (not to mention the Ref-10 users among which I am fortunate to belong), has a DAC with a good S-P/DIF or AES/EBU input, and is sensitive to the benefits of reclocking (better analog presentation of music, deeper and more assertive bass, better general and micro-dynamics, aso), the DigiOne, connected to a Mutec MC-3+ USB, probably is an option to consider. And even on a system which costs more than 20'000 EUR, if adequately powered (will not reopen the debate here), its benefits could be audible.

Just my 2c.

 

I will mention the nice listening report of Confused on the MC-3+ USB and Ref-10 here: https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=4941&pid=72529#pid72529

As he has already posted in another thread, he might not want to cross-post. So I am doing this for him. Congrats @Confused;) 

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22 minutes ago, SwissBear said:

I will not play on words.

The only thing I would disagree with in the report of Hans Beekhuyzen I pointed to is the fact that he organises an implicit hierarchy based on devices' prices, saying that only the sMS-200 Ultra is worth sitting in his number one system, whereas the DigiOne is not worth it...

 

For someone who, like most of Mutec MC-3+ USB users (not to mention the Ref-10 users among which I am fortunate to belong), has a DAC with a good S-P/DIF or AES/EBU input, and is sensitive to the benefits of reclocking (better analog presentation of music, deeper and more assertive bass, better general and micro-dynamics, aso), the DigiOne, connected to a Mutec MC-3+ USB, probably is an option to consider. And even on a system which costs more than 20'000 EUR, if adequately powered (will not reopen the debate here), its benefits could be audible.

Just my 2c.

 

I will mention the nice listening report of Confused on the MC-3+ USB and Ref-10 here: https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=4941&pid=72529#pid72529

As he has already posted in another thread, he might not want to cross-post. So I am doing this for him. Congrats @Confused;) 

 

For those of us who are not Linux literate how hard is it to get this up and running? Also is there a good choice for an IOS remote control? I would be using this with a Mutec 3+ USB with AES out.

 

Thanks!


"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

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2 hours ago, mourip said:

 

For those of us who are not Linux literate how hard is it to get this up and running? Also is there a good choice for an IOS remote control? I would be using this with a Mutec 3+ USB with AES out.

 

Thanks!

Hi Mourip,

Assuming that you are ordering your DigiOne with the DietPi software, which is what I recommend, the system will arrive with everything installed.

The interface of the DIgiOne is simple, and is based on a web browser. So you do not have to be skilled in Linux to use it. 

There is only one operation to make in Linux when you receive your box, and this is to select the DigiOne output board for rendering. This requires opening a terminal on your computer, type 2 simple instructions, and select the DigiOne board in the menu. That's about it.

I am prepared to make a short tutorial about this and send it via PM if this is of interest to you. I do not want to spoil this thread with such details.

 

A short point of architecture though: I am keen to keep the processes on the renderer very light. In order to achieve this, I am running Roon in server mode on another computer, which is a NAS, and located in the basement of my home. Therefore, the workload of the renderer (sMS-200 or DigiOne) is very minimal, it is not heating nor producing a lot of EM interferences. I mention this as this might be of importance for you as you did not precise what kind of player you are using.

 

On the MC-3+ USB side, you just have to select the BNC input, as you will have plugged the DigiOne via a BNC cable on this input, instead of the USB one.

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On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 11:26 PM, SwissBear said:

A short update here to say that I have been playing with a small and inexpensive network player, the Allo DigiOne (https://www.allo.com/sparky/digione-player.html), which fits exceptionally well with the Mutec MC-3+ USB.

Instead of outputting the stream in an USB form as major network players are doing (Sonore µ-rendu and Ultra-rendu, SOtM sMS-200 and sMS-200 Ultra), the DigiOne is producing an S-P/DIF stream, ie already 'clocked' with a relatively high precision clock.

Connected to the Mutec MC-3+ USB with a 75 Ohm BNC cable, this small and inexpensive player makes a very good combination for reclocking.

