The new generation UltraCap LPS-1.2: USER IMPRESSIONS and QUESTIONS thread

[Geoff1954]

Three questions. Apologies if they are answered elsewhere on this 12 page thread. I read the entire thread some time ago but did not know of these products when I read it, so may not have noticed.

1. Could the LPS 1.2 be used with this DAC?
https://mytekdigital.com/hifi/products/liberty-dac/

2. What about this one?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-airist-audio-r-2r-dac

3. Has anyone used this? Good results? Is it superfluous for those of us who use the ISO REGEN?
https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/

Many thanks!

[azupan75]

Very good questions? Basically we need new thread with inputs from users and/or Alex what devices reliably work with LPS-1 or/and LPS-1.2 . Some info is provided on this and other forums but is rather scattered.

 

I believe Lps-1.2 works with Chord Qutest and 2Qute dacs. But I am more interested if anyone tried RME ADI 2 dac. According to specs should work

 

br, Andrej

[Dasign]

Received my LPS-1.2 last week and been listening to it for about 20 hours. This is a significant upgrade over the 1.1 version. This PS has much lower residual noise the the previous version. On well recorded albums, you can hear additional details, which remained under the radar with the 1.1 version. You will perceive an increase in music dynamics, bass resolution and weight, midrange presence. IMHO, the  most significant benefit of the 1.2 is that it provides musical cohesiveness, i.e., a sense of being present in the physical recording venue.

 

Great job Uptone Audio!

[Matias]

I also got a solid step forward in resolution upgrading the LPS-1 to the LPS-1.2 feeding my ultraRendu in the main system. Very nice, love it. Congrats UpTone.

[jdoleys]

Customs clearance today complete!! In some days I will have in hands. Alex tks for another things. Makes a incredible difference.

[matthias]

@Superdad

There are reports from diyaudio.com that Ultracapacitor PS with caps of 300F+ sound better without any regulation of LDOs.

Have you thought about launching such a PS?

Thanks

 

Matt

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, matthias said:

 

There are reports from diyaudio.com that Ultracapacitor PS with caps of 300F+ sound better without any regulation of LDOs.

Have you thought about launching such a PS?

 

I am familiar with what IanCanada and Arbartels are experimenting with (actually now 3,000 Farads!).  There are major issues—including safety, giant size, giant expense—and without complete bank isolation they are not going to eliminate leakage from charging (and their choice of MOSFETs will not help).  As seen from the ten pages where they brainstormed about what it would take to design a useable ultracap-based PS (one not tied to powering a particular low-current device), things get complicated VERY quickly—and in the end something sophisticated like our UltraCap LPS-1.2 is where you arrive.  So while I am sure Ian will come up with a piece that will work (maybe with some charging inconveniences), it will very much be for the DIY crowd.

 

As for LPS units with no output regulators: That direction also is fraught with peril (not to mention output impedances that are no better than the 2-3mOhm from our LPS-1.2, which in the end gets a bit overridden by connector resistance), and we are not about to abandon the LT3045–still the fastest, widest bandwidth, high-PSRR, ultra-low-noise LDO on the planet.

 

Still, it is fun to see what others are experimenting with, and that ultracapacitors are beginning to enjoy their day in more audio power supplies.  

[Superdad]

On 6/17/2018 at 10:14 AM, Dasign said:

Received my LPS-1.2 last week and been listening to it for about 20 hours. This is a significant upgrade over the 1.1 version. This PS has much lower residual noise the the previous version. On well recorded albums, you can hear additional details, which remained under the radar with the 1.1 version. You will perceive an increase in music dynamics, bass resolution and weight, midrange presence. IMHO, the  most significant benefit of the 1.2 is that it provides musical cohesiveness, i.e., a sense of being present in the physical recording venue.

 

Great job Uptone Audio!

 

Many thanks for your kind words!  So glad you are appreciating the refinements that our new efforts are yielding. 

[feelingears]

6 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I am familiar with what IanCanada and Arbartels are experimenting with (actually now 3,000 Farads!).  There are major issues—including safety, giant size, giant expense—...

 

Still, it is fun to see what others are experimenting with, and that ultracapacitors are beginning to enjoy their day in more audio power supplies.  

 

I suppose it goes without saying many of us appreciate that Uptone removes these hazards so we can enjoy the music without concern. Reading about what goes into electronics here and on other sites tells me that while DIY is great if you're into that stuff, even if you're into that stuff there's huge value in letting Superdad and (may I say) SuperJS sweat the small but serious details.

 

Thanks again, guys!

