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The new generation UltraCap LPS-1.2: USER IMPRESSIONS and QUESTIONS thread


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28 minutes ago, sahmen said:

Okay, I have an LPS-1 currently paired with my Ultrarendu, and I am thinking of replacing it with the LPS-1.2.  It would seem, from many of the reviews I have read on this thread, that the replacement is sonically beneficial and that the upgrade is worth it, so I am not going to inquire about that...   But I have a question...

 

I currently use a 2017 TeraDak DC-30W-TOUCH DC9V 2A as the energizing power supply for my LPS-1.  Can I continue to use the same unit to energize the LPS 1.2?

 

Okay, I actually have a second question :  I got a little greedy about the LPS-1 and wound up getting about 3 of them before the 1.2s came out.  Now that the LPS-1.2 is out and seems to offer such an attractive upgrade, I am feeling a little "stuck" with my previous 3 LPS-1s, and wouldn't mind upgrading them at all, if  Uptone Audio offers an upgrade program.  If they do and it is a fair one, I wouldn't mind using that service, as opposed to trying to sell off my three LPS-1s, before upgrading.

 

Incidentally, I do hate selling on e-bay.

subscribed members can sell on CA. That's a better way than "Fleabay"

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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14 minutes ago, sahmen said:

I currently use a 2017 TeraDak DC-30W-TOUCH DC9V 2A as the energizing power supply for my LPS-1.  Can I continue to use the same unit to energize the LPS 1.2?

 

Sorry, but the LPS-1.2 requires the "emerging"/charging supply to be capable of 36 watts (at least if you want to get into the high-current charge mode--required if the draw on the LPS-1.2 output is 0.5A or above).  Your 9V/2A TeraDak is just 18W.  

Charge voltage range for the LPS-1.2 is wider than for the original LPS-1.  7.5V/4.8A, 9V/4A, 12V/3A, 18V/2A, 24V/1.5--you can see how all those multiply to 36W.

 

14 minutes ago, sahmen said:

Okay, I actually have a second question :  I got a little greedy about the LPS-1 and wound up getting about 3 of them before the 1.2s came out.  Now that the LPS-1.2 is out and seems to offer such an attractive upgrade, I am feeling a little "stuck" with my previous 3 LPS-1s, and wouldn't mind upgrading them at all, if  Uptone Audio offers an upgrade program.  If they do and it is a fair one, I wouldn't mind using that service, as opposed to trying to sell off my three LPS-1s, before upgrading.

 

First off, a very big thank you (and really to all) for your multiple purchases of the still-very-fine LPS-1!

During the long period between when we announced the new model and were sold out of the original (in fact over 100 people that were on back-order for the original received the new model), I thought long and hard about how we might offer an upgrade path.  We are always thinking of our clients, we are not driven by greed, and we are blessed with success due to the desirability and  value of our products.  The question of course came up early on, and I took my normal open approach and posted a detailed walk-through of the upgrade-path dilemma (it's a dilemma in part because it requires not just a new board, but a new case and the new charger).  Here is the link to that post:

 

That said, have recently made one or two upgrade offers privately.  Since I stupidly sold every last LPS-1--and we are not going back to run those boards again--the only boards we have for repairs in case someone's LPS-1 dies are from those we take in trade.  So I like to keep one-to-three on the shelf.  While we can't offer you an upgrade on all three of your LPS-1s at this time (and you might not even like the offer I make you), feel free to contact me privately about it.  

 

Have a lovely weekend everyone,

--Alex C.

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29 minutes ago, sahmen said:

One more thing:  the audio chain I'm thinking about serving with the 1.2 is curently:

 

Ultrarendu as Roon endpoint (Powered by LPS-1, energized by Teradak PS) ==>> Yggdrasil (USB5, awaiting upgrade to Analog 2)

 

If anyone has the experience of the sonic benefits of an LPS-1.2 upgrade in such a chain, could you kindly share your impressions?

 

Hi Patrick:

Well I do not think you need to look very far up-thread here to find a couple of people who directly compared LPS-1 vs. LPS-1.2 on an ultraRendu.

Lately people have been telling us we should have called the new generation the LPS-2 as their experience tells them it is WAY more than just a "point two" upgrade!  In hindsight they are correct.  I was just being cute as it is still a 1A (well 1.1A) unit with one output, but now going to 12V.  So in the pea-sized segment of brain that thinks about marketing, LPS-1.2 made sense.  ?

