pl_svn Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 ok: connected everything and... despite Chord's claims about (L)PSes not making any difference with their Qutest DAC... the UltraCap LPS-1.2 *does* make a difference and not a subtle one! (btw... I was already powering the Qutest from a JS-2 ) great job once more, John and Alex Qnap HS-264 NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 running Roon ROCK (powered by a Keces P8 LPS) > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier > First Watt SIT 3 power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III headphones system: Cirrus 7 > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio > Pathos Aurium amplifier (powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Focal Clear headphones Link to comment
Apmusson Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 24/02/2018 at 5:56 PM, beautiful music said: And please report it back if you got something interesting Hi I have been listening to my lps-1.2 / Ultrarendu / Hugo 2 / HD800 for the post week. Great improvement in all aspects (but especially in bass presence and detail improvement) for the lps-1.2 over my lps-1. Not subtle at all. Well done guys. I've just tried to hook up my old lps-1 as a power supply for the Hugo 2 instead of the smps i was using as suggested by 'beautiful music' but realised that I don't have the right connector. So, instead stuck my Sbooster PSU into it instead. Initial immediate impressions are that I have been smiling a lot after this change (don't trust anything except for my emotional reaction at this stage). If this is borne out over a period of time it seems like the Hugo 2 might benefit from a good power supply despite what Rob says.... A few enjoyable days ahead I think. Ade Matias 1 Link to comment
bobfa Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I have to report on the LPS-1.2 and ISO REGEN as a pair. I have been testing around the need for USB cleanup and I have added the pair into my system. I am VERY happy with the improvements. I am writing about it over here: My Audio Systems Link to comment
skatbelt Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 15 hours ago, Apmusson said: I have been listening to my lps-1.2 / Ultrarendu / Hugo 2 / HD800 for the post week. Great improvement in all aspects (but especially in bass presence and detail improvement) for the lps-1.2 over my lps-1. Not subtle at all. Well done guys. Sounds like LPS-1.2 / ultraRendu is a Signature Rendu SE killer! Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, balanced) | Uptone Audio EtherREGEN + Ferrum Hypsos | Sonore OpticalModule + Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2 | Jensen CI-1RR Cables Jorma Digital XLR (digital), Grimm Audio SQM RCA (analog), Kimber 8TC + WBT (speakers), custom star-quad with Oyaide connectors (AC), Ferrum (DC) and Ghent (ethernet) Software dCS Mosaic | Tidal | Qobuz Link to comment
Superdad Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, Colin Green said: I was going to ask the same question, and if the LPs-1 can be used to charge the LPS-2, presumably you’d set the voltage of the LPS-1 to 7v. Would that suffice? Absolutely not possible or even desirable! First off, the UltraCap LPS-1.2 requires a charger truly capable of 36 watts. MUST equal 36W or greater. We include a 7.5V/4.8A unit, but 9V/4A, 12V/3A, 18V/2A, 24V/1.5A are all acceptable charger ratings (see how the V*A=26W). Secondly, it is a complete misunderstanding of the isolated, bank alternating, never-connected architecture of our UltraCap supplies to believe that cleaner charging power results in any change to the final output of our unit. Feed it the noisiest crap power, and as long as it is in the required wattage range, you will get the same ultra-low-noise out of it. There is one exception, and that is with regards to the original LPS-1 (not the LPS-1.2) and the singular case of unique high-impedance AC leakage current from an SMPS that does not have its DC output zero-volt "ground" shunted to AC ground. Please refer to these two posts: The new 36W SMPS charger that ships with the UltraCap LPS-1.2 already has the DC>AC ground-shunt internally, so the above is a non-issue for it. (And as a belt-and-suspenders move, we also changed to transistors with 1/3 the capacitance of those in the original LPS-1--further blocking the path of any high-impedance leakage, though with a shunted SMPS there is almost none coming in.) In addition, some people have either done John's DIY ground-shunt trick or obtained a supply that is that way in the first place, or use a cheap linear as there is not much AC leakage from those. So again, "cleaner" charger power for the UltraCap supplies is meaningless. All that leaves is whatever allergies people have to having an SMPS plugged into their wall. As I've said before, modern SMPS units--having to meet stringent emissions standards--kick only very low amplitude, very high frequency, spread-spectrum harmonics back into the wall. (And traditional linear power supples put low frequency harmonics back into the wall; That's why people hear differences with AC power cords on their amps--the cord acts as a filter for the harmonics going from the amp to the wall.) The lighting circuits (dimmers, etc.) and general wall quality in most people's homes is more detrimental than what a decent SMPS kicks in. The real evil of SMPS is the large amount of AC leakage (mostly low-impedance leakage) that they put out--but that is completely ignored by our UltraCap supplies. Sure hope we can leave this topic behind soon. Much more fun to read about how much everyone is enjoying the new LPS-1.2! --Alex C. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