 

 

[Guidof]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Many thanks for your kind words!  So glad you are appreciating the refinements that our new efforts are yielding. 

 

Dasign’s words of praise for the LPS-1.2 are richly deserved. In my system it has replaced the already high-performing LPS-1 feeding my ultraRendu and has been providing sound which is still more richly detailed and effortlessly lifelike. As an added bonus, the fuller and tighter bass has allowed me to reduce the bass compensation in my DSPeaker, thus resulting in even greater clarity.

 

Kudos to John Swenson for another brilliant design and to Alex Crespi for making it available at reasonable cost.

[Geoff1954]

@Superdad Alex I posted three questions above regarding the use of the LPS. 1.2 and the ISO REGEN with three other products. When you have a moment could you respond?

I am getting more interested in the Mytek Liberty DAC in particular and wonder if my LPS. 1.2 could be used (with the splitter you recommended) with that product and my microRendu.

 

[pl_svn]

lots of suggested third party LPSs here

they all look to be way above the 1A an LPS-1.2 can deliver

[jdoleys]

@pl_svn And what is the purpose of your post? there will always be similar products. If intention is to alert as to other possibilities, ok. Otherwise I find your post belittling uptone work. 

It seems that the reason for the current limitation of the project has already been explained. Need more? go to other solution!

[Superdad]

On 6/13/2018 at 5:22 PM, Geoff1954 said:

Three questions. Apologies if they are answered elsewhere on this 12 page thread. I read the entire thread some time ago but did not know of these products when I read it, so may not have noticed.

1. Could the LPS 1.2 be used with this DAC?
https://mytekdigital.com/hifi/products/liberty-dac/

2. What about this one?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-airist-audio-r-2r-dac

3. Has anyone used this? Good results? Is it superfluous for those of us who use the ISO REGEN?
https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/

 

Hi Geoff:

 

Very sorry I overlooked your questions from earlier this month.  

 

Both of the DACs you list require more current than the 1.1 amp limit of the UltraCap LPS-1.2.  At present, UpTone's only higher current offering is our acclaimed JS-2.  It is a choke-filtered, dual-output, 5-7 amp design offering exceptional dynamic performance.  There are a number of aspects to its design that put it ahead of traditional transformer>diodes>capacitor>regulator supplies.

About 50 of the 240 JS-2 units built in 2017 went to Brooklyn DAC+ owners--all of whom have been delighted with its performance, many in comparison to other power supplies they owned.  Recently @austinpop wrote a full review of the Brooklyn DAC+/JS-2 combo.  You might find it to be an interesting read.

 

With regards to the iFi DCiPurifier: I believe that device is mostly meant to be used in-line with noisy SMPS units and not with a low-noise LPS.  If you are using the Mean Well SMPS that the ISO REGEN is often sold with, then you might indeed find some modest benefit to using the iFi DCiPurfier with it.

 

Regards,

--Alex C.

[pl_svn]

24 minutes ago, jdoleys said:

And what is the purpose of your post? there will always be similar products. If intention is to alert as to other possibilities, ok. Otherwise I find your post belittling uptone work. 

 

I own and love each and every UpTone product

looks you need some chamomile ?

 

Alex: feel free (obviously) to delete this post... and the one I'm replying to ?

[jdoleys]

@pl_svn yes! Really I nervous with familly problems but I still found it a bit out of context for this topic

[matthias]

13 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

I am familiar with what IanCanada and Arbartels are experimenting with (actually now 3,000 Farads!).  There are major issues—including safety, giant size, giant expense—and without complete bank isolation they are not going to eliminate leakage from charging (and their choice of MOSFETs will not help).  As seen from the ten pages where they brainstormed about what it would take to design a useable ultracap-based PS (one not tied to powering a particular low-current device), things get complicated VERY quickly—and in the end something sophisticated like our UltraCap LPS-1.2 is where you arrive.  So while I am sure Ian will come up with a piece that will work (maybe with some charging inconveniences), it will very much be for the DIY crowd.

 

As for LPS units with no output regulators: That direction also is fraught with peril (not to mention output impedances that are no better than the 2-3mOhm from our LPS-1.2, which in the end gets a bit overridden by connector resistance), and we are not about to abandon the LT3045–still the fastest, widest bandwidth, high-PSRR, ultra-low-noise LDO on the planet.

 

Still, it is fun to see what others are experimenting with, and that ultracapacitors are beginning to enjoy their day in more audio power supplies.  

 

Thanks @Superdad

two short remarks.

The price for a 2.7V/325F ultracap is around 10 USD.