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2 hours ago, sahmen said:

One more thing:  the audio chain I'm thinking about serving with the 1.2 is curently:

 

Ultrarendu as Roon endpoint (Powered by LPS-1, energized by Teradak PS) ==>> Yggdrasil (USB5, awaiting upgrade to Analog 2)

 

If anyone has the experience of the sonic benefits of an LPS-1.2 upgrade in such a chain, could you kindly share your impressions?

 

Thanks.

 

Patrick

 

Hi Patrick,  

 

I have the UltraRendu (Roon) and Yggy Analog 2.  I upgraded from LPS-1 to LPS-1.2.  My incoherent ramblings can be found on Page 10 of this thread.

 

Speaker Room: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Pacific 2 | Viva Linea | Constellation Inspiration Stereo 1.0 | FinkTeam Kim | Revel subs  

Office Headphone System: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Golden Gate 3 | Viva Egoista | Abyss AB1266 Phi TC 

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3 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Hi Patrick,  

 

I have the UltraRendu (Roon) and Yggy Analog 2.  I upgraded from LPS-1 to LPS-1.2.  My incoherent ramblings can be found on Page 10 of this thread.

 

 

Thanks Blake:

 

That was very useful and informative to me.

 

Patrick

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On 7/14/2018 at 1:36 PM, Superdad said:

 

Sorry, but the LPS-1.2 requires the "emerging"/charging supply to be capable of 36 watts (at least if you want to get into the high-current charge mode--required if the draw on the LPS-1.2 output is 0.5A or above).  Your 9V/2A TeraDak is just 18W.  

Charge voltage range for the LPS-1.2 is wider than for the original LPS-1.  7.5V/4.8A, 9V/4A, 12V/3A, 18V/2A, 24V/1.5--you can see how all those multiply to 36W.  The Meanwell SMPS that ships with the LPS-1.2 will have to do for now, and in the meantime.

 

 

 

 

Okay, the following power supplies are all spec'ed at 12V/3A, and I hope they'll all work for the LPS-1.2 I just purchased, should I decide to go that route again (of energizing the LPS 1.2, with another external PS).  

 

1. TeraDak HiFi DC 12V 3A linear power supply hard disk box power supply

 

2. TeraDak DC-60W 12V/3A power source PSU Linear Power Supply

 

3. Teradak DC-60W 12V / 3A computer hard drive Linear power supply

 

4. Teradak DC12V / 3A Dspeaker anti-mode 2.0 bass management Linear power supply

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1 hour ago, sahmen said:

Okay, the following power supplies are all spec'ed at 12V/3A, and I hope they'll all work for the LPS-1.2 I just purchased, should I decide to go that route again (of energizing the LPS 1.2, with another external PS).  

 

Yes, any of those 12V/3A units should work fine (though I don’t know why Teradak refers to them as 60W supplies—12V * 3A = 36W).

Just don’t expect any sonic improvement from using an LPS to charge an UltraCap supply.  It is always charging the bank of ultracaps that is completely disconnected and isolated from the output—the entire point of our sophisticated, bank-alternating design. 9_9

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8 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Yes, any of those 12V/3A units should work fine (though I don’t know why Teradak refers to them as 60W supplies—12V * 3A = 36W).

Just don’t expect any sonic improvement from using an LPS to charge an UltraCap supply.  It is always charging the bank of ultracaps that is completely disconnected and isolated from the output—the entire point of our sophisticated, bank-alternating design. 9_9

Thanks for confirming those Teradaks, Superdad!  Although, If no sonic improvements are to be had from this operation, then I'd rather not bother with them at all.  The Meanwell SMPS that normally comes with the LPS-1.2 will have to suffice. ☺️

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1 hour ago, sahmen said:

Thanks for confirming those Teradaks, Superdad!  Although, If no sonic improvements are to be had from this operation, then I'd rather not bother with them at all.  The Meanwell SMPS that normally comes with the LPS-1.2 will have to suffice. ☺️

 

Sure, though the LPS-1.2 does not come with a Mean Well SMPS (that was the 22W supply that came with the original LPS-1).  The LPS-1.2 comes with a new UpTone-branded 7.5V/4.8A/36W unit with internal ground-shunt.  

UpTone_4.8A_charger.thumb.JPG.20cf62e5555f651cc7bda5c2ff26fda1.JPG

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53 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Sure, though the LPS-1.2 does not come with a Mean Well SMPS (that was the 22W supply that came with the original LPS-1).  The LPS-1.2 comes with a new UpTone-branded 7.5V/4.8A/36W unit with internal ground-shunt.  