afrancois Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I recently had my Lyngdorf DPA-1 DAC upgraded with a Pulsar clock and I decided to power this clock with one of my existing LPS-1's. I choose the one that powered my AQVOX switch and in turn, I powered the AQVOX with the LPS that powered the LPS-1 before. This gave some improvements but not as much as I had hoped for. It turned out, that it would be far better to link my DAC digitally to my amplifier, a Lyngdorf SDA-2400. Because of the digital connection, I had far less noise coming from my speakers and lots of detail, but things were somewhat bright. So I got myself a better digital interconnect, an Oyaide DR-510. Problem solved and I enjoyed the music a lot. But I knew that my system was still somewhat flawed because the AQVOX didn't have its own LPS-1 anymore and so my streaming solution wasn't completely isolated as before. To cut a long story short, I got my LPS-1.2 today and used it to power the AQVOX. BANG!!! Finally, the full potential of the Pulsar clock upgrade became apparent. I listened for hours and then I stumbled upon a recording that I thought was flawed (Shirley Bassey - Where Do I Begin). It now sounded wonderful! @Cornanyou will not regret the LPS-1.2 with your AQVOX. Here's a photo of the Pulsar. Cornan 1 Link to comment
Cornan Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 35 minutes ago, afrancois said: I recently had my Lyngdorf DPA-1 DAC upgraded with a Pulsar clock and I decided to power this clock with one of my existing LPS-1's. I choose the one that powered my AQVOX switch and in turn, I powered the AQVOX with the LPS that powered the LPS-1 before. This gave some improvements but not as much as I had hoped for. It turned out, that it would be far better to link my DAC digitally to my amplifier, a Lyngdorf SDA-2400. Because of the digital connection, I had far less noise coming from my speakers and lots of detail, but things were somewhat bright. So I got myself a better digital interconnect, an Oyaide DR-510. Problem solved and I enjoyed the music a lot. But I knew that my system was still somewhat flawed because the AQVOX didn't have its own LPS-1 anymore and so my streaming solution wasn't completely isolated as before. To cut a long story short, I got my LPS-1.2 today and used it to power the AQVOX. BANG!!! Finally, the full potential of the Pulsar clock upgrade became apparent. I listened for hours and then I stumbled upon a recording that I thought was flawed (Shirley Bassey - Where Do I Begin). It now sounded wonderful! @Cornanyou will not regret the LPS-1.2 with your AQVOX. Here's a photo of the Pulsar. Exellent news @afrancois! ? I will indeed use my LPS-1.2 to power Aqvox switch, but I will also power the GI Spdif output of my BluWave via a DC Y-split. I will add a 6v LT3045 at the LPS-1.2 DC leg and two 5v LT3045s at the Aqvox plus BluWave DC legs. Great looking Pulsar mod. I have been thinking about making clock mods, but have decided to keep cool and just monitor others peoples findings for time being. Enjoy! ? Link to comment
Superdad Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Cornan said: In any case I will feed my coming LPS-1.2 with a floating SMPS followed by an additional LT3045. Well then you will be putting high-impedance leakage into the LPS-1.2 with your ungrounded SMPS. The lower capacitance transistors of the new model will deal with this somewhat, but really you are not doing yourself any favors. And why follow the LPS-1.2's LT3045 regulators with another pair of LT3045s on a DIY board? 2 hours ago, Cornan said: If it would be possible to feed it with a LPS-1/LPS-1.2 with for example 12v/<1.1A for lower voltages like 5v/0.5A it could be a really interesting power supply to these eyes. I am keen to know if it is possible rather than recommended. If I would have relied on recommendations from manufactorers alone there where a lot of great SQ that I would have missed during the years in this hobby. No it will not be possible! EVER! The LPS-1.2, in all input and output cases, requires far more current to charge than its 1.1A output capability. Further discussion of chargers and non-standard usage will be summarily moved to this old LPS-1 thread: UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Zerstorer78 said: Does anyone find that the LPS1.2 is scorchingly hot? I have mine set to 7v powering a microrendu and it makes both so hot that it's painful to touch for more than a second. I just swapped over from a LPS1 and it was never so hot. Should not be that much hotter--if at all--when running it set to output 7V. I am going to do some more thermal imaging this weekend of both LPS-1 and LPS-1.2, using a controlled constant load at 0.5A and 1.0A and will then publish images and temperature measurements. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post JohnSwenson Posted March 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 3, 2018 The LPS-1.2 is a little less efficient than the LPS-1. there are two reasons for this: 1) The higher voltages run the switching transistors in a different place in their transfer curves which requires more drive current. This generates more heat in the driver transistors and resistors. There was no way to change this depending on the voltage. So even at 7V there is more heat generated. 