A precaution though: to obtain the best results, you should upgrade the stock wall-mart SPSU by a better one, possibly a LPSU if you can afford. This will largely improve the openness in the high frequencies and extend the assertiveness in the bass.

Also, if you elect to use the DietPi software, you can choose to play with the priorities of the Roon RAAT Server in Linux, and get very unique results.

The relatively inexpensiveness of the device makes the trial reasonable. Keep us posted ;)

I look forward to reading your conclusion to this test.  DigiOne a match for your SOtM kit as a feed to the Mutec?  That would be an interesting result!  Keep us posted!

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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23 minutes ago, Confused said:

I look forward to reading your conclusion to this test.  DigiOne a match for your SOtM kit as a feed to the Mutec?  That would be an interesting result!  Keep us posted!

You probably need to burn your SOtM gear and enjoy it for a while before making the test...

 

But, depending on the kind of music you are listening to, you might be missing, at some point, a kind of 'full body' which was given by the µ-rendu in the lower and medium range. This is true on certain performances of clarinette, cello, double bass , or some electric guitar / bass solos...

 

Some people are sorting this out by adding an IsoRegen to the chain, but this is one additional PSU, and as Romaz once described, this needs to be upgraded by SOtM to have the full flavour. Another option is to try the DIgiOne, which offers a much fuller body to the music. As I already wrote, it enhances the effects of the MC-3+ USB, a little bit like if you had two of them, for a much cheaper price. The transients of some piano tones or the execution of the 3rd mouvement of the 8th symphony of Shostakovich is very different with this combination.

 

The very high frequencies might seem a little less transparent at the very beginning. But you need to burn the small computer for sometime (some say 200 hours) before you can judge if you are missing the "ethereal" colour of the music rendered by the sMS-200 Ultra.

 

Depending on your budget, at 200 USD, this is not such an expensive trial. You can use one of your 75 Ohm BNC cables to connect it and the sPS-500 to cleanly power it at 5V. A no brainer for me, once you will have exhausted the pleasure and the enjoyment of the gears you just received and that I would not want to spoil...

 

Apologies for the wrong timing ;)

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A short update here. When I wrote my enthusiastic thread about this DigiOne, I just had spent some days listening to it on a nice system (darTZeel LHC-208 + Voxativ Zeth), which is my secondary system. And the Digione was doing very well compared to the sMS-200 I have on this system.

When I returned to my main (Devialet D1000 + B&W 802D3) system early this week, I installed a new DigiOne and started listening to it. I left it some time to break in.

The results on this much more detailed system are quite different from my secondary system. On this one, the transparency and detailed restitution of high frequencies with the DigiOne is significantly lower than with my sMS-200 Ultra. On an album like this one (https://www.channelclassics.com/catalogue/23906-Quartets-kv370-kv421-Sonata-kv377/), the difference is very audible.

So the hierarchy between the different devices is well kept as HB had stated in his report. Nothing to add. Case closed ;) 

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23 minutes ago, SwissBear said:

A short update here. When I wrote my enthusiastic thread about this DigiOne, I just had spent some days listening to it on a nice system (darTZeel LHC-208 + Voxativ Zeth), which is my secondary system. And the Digione was doing very well compared to the sMS-200 I have on this system.

When I returned to my main (Devialet D1000 + B&W 802D3) system early this week, I installed a new DigiOne and started listening to it. I left it some time to break in.

The results on this much more detailed system are quite different from my secondary system. On this one, the transparency and detailed restitution of high frequencies with the DigiOne is significantly lower than with my sMS-200 Ultra. On an album like this one (https://www.channelclassics.com/catalogue/23906-Quartets-kv370-kv421-Sonata-kv377/), the difference is very audible.

So the hierarchy between the different devices is well kept as HB had stated in his report. Nothing to add. Case closed ;) 

So it looks like you can withdraw your appology in your previous post.?

 

Thanks for the update!

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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As I previously mentioned on other threads...I went from SB Touch to sMS-200 to DigiOne. For me the sMS-200 with stock PSU was wow! at first but then began to find it sounded somewhat ''hollow''. I sold it after a week or so and never bothered to upgrade the PSU (mistake?).