UpTone_4.8A_charger.thumb.JPG.20cf62e5555f651cc7bda5c2ff26fda1.JPG

Got it.  This newer unit, will do for me.

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1 hour ago, sahmen said:

Thanks for confirming those Teradaks, Superdad!  Although, If no sonic improvements are to be had from this operation, then I'd rather not bother with them at all.  The Meanwell SMPS that normally comes with the LPS-1.2 will have to suffice. ☺️

IME removing all smps from audio chain will aid your system as a whole since most smps have negative effect on power cuircuits elsewhere in audio gear (i.e.: preamps especially). Clean power is a must. It is the most important component and most difficult to attain.

 

BR, Andrej

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8 minutes ago, azupan75 said:

IME removing all smps from audio chain will aid your system as a whole since most smps have negative effect on power cuircuits elsewhere in audio gear (i.e.: preamps especially). Clean power is a must. It is the most important component and most difficult to attain.

 

BR, Andrej

Understood! Incidentally, that is currently no issue in my Ultrarendu based reference 2-channel system.  It might become one, when I have to use Iso-regen in conjunction with my microrendu in a different system, because the microrendu will most likely be powered by one of my LPS-1s, and I might be tempted to use the default stock SMPS with the Iso-Regen.

 

I wonder whether there is a good workaround for this, apart from the possible option of using 2 LPS-1 units:  one each for the microrendu and the iso-regen.  I have read something about using one LPS-1 unit to power both microrendu and the Iso-regen with the help of a Y cable, but, unless I am mistaken, that approach does not seem to work well in all cases.

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I succesfully used lps-1 to power multiple units. Not so with lps -1.2. I tried and had to replace the unit due to failure. Yet won’t experiment multiple powering again with the replacement unit. Lps-1 I fully trust, with lps -1.2  I’m staying on the safe side. Just my experience. With others may differ.

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51 minutes ago, azupan75 said:

I succesfully used lps-1 to power multiple units. Not so with lps -1.2. I tried and had to replace the unit due to failure. Yet won’t experiment multiple powering again with the replacement unit. Lps-1 I fully trust, with lps -1.2  I’m staying on the safe side. Just my experience. With others may differ.

There is a known issue with the LPS-1.2 and the microRendu. If the DC cable between the microRendu and the LPS-1.2 is already connected on both sides and then you turn on the LPS-1.2 the microRendu will not power up. If powering a microRendu from an LPS-1.2 you need to power up the LPS-1.2 first (wait until the LED is green), THEN connect the DC cable to the microRendu. This just happenes with this particular combination, the UltraRendu doesn't have the problem and an LPS-1 doesn't have this problem with the microRendu.

 

The issue is caused by the LT3045s used on the output of the LPS-1.2, they have a long turn on ramp time (about 1/3 of a second), the microRendu does not like this. The LPS-1 has a shorter ramp time (1/10 of a second) which doesn't seem to cause the problem. The UltraRendu has a different internal power network which doesn't mind the slow turn on ramp of the LPS-1.2.

 

I have used the LPS-1.2 extensively powering multiple devices in parallel it works fine, as long as the above issue with the microRendu is taken into account. SO there is not an "inherent" issue with driving multiple loads. Of course the total load has to fit within the 1.1A capability of the LPS-1.2 (same as the LPS-1) and many devices take more current at startup so that can sometimes cause issues, but that is the same for the LPS-1.

 

There ARE small differences from unit to unit, (for both LPS-1 and LPS-1.2) so some units might be able to handle 1.18A and other "only" 1.12A so it is possible to have a total startup load that falls in this range and your LPS-1 is a unit that can handle 1.18A and the LPS-1.2 can handle 1.12A, and thus  your LPS-1 can handle that particular combination load and your LPS-1.2 cannot, but that is not general issue with "the LPS-1.2 cannot handle multiple loads",  just the normal manufacturing spread of units.

 

If you have a situation where an LPS-1 can handle  a certain set of multiple loads and the LPS-1.2 cannot, it is most likely one of these two scenarios.

 

John S.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

There is a known issue with the LPS-1.2 and the microRendu. If the DC cable between the microRendu and the LPS-1.2 is already connected on both sides and then you turn on the LPS-1.2 the microRendu will not power up. If powering a microRendu from an LPS-1.2 you need to power up the LPS-1.2 first (wait until the LED is green), THEN connect the DC cable to the microRendu. This just happenes with this particular combination, the UltraRendu doesn't have the problem and an LPS-1 doesn't have this problem with the microRendu.