The LT3045s may be the best LDOs on the planet, but they seem to degrade sound quality:

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/302687-es9018k2m-es9028q2m-9038q2m-dsd-i2s-dac-hats-raspberry-pi-48.html#post5465895

 

and post #480 on the same page.

 

Matt

 

[Frojo]

13 hours ago, Superdad said:

With regards to the iFi DCiPurifier: I believe that device is mostly meant to be used in-line with noisy SMPS units and not with a low-noise LPS.  If you are using the Mean Well SMPS that the ISO REGEN is often sold with, then you might indeed find some modest benefit to using the iFi DCiPurfier with it.

 

Regards,

--Alex C.

 

Hi Alex,  

i am confused! I posted in this thread recently, asking about replacing the smps's feeding my LPS 1.2 (x2) and LPS 1 . You graciously provided voltage/amperage requirements , but went on to assert that it would not be of any benefit ( however dirty the feed supply was). This seems at odds with the statement above.

I have three UA smps's on their own mains feed separated from my amplification feed. I have found that it was beneficial to 'un-earth' two of the smps's ( or put it another way- only to have one smps's grounded) Again , this seems to be at odds with the smps's having no effect.

Would another LPS 1.2 , increase isolation and mitigate these effects?

I am hoping to have enough funds to replace the LPS 1 , once I can find a buyer for it and a spare Regen ( Uk buyers - mail me ?)

 

Regards 

mark

[Geoff1954]

@Superdad Thanks Alex for the answer to my questions. You may (or may not) remember that I am using "the Mean Well SMPS that the ISO REGEN is often sold with" (or I am if that is what came with my original purchase of the ISO REGEN) because with  my current DAC (Explorer 2)-ISO REGEN combination, I am unable to use the LPS 1.2. (I do use the LPS for my microRendu.) 

So my current setup is this: microRendu>ISO REGEN> E2 DAC...BUT the ISO REGEN is powered by the original SMPS not the LPS 1.2

For a variety of reasons I am considering a different DAC in that room (and using my E2 elsewhere). So as I understand your answer, I could continue to use the ISO REGEN (with its original power supply) with a new DAC, but using the LPS 1.2 with a new DAC is problematic, depending on which DAC I choose.

Apologies if I am covering old territory, but if I choose the Project Pre Box S2 Digital do you expect I will be able to power both the microRendu and the the ISO REGEN-Project combination with the LPS 1.2? (To be clear, this would be a different power setup than I use with the E2 currently.)

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, Frojo said:

Hi Alex,  

i am confused! I posted in this thread recently, asking about replacing the smps's feeding my LPS 1.2 (x2) and LPS 1 . You graciously provided voltage/amperage requirements , but went on to assert that it would not be of any benefit ( however dirty the feed supply was). This seems at odds with the statement above.

 

Hi: I think you are confused because you thought my response was saying the mentioned iFI DC iPurifier might benefit an UltraCap supply--when in fact I was replying to his asking if it would benefit the Mean Well SMPS that he is using with his ISO REGEN.

 

5 hours ago, Frojo said:

I have three UA smps's on their own mains feed separated from my amplification feed. I have found that it was beneficial to 'un-earth' two of the smps's ( or put it another way- only to have one smps's grounded) Again , this seems to be at odds with the smps's having no effect.

 

Hmm.. Would need to see a diagram of your set up.  Un-grounding the UpTone-branded SMPS will allow them to pass high-impedance leakage current into the UltraCap units, an the 30pF of total transistor capacitance in the LPS-1.2 will allow some of that to pass through.  So technically that is not the best thing to do.  Rather surprised to hear that you prefer that.

 

5 hours ago, Frojo said:

Would another LPS 1.2 , increase isolation and mitigate these effects?

 

Sorry, I guess I don't quite understand.  Another LPS-1.2 to power another device?  They don't interact with each other.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Geoff1954 said:

Apologies if I am covering old territory, but if I choose the Project Pre Box S2 Digital do you expect I will be able to power both the microRendu and the the ISO REGEN-Project combination with the LPS 1.2?

 

Yes, you can power both an ISO REGEN and a Project Pre Box S2 Digital from a single LPS-1.2 (set to 5V).  You will need a 'Y' cable and a DC-barrel>microUSB adapter (I give the latter away for free to those who ask for one).

[Geoff1954]

@Superdad Alex I'm sorry but I'm afraid I've muddled things up here.