I then ordered the DigiOne, figuring at the price, I didn't have much to lose. I couldn't compare it A/B to the sMS-200 but it was a definite improvement over the SB Touch with 5V/2.5A CIAudio PSU. My newly acquired Paul Hynes 5V/3A brings it another step up the SQ ladder.

I ran out of patience trying to get pre-installed Volumio to work on my network but got piCorePlayer/LMS up and running in a few minutes.

I don't intend on changing this part of my setup for quite a while as I suspect I'd need to spend at least X5 to obtain a marginal improvement (if any).

 

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On 2/24/2018 at 12:26 AM, SwissBear said:

Hi Everyone,

 

I recently made the acquisition of a small player, an Allo DigiOne (https://www.allo.com/sparky/digione-player.html), which I found interesting in connection with my existing reclocker Mutec MC-3+ USB and my Mutec Ref-10.

What is relatively unique with this player is the capability it has to produce a stream of music in the form of S-P/DIF in the first place, instead of producing a more common USB music stream.

S-P/DIF is a synchronous protocols, which embeds, in the stream, the musical information together with the timing reference of the music. It is therefore to be opposed to asynchronous protocols like USB, which do not include any timing reference, the musical data being buffered at the DAC prior to being processed with the DAC's clock as a timing reference. 

These synchronous protocols (S-P/DIF here) have opened the door to some interesting processing techniques, called 'reclocking', during which the music stream is plugged onto a improved timing reference provided by a more stable clock ie a reclocker. Mutec MC-3+ and MC-3+ USB are such devices. In addition to this, a new generation of very stable clocks has emerged, the first of them the Mutec Ref-10, which goal is to further improve the stability of the timing signal used for reclocking.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the interaction and complementarity of these two items (S-P/DIF player) and reclocker (Mutec MC-3+ USB).

 

Here is an explanation of the data conversion process of the DigiOne: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/allo-digione-board/18564/128

 

In practice, connected to the Mutec MC-3+ USB with a 75 Ohm BNC cable, this small and inexpensive player makes a very good combination.

A precaution though: to obtain the best results, you should upgrade the stock wall wart SPSU by a better one, possibly a LPSU if you can afford. This will largely improve the openness in the high frequencies and extend the assertiveness in the bass.

Also, if you elect to use the DietPi software, you can choose to play with the priorities of the Roon RAAT Server in Linux, and get very unique results.

The relatively inexpensiveness of the device makes the trial reasonable. Keep us posted ;)

Interesting thread, thanks! I have played around with Allo DigiOne, Schiit Eitr, Mutec MC-3+ USB as possible replacements for the M2Tech hiFace Evo that I have been using for a few years. I have reported my findings in the respective threads.

 

Here, I would like to comment on the effect of reclocking on S/PDIF streams. The common wisdom seems to be that DACs with S/PDIF inputs directly use the clocking information implicit in the input stream to control the digital to analogue conversion. From this it follows that the clocking of the incoming stream should be as accurate as possible and "good"  USB to S/PDIF or I2S to S/PDIF interfaces like the Eitr, the MC-3+ USB or the DigiOne can help achieving this goal. Since the MC-3+ USB is also a S/PDIF to S/PDIF reclocker, it makes sense to try a chain DigiOne -> MC-3+ USB in front of the DAC.

 

There is an issue, however. Not all S/PDIF DACs use the clocking implicit in the incoming stream directly. The old Naim DAC, for example, uses only an estimate of the incoming clocking to select an internal clock. This internal clock then overrides the clocking of the S/PDIF stream and controls the digital to analogue conversion,  see    https://www.naimaudio.com/sites/default/files/pro. ducts/downloads/files/naim_dac_august_2009.pdf. In this case, it is not obvious that it is worth improving the clocking of the incoming stream beyond what is needed for the DAC to obtain a sound estimate. I can imagine that other more recent S/PDIF DACs implement similar solutions. Of course, there might be many DACs that directly use the clocking of the incoming stream and for these it makes sense to invest in the upstream clocking.