 

The issue is caused by the LT3045s used on the output of the LPS-1.2, they have a long turn on ramp time (about 1/3 of a second), the microRendu does not like this. The LPS-1 has a shorter ramp time (1/10 of a second) which doesn't seem to cause the problem. The UltraRendu has a different internal power network which doesn't mind the slow turn on ramp of the LPS-1.2.

 

I have used the LPS-1.2 extensively powering multiple devices in parallel it works fine, as long as the above issue with the microRendu is taken into account. SO there is not an "inherent" issue with driving multiple loads. Of course the total load has to fit within the 1.1A capability of the LPS-1.2 (same as the LPS-1) and many devices take more current at startup so that can sometimes cause issues, but that is the same for the LPS-1.

 

There ARE small differences from unit to unit, (for both LPS-1 and LPS-1.2) so some units might be able to handle 1.18A and other "only" 1.12A so it is possible to have a total startup load that falls in this range and your LPS-1 is a unit that can handle 1.18A and the LPS-1.2 can handle 1.12A, and thus  your LPS-1 can handle that particular combination load and your LPS-1.2 cannot, but that is not general issue with "the LPS-1.2 cannot handle multiple loads",  just the normal manufacturing spread of units.

 

If you have a situation where an LPS-1 can handle  a certain set of multiple loads and the LPS-1.2 cannot, it is most likely one of these two scenarios.

 

John S.

 

 

 

John:  This is very informative and helpful, but I have one related question.  Should one expect Sound quality to take a hit (i.e. be compromised in any way), when one LPS-1 is used to power two components in this way (in my case, a microrendu and an Iso-regen), as opposed to using 2 LPS-1 units, with one dedicated to each component?

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1 minute ago, sahmen said:

 

John:  This is very informative and helpful, but I have one related question.  Should one expect Sound quality to take a hit (i.e. be compromised in any way), when one LPS-1 is used to power two components in this way (in my case, a microrendu and an Iso-regen), as opposed to using 2 LPS-1 units, with one dedicated to each component?

Whenever you have a single supply powering two loads you can have a situation where changes in load current from one device cause a small change in voltage on the supply output, and those voltage changes are seen by both devices powered by the supply. So yes it is always possible powering each device with its own supply might sound better than both off the same supply, but the LPS-1.2 has an extremely low output impedance, so any voltage change due to load current changes are going to be VERY small. Thus the LPS-1.2 is probably one of the best supplies out there for powering multiple loads (as long as the combination doesn't go over 1.1A)

 

There is a special issue with the ISO REGEN. It contains an isolation circuit whose purpose in life is to prevent leakage current from traveling through a USB cable. If you power the ISO REGEN and the upstream device from the same power supply you are bypassing this isolation. This may or may not be an issue depending on what is driving the ISO REGEN and how things in your system are connected. It is hard to make a determination without knowing the details of the system. Note: the isolation is not the ONLY reason for an ISO REGEN, even with the isolation bypassed it can still significantly improve your USB signal.

 

John S.

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2 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Whenever you have a single supply powering two loads you can have a situation where changes in load current from one device cause a small change in voltage on the supply output, and those voltage changes are seen by both devices powered by the supply. So yes it is always possible powering each device with its own supply might sound better than both off the same supply, but the LPS-1.2 has an extremely low output impedance, so any voltage change due to load current changes are going to be VERY small. Thus the LPS-1.2 is probably one of the best supplies out there for powering multiple loads (as long as the combination doesn't go over 1.1A)

 

There is a special issue with the ISO REGEN. It contains an isolation circuit whose purpose in life is to prevent leakage current from traveling through a USB cable. If you power the ISO REGEN and the upstream device from the same power supply you are bypassing this isolation. This may or may not be an issue depending on what is driving the ISO REGEN and how things in your system are connected. It is hard to make a determination without knowing the details of the system. Note: the isolation is not the ONLY reason for an ISO REGEN, even with the isolation bypassed it can still significantly improve your USB signal.

 

John S.

Hi John,

 

For the avoidance of doubt, in this context does upstream device mean the device connected to the female Usb B input side of the ISO Regen?