2) There are two more ultracaps on the board. The ultracaps themselves generate a large part of the total heat. The current flowing through the these caps generates heat, we have two more, so there is more heat. The result is that it WILL generate more heat for a given load than the LPS-1, thus higher temperatures. In my setup powering an ultraRendu it gets a little warmer, certainly not to the point of not being able to touch it. If you are concerned about this, the best way to deal with it is get it vertical, either on its side or on the end. The front panel is flat so so you CAN set it on its front panel with the wires coming out of the "top", this will help a lot. Putting it on its side is the best, it gives the best airflow over both sides. An important thing to realize is that when it is flat (on its feet), the heat from the ultracaps can't easily get to the case to get dissipated, putting it on its side lets this heat rise to the case, this significantly cools the ultracaps. Some people have left it flat and put a heatsink on the top. This helps, but you still have the problem of not fully cooling the ultracaps. Putting it on its side, with or without a heatsink is the best way to go. John S. pl_svn, asdf1000, auricgoldfinger and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment
JohnSwenson Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 There are three error indicators--after starting up and being green: Steady red (not flashing): feeder supply voltage is too low, when this happens the LPS-1.2 shuts down and has to be power cycled to work again. Flashing red several times then green, then flashing reds again: over current, when the load current gets just above 1.1A it enters this mode. It shuts the output off for several seconds, (the flashing red), turns the output back on (green) and checks the current, if it is within spec it continues on in green. If the current is still over 1.1A it shuts the output off and flashes red... Flashing red continuously, (no green), the output has gone overvoltage (the threshold is 0.5V above the nominal voltage), it does this to protect your devices. THIS SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. Something is wrong with your unit, please get in touch with Alex and get a replacement. I want to tear this one apart and find out what is going on. John S. Link to comment
tboooe Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I am planning to buy 2 LPS-1.2 units and was wondering if a single SMPS that comes with it can power them? 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
JohnSwenson Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 3 hours ago, tboooe said: I am planning to buy 2 LPS-1.2 units and was wondering if a single SMPS that comes with it can power them? No, the LPS-1.2 takes just less than 36W maximum from its feeder supply. The supply that comes with the LPS-1.2 is a 36W supply, it can nicely handle 1 LPS-1.2 and that is IT. So no way can you feed two LPS-1.2 from one UASMPS (UptoneAudioSMPS) John S. Link to comment
[email protected] Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 20 hours ago, Superdad said: Should not be that much hotter--if at all--when running it set to output 7V. I am going to do some more thermal imaging this weekend of both LPS-1 and LPS-1.2, using a controlled constant load at 0.5A and 1.0A and will then publish images and temperature measurements. If you can not touch case - temp is 60C++. I don't see any heatbridges to transfer heat to the case, means PCB temp much higher, that would be a lifetime for supercaps (which is very sensitive for the operating temp) Impex Technology FZE Link to comment
pl_svn Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 my LPS-1.2, feeding 5v to a Qutest DAC, is indeed sensibly warmer than the LPS-1 feeding 7v to an ISO Regen but not at all even just close to untouchable Qnap HS-264 NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 running Roon ROCK (powered by a Keces P8 LPS) > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier > First Watt SIT 3 power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III headphones system: Cirrus 7 > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio > Pathos Aurium amplifier (powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Focal Clear headphones Link to comment
Superdad Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, [email protected] said: If you can not touch case - temp is 60C++. I don't see any heatbridges to transfer heat to the case, means PCB temp much higher, that would be a lifetime for supercaps (which is very sensitive for the operating temp) The LPS-1.2 case does not get over 60C. I will publish thermal photos with accurate measurements later today. The supercaps are being run far below their rated voltage, so lifetime, even at high temperatures s not much of an issue. agladstone 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted March 3, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 3, 2018 Okay, so here are the case temperature test results and proof: [By the way, the internationally recognized IEC 60065 safety standard for maximum case temperature of a consumer device in a metal enclosure is 70C (158 Fahrenheit).] Orignal UltraCap LPS-1, set to output 7V, driving a 1 amp load for 1 hour: 126.2 F = 52.33C New generation UltraCap LPS-1.2, set to output 7V, driving a 1 amp load for 1 hour: 130.4 F = 54.66C I left the second one for another hour. It did not get any hotter than the above. So yes, the new model runs just 4.2 degrees F (2.33C) hotter than the original. None of this is scorching news... asdf1000, johndoe21ro and mozes 2 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