My primary use of the LPS 1.2 is to power my microRendu. I then also hoped to use it in conjunction with my ISO REGEN and a DAC. As you may remember, I bought the splitter you suggested in your most recent note, but it would not work with the ISO REGEN  between the microRendu and my Explorer 2 DAC. The workaround that solved the problem of THAT setup was to power the ISO REGEN and the E2 DAC with the power supply that came with the ISO REGEN, while using the LPS 1.2 for the microRendu.

If I replace the E2 with something else I am hoping your original suggestion will work. I would use the LPS 1.2 to power  the entire chain of microRendu/ISO REGEN/DAC. However, you've let me know the Mytek Liberty DAC is NOT a candidate for me because the LPS won't power that DAC. So I am reconsidering the Project product instead of the Liberty.

I anticipate this chain but perhaps I am still confused. microRendu>ISO REGEN>Project DAC. I would use the splitter to connect the LPS to the MicroRendu and the ISO REGEN. Is my error here that the Project would ALSO need a separate power supply; that it could not simply run from its connection to the other devices in the chain?

In the setup I have with the E2 DAC (described above) I do use the DC-barrel>microUSB adapter.

Apologies for all the confusion I've introduced!

[Frojo]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Hi: I think you are confused because you thought my response was saying the mentioned iFI DC iPurifier might benefit an UltraCap supply--when in fact I was replying to his asking if it would benefit the Mean Well SMPS that he is using with his ISO REGEN.

Absolutely right- i mis read his question /your response- sorry for that.

 

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Hmm.. Would need to see a diagram of your set up.  Un-grounding the UpTone-branded SMPS will allow them to pass high-impedance leakage current into the UltraCap units, an the 30pF of total transistor capacitance in the LPS-1.2 will allow some of that to pass through.  So technically that is not the best thing to do.  Rather surprised to hear that you prefer that.

 

Don't know how to 'do' diagrams- hopefully a description would make sense... UltraRendu/LPS1.2/UA smps-  IsoRegen/LPS1.2/UA smps-

Chord Qutest/LPS1/UA smps.  All three dc cables are Ghent DC01 with additional copper sleeve with JSG wire.The IsoRegen is uspcb'ed into the Qutest.The three UA smps's are the only items on a power strip fed from a house ring main. The amplification is fed from its own mains feed and earth.

Am i inadvertently defeating GI, through the earthing?

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

Sorry, I guess I don't quite understand.  Another LPS-1.2 to power another device?  They don't interact with each other.

I meant swapping the LPS1 with an LPS1.2

 

 

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, Frojo said:

Am i inadvertently defeating GI, through the earthing?

 

No, you’re not! ???

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Geoff1954 said:

I would use the LPS 1.2 to power  the entire chain of microRendu/ISO REGEN/DAC. However, you've let me know the Mytek Liberty DAC is NOT a candidate for me because the LPS won't power that DAC. So I am reconsidering the Project product instead of the Liberty.

I anticipate this chain but perhaps I am still confused. microRendu>ISO REGEN>Project DAC. I would use the splitter to connect the LPS to the MicroRendu and the ISO REGEN. Is my error here that the Project would ALSO need a separate power supply; that it could not simply run from its connection to the other devices in the chain?

In the setup I have with the E2 DAC (described above) I do use the DC-barrel>microUSB adapter.

Apologies for all the confusion I've introduced!

 

No apology needed Geoff.  If anyone is confused here it is me.  It is manic Monday after all! ?

 

A single UltraCap LPS-1.2 powering an entire microRendu>ISO REGEN>Project Pre Box S2 Digital chain?

Maybe, but not in the way you might think:

I think the total current draw falls under the LPS-1.2's 1.1A limit (estimate 320mA for microRendu, 220mA for ISO REGEN,  and perhaps 450mA for the Project DAC--that's 990mA, oh and another 20mA for the VBUS input side of the ISO REGEN, drawn from the microRendu to power the isolator chip), the issue becomes choice of LPS-1.2 output voltage setting and how you hook it up.

 

The microRendu needs at least 6V--so the 5V setting is out, 7V is what you would need to use.  So that means you can't just do a 3-way split to power the Project DAC through its microUSB power port--it takes 5V max.  You would have to power the DAC via 5VBUS power from the ISO REGEN.  That might be fine, so just a 'Y' cable from the LPS-1.2 to the microRendu and the ISO REGEN (always powering on the microRendu last as you know that is the one device which does not like the few milliseconds power-on ramp time of the LPS-1.2's LT3045 regulators).

 

I won't promise the above will work perfectly, but it should.  Then again, that did not seem to work out for you with the Meridian Explorer 2 DAC for some odd reason (likely due to however Meridian did their USB input stage).

 

Hope that helps a little.

--Alex C.