 

My experience with  DigiOne, Eitr and MC-3+ USB has been somehow disappointing. None of these devices is an obvious improvement over my M2Tech. The Eitr is hardly distinguishable from the M2Tech (powered by a Teddy Pardo LPSU). The DigiOne is perhaps slightly more engaging but the high tones tend to be a little bit tiring. I have returned the MC-3+ USB which to me didn't sound as good as either the M2Tech or as the Eitr.    

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21 hours ago, nbpf said:

There is an issue, however. Not all S/PDIF DACs use the clocking implicit in the incoming stream directly. The old Naim DAC, for example, uses only an estimate of the incoming clocking to select an internal clock. This internal clock then overrides the clocking of the S/PDIF stream and controls the digital to analogue conversion,  see    https://www.naimaudio.com/sites/default/files/pro. ducts/downloads/files/naim_dac_august_2009.pdf. In this case, it is not obvious that it is worth improving the clocking of the incoming stream beyond what is needed for the DAC to obtain a sound estimate. I can imagine that other more recent S/PDIF DACs implement similar solutions. Of course, there might be many DACs that directly use the clocking of the incoming stream and for these it makes sense to invest in the upstream clocking.

Obviously, everyone needs to check whether his/her own DAC benefits from the S-P/DIF clock improvement. This can be done theoretically, asking the DAC's manufacturer, or empirically, trying a reclocker and evaluating for oneself whether the effect is positive of not.

In the case of my DAC, which is integrated into an amplifier (Devialet), the addition of a Mutec MC-3+ USB in the chain has been reported as positive by many contributors.

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22 hours ago, nbpf said:

Interesting thread, thanks! I have played around with Allo DigiOne, Schiit Eitr, Mutec MC-3+ USB as possible replacements for the M2Tech hiFace Evo that I have been using for a few years. I have reported my findings in the respective threads.

 

Here, I would like to comment on the effect of reclocking on S/PDIF streams. The common wisdom seems to be that DACs with S/PDIF inputs directly use the clocking information implicit in the input stream to control the digital to analogue conversion. From this it follows that the clocking of the incoming stream should be as accurate as possible and "good"  USB to S/PDIF or I2S to S/PDIF interfaces like the Eitr, the MC-3+ USB or the DigiOne can help achieving this goal. Since the MC-3+ USB is also a S/PDIF to S/PDIF reclocker, it makes sense to try a chain DigiOne -> MC-3+ USB in front of the DAC.

 

There is an issue, however. Not all S/PDIF DACs use the clocking implicit in the incoming stream directly. The old Naim DAC, for example, uses only an estimate of the incoming clocking to select an internal clock. This internal clock then overrides the clocking of the S/PDIF stream and controls the digital to analogue conversion,  see    https://www.naimaudio.com/sites/default/files/pro. ducts/downloads/files/naim_dac_august_2009.pdf. In this case, it is not obvious that it is worth improving the clocking of the incoming stream beyond what is needed for the DAC to obtain a sound estimate. I can imagine that other more recent S/PDIF DACs implement similar solutions. Of course, there might be many DACs that directly use the clocking of the incoming stream and for these it makes sense to invest in the upstream clocking.

 

My experience with  DigiOne, Eitr and MC-3+ USB has been somehow disappointing. None of these devices is an obvious improvement over my M2Tech. The Eitr is hardly distinguishable from the M2Tech (powered by a Teddy Pardo LPSU). The DigiOne is perhaps slightly more engaging but the high tones tend to be a little bit tiring. I have returned the MC-3+ USB which to me didn't sound as good as either the M2Tech or as the Eitr.    

Sounds symptomatic of a weak source solution.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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3 hours ago, SwissBear said:

Obviously, everyone needs to check whether his/her own DAC benefits from the S-P/DIF clock improvement. This can be done theoretically, asking the DAC's manufacturer, or empirically, trying a reclocker and evaluating for oneself whether the effect is positive of not.