 

Thanks,

 

Larry

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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3 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Whenever you have a single supply powering two loads you can have a situation where changes in load current from one device cause a small change in voltage on the supply output, and those voltage changes are seen by both devices powered by the supply. So yes it is always possible powering each device with its own supply might sound better than both off the same supply, but the LPS-1.2 has an extremely low output impedance, so any voltage change due to load current changes are going to be VERY small. Thus the LPS-1.2 is probably one of the best supplies out there for powering multiple loads (as long as the combination doesn't go over 1.1A)

 

There is a special issue with the ISO REGEN. It contains an isolation circuit whose purpose in life is to prevent leakage current from traveling through a USB cable. If you power the ISO REGEN and the upstream device from the same power supply you are bypassing this isolation. This may or may not be an issue depending on what is driving the ISO REGEN and how things in your system are connected. It is hard to make a determination without knowing the details of the system. Note: the isolation is not the ONLY reason for an ISO REGEN, even with the isolation bypassed it can still significantly improve your USB signal.

 

John S.

So one could say that 2 loads per PS is okay, but that 1 load per PS ensures optimization in performance of the attached component?  I can certainly live with that. Thanks.

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4 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Whenever you have a single supply powering two loads you can have a situation where changes in load current from one device cause a small change in voltage on the supply output, and those voltage changes are seen by both devices powered by the supply. So yes it is always possible powering each device with its own supply might sound better than both off the same supply, but the LPS-1.2 has an extremely low output impedance, so any voltage change due to load current changes are going to be VERY small. Thus the LPS-1.2 is probably one of the best supplies out there for powering multiple loads (as long as the combination doesn't go over 1.1A)

 

There is a special issue with the ISO REGEN. It contains an isolation circuit whose purpose in life is to prevent leakage current from traveling through a USB cable. If you power the ISO REGEN and the upstream device from the same power supply you are bypassing this isolation. This may or may not be an issue depending on what is driving the ISO REGEN and how things in your system are connected. It is hard to make a determination without knowing the details of the system. Note: the isolation is not the ONLY reason for an ISO REGEN, even with the isolation bypassed it can still significantly improve your USB signal.

 

John S.

Hi John

 

If you are powering both the ISO REGEN and an upstream device (as discussed above using a single LPS-1.2) but this time have (for instance) two ldovr LT3045 regs (http://www.ldovr.com/product-p/lt3045-m.htm) after the LPS-1.2 (with the LPS-1.2 feeding both ldovr regs).

Would this setup now provide the necessary isolation to prevent leakage currents as the ISO REGEN and the other device now have their own separate ldovr power supplies or doesn't it work like this?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, tims said:

Hi John

 

If you are powering both the ISO REGEN and an upstream device (as discussed above using a single LPS-1.2) but this time have (for instance) two ldovr LT3045 regs (http://www.ldovr.com/product-p/lt3045-m.htm) after the LPS-1.2 (with the LPS-1.2 feeding both ldovr regs).

Would this setup now provide the necessary isolation to prevent leakage currents as the ISO REGEN and the other device now have their own separate ldovr power supplies or doesn't it work like this?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, adding regulators does not block leakage current. The leakage current usually travels through the negative connection ("ground"), two regulators connected to the same supply have have their negative inputs connected together and to the single supply output, thus leakage current is free to flow through all of them.

 

A separate LT3045 on each branch WILL isolate noise created by the changing load current from one load showing up on the other, but it will not block leakage current.

 

John S.

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20 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Whenever you have a single supply powering two loads you can have a situation where changes in load current from one device cause a small change in voltage on the supply output, and those voltage changes are seen by both devices powered by the supply. So yes it is always possible powering each device with its own supply might sound better than both off the same supply, but the LPS-1.2 has an extremely low output impedance, so any voltage change due to load current changes are going to be VERY small. Thus the LPS-1.2 is probably one of the best supplies out there for powering multiple loads (as long as the combination doesn't go over 1.1A)

 

There is a special issue with the ISO REGEN. It contains an isolation circuit whose purpose in life is to prevent leakage current from traveling through a USB cable. If you power the ISO REGEN and the upstream device from the same power supply you are bypassing this isolation. This may or may not be an issue depending on what is driving the ISO REGEN and how things in your system are connected. It is hard to make a determination without knowing the details of the system. Note: the isolation is not the ONLY reason for an ISO REGEN, even with the isolation bypassed it can still significantly improve your USB signal.

 

John S.

A question on this configuration: if powering micro or ultraRendu and ISO Regen off the same LPS 1.2, should the switch for ISO Regen to supply 5V be in the off position?

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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