In the case of my DAC, which is integrated into an amplifier (Devialet), the addition of a Mutec MC-3+ USB in the chain has been reported as positive by many contributors.

In my system, the Mutec had the positive effect that the background was darker. However, my impression was that the low and the high frequencies were emphasized at the cost of the mid range in comparison with the M2Tech and with the Eitr. I found this effect a bit unnatural and returned the Mutec. Perhaps there was something wrong with the device and I will give it another try. For the time being, I am trying to better understand the differences between DigiOne, Eitr and M2Tech. I should probably also demo a server with audiophile USB and/or S/PDIF outputs but ... which one?     

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14 hours ago, nbpf said:

What precisely does sound symptomatic of a weak source solution? Thanks, nbpf

The lack of meaningful audible differences when you tried different converters. If the source potential is there to begin with  the converter can make a significant improvement. But you can't make a weak source sound meaningfully better...just different.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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19 hours ago, davide256 said:

The lack of meaningful audible differences when you tried different converters. If the source potential is there to begin with  the converter can make a significant improvement. But you can't make a weak source sound meaningfully better...just different.

Thanks for the clarification! The source of the DigiOne was obviously a Raspberry Pi. I have used model 3, powered by an ifi iPower SMPS. The source of the Mutec, of the Eitr and of the M2Tech was a FitPC3 powered by a Teddy Pardo LPSU. Any suggestion on how to improve? Would it make sense to have a tx-USBultra between the FitPC3 and the Mutec/Eitr/M2Tech interfaces?

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I'm going to suggest you give this source setup a whirl, unless you have a more powerful PC at your disposal?

 

1. Use the FITPC3 as  network server for your media drives to electrically isolate the renderer device;  Minimserver is a must as the media server app

2. Use the Pi3/DigiOne as your UPNP/DLNA renderer

 

if the FITPC3 is running Windows,  Fidelizer helps a great deal in taming the OS processes that degrade audio, even with network servers.

this still leaves you subject to some optimization pains that Ethernet  has but it's far easier to get better sound right out of the box with Minimserver and UPNP/DLNA

than it is with other source solutions.

 

If you have a PC powerful enough to run Roon core, using Roon with its RAAT protocol over Ethernet to a Roon enabled endpoint is better yet, takes Ethernet/UPNP optimization out of the equation leaving only server and end point optimizations to consider. However in my experience the benefits from this do seem to have dependency on the design of the renderer hardware solution. 

 

BTB, in a networked setup, you want the renderer to have the cleanest power supply, server isn't as important since data remains in data form. At the renderer where SPDIF D/A conversion occurs is where power supply really matters.

 

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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3 hours ago, davide256 said:

I'm going to suggest you give this source setup a whirl, unless you have a more powerful PC at your disposal?

 

1. Use the FITPC3 as  network server for your media drives to electrically isolate the renderer device;  Minimserver is a must as the media server app

2. Use the Pi3/DigiOne as your UPNP/DLNA renderer

 

if the FITPC3 is running Windows,  Fidelizer helps a great deal in taming the OS processes that degrade audio, even with network servers.

this still leaves you subject to some optimization pains that Ethernet  has but it's far easier to get better sound right out of the box with Minimserver and UPNP/DLNA

than it is with other source solutions.

 

If you have a PC powerful enough to run Roon core, using Roon with its RAAT protocol over Ethernet to a Roon enabled endpoint is better yet, takes Ethernet/UPNP optimization out of the equation leaving only server and end point optimizations to consider. However in my experience the benefits from this do seem to have dependency on the design of the renderer hardware solution. 

 

BTB, in a networked setup, you want the renderer to have the cleanest power supply, server isn't as important since data remains in data form. At the renderer where SPDIF D/A conversion occurs is where power supply really matters.

 

I very much agree with that recommendation. I would like to add that you need to have a clear view of your 'strategy' in terms of DAC's input. There is no point IMO to try an S-P/DIF renderer if your DAC's S-P/DIF input does not process timing signals properly, or if it is not supposed to be the best input of the DAC. You could try an USB renderer and be very happy with that too.

So 2 possible routes to the DAC:

- S-P/DIF (or AES/EBU) ie synchronous protocols with your M2Tech interface or a Mutec MC-3+ USB...

- USB ie asynchronous through an Allo USBridge renderer or Sonore µ-rendu or SOtM sMS-200...

 

Finally, what was possibly difficult for you might have been the addition of DigiOne + Mutec or M2Tech. You can also mix the routes and go USB for the renderer and then S-P/DIF for the interface. You would then get a lighter reclocking effect, which is more conform to your habits/expectations.

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7 hours ago, davide256 said:

I'm going to suggest you give this source setup a whirl, unless you have a more powerful PC at your disposal?

 

1. Use the FITPC3 as  network server for your media drives to electrically isolate the renderer device;  Minimserver is a must as the media server app

2. Use the Pi3/DigiOne as your UPNP/DLNA renderer

 

if the FITPC3 is running Windows,  Fidelizer helps a great deal in taming the OS processes that degrade audio, even with network servers.

this still leaves you subject to some optimization pains that Ethernet  has but it's far easier to get better sound right out of the box with Minimserver and UPNP/DLNA

than it is with other source solutions.

 

If you have a PC powerful enough to run Roon core, using Roon with its RAAT protocol over Ethernet to a Roon enabled endpoint is better yet, takes Ethernet/UPNP optimization out of the equation leaving only server and end point optimizations to consider. However in my experience the benefits from this do seem to have dependency on the design of the renderer hardware solution. 

 

BTB, in a networked setup, you want the renderer to have the cleanest power supply, server isn't as important since data remains in data form. At the renderer where SPDIF D/A conversion occurs is where power supply really matters.

 

Both the FitPC3 and the Pi3 currently run MinimServer + upmpdcli under a minimal Debian (no X11, no HDMI output, only a very basic system) and are controlled (with Bubble UPnP and Linn Kazoo) via wireless. I have another Pi directly connected to the router. This Pi is also running a MinimServer instance, mainly for streaming to the kitchen. Thus, I should be able to perform the test that you suggest by running a long ethernet cable from the router to the living room and into a switch. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll report my findings! 

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4 hours ago, SwissBear said:

I very much agree with that recommendation. I would like to add that you need to have a clear view of your 'strategy' in terms of DAC's input. There is no point IMO to try an S-P/DIF renderer if your DAC's S-P/DIF input does not process timing signals properly, or if it is not supposed to be the best input of the DAC. You could try an USB renderer and be very happy with that too.

So 2 possible routes to the DAC:

- S-P/DIF (or AES/EBU) ie synchronous protocols with your M2Tech interface or a Mutec MC-3+ USB...

- USB ie asynchronous through an Allo USBridge renderer or Sonore µ-rendu or SOtM sMS-200...

 

Finally, what was possibly difficult for you might have been the addition of DigiOne + Mutec or M2Tech. You can also mix the routes and go USB for the renderer and then S-P/DIF for the interface. You would then get a lighter reclocking effect, which is more conform to your habits/expectations.

Thanks SwissBear, the Naim DAC only supports S/PDIF inputs. I would not argue that it does not process timing signals properly, the design is meant to make the device insensitive to clocking artifacts in the S/PDIF stream. Of course, it is conceivable that the internal clocks of the Naim DAC are less accurate than the clocking that they actually override. But this is a possibility, not a fact. Anyway, I have no alternative there: the DAC needs a S/PDIF signal. Ideally, I would buy a server + renderer with good S/PDIF outputs. My problem is that I absolutely need MinimServer and most devices with (allegedly) good S/PDIF outputs do not support MinimServer (Naim Core, Aurender, etc.). I also would like to have control over the OS of the server. Another constraint is that I cannot run a wired connection between the router and the living room. Hence my current setup. I will run a test in which the RPi+DigiOne acts as a pure network player and report my findings. 

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