agladstone Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 5 hours ago, Superdad said: The LPS-1.2 case does not get over 60C. I will publish thermal photos with accurate measurements later today. The supercaps are being run far below their rated voltage, so lifetime, even at high temperatures s not much of an issue. Alex: FYI, since reading this , I’ve touched my LPS1.2 case and I can say that mine is also extremely hot (and my DAC / Aurender have both been in standby for about 12 hours too!) - definitely MUCH hotter than my original LPS-1 ever got, it seems so hot to the touch it’s almost concerning (but just based upon my touch, not a temp read out). I will lay a thermal thermometer probe on top of it now and see what the temp is after 10 mins or so (I have a digital thermometer probe with display , I’m assuming it’s fairly accurate?) What is the best voltage and Amperage to use to power the LPS-1.2 that would also perhaps lower heat output? (7.5 vs 12, etc )? Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted March 4, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, agladstone said: Alex: FYI, since reading this , I’ve touched my LPS1.2 case and I can say that mine is also extremely hot (and my DAC / Aurender have both been in standby for about 12 hours too!) - definitely MUCH hotter than my original LPS-1 ever got, it seems so hot to the touch it’s almost concerning (but just based upon my touch, not a temp read out). I will lay a thermal thermometer probe on top of it now and see what the temp is after 10 mins or so (I have a digital thermometer probe with display , I’m assuming it’s fairly accurate?) What is the best voltage and Amperage to use to power the LPS-1.2 that would also perhaps lower heat output? (7.5 vs 12, etc )? I think you must have missed the photos and measurements I posted a couple hours ago. Based on my tests with precision instruments and accurate full 1A loads, anyone claiming that the new LPS-1.2 runs markedly hotter than the original LPS-1 is imagining things. There is less the a 5-degree Fahrenheit difference between the two! Most of the heat is from the supercaps themselves, so while there are very minor variations in heat based on charger voltage, there is no point in changing from the 7.5V/4.8A/36W charger unit we include. If anyone is concerned about heat (and there really is no need to be), then stand your LPS-1/1.2 on edge or on its face. Cooling will be much improved that way. Again, this is a non-issue. The product was designed this way and the components are running well under their limits. We pay close attention the value-tolerance, voltage, wattage, and thermal ratings of every single part on the boards. We often will spend 2-4 times for a better rated part, to be certain the products will perform properly for many years. pl_svn, so-no-mah, feelingears and 2 others 2 2 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
simonklp Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Superdad said: Okay, so here are the case temperature test results and proof: [By the way, the internationally recognized IEC 60065 safety standard for maximum case temperature of a consumer device in a metal enclosure is 70C (158 Fahrenheit).] Orignal UltraCap LPS-1, set to output 7V, driving a 1 amp load for 1 hour: 126.2 F = 52.33C New generation UltraCap LPS-1.2, set to output 7V, driving a 1 amp load for 1 hour: 130.4 F = 54.66C I left the second one for another hour. It did not get any hotter than the above. So yes, the new model runs just 4.2 degrees F (2.33C) hotter than the original. None of this is scorching news... Hi Alex, I understand that your key message was that the temperature difference between the new and old models is small. But, in order to be explicit, could you please kindly advise on the ambient temperature under which the test had been carried out? Thanks. johndoe21ro 1 Link to comment
[email protected] Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 7 hours ago, Superdad said: New generation UltraCap LPS-1.2, set to output 7V, driving a 1 amp load for 1 hour: 130.4 F = 54.66C 55 or 60C - is not an issue, heat sources are isolated from the chassis and air not very good heat conductor, means temperature for the heat sources (Like IC, Transistors or capacitors) could be much higher and it could affect ultracap lifetime (see how big is difference in Projected DC Life at Room Temperature vs 65C - 10years vs ~2month) http://www.nesscap.com/common/download.jsp?dir=product&sfn=FFZGAQVTFVNLTJH.pdf&ofn=NCE_2017_Datasheet_2.7V10F_REV18_20170613.pdf. P.S. You can try to have same thermal image for the open case board P.P.S. I think you need to drill/mill ventilation holes Impex Technology FZE Link to comment
sandyk Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 26 minutes ago, [email protected] said: 55 or 60C - is not an issue, heat sources are isolated from the chassis and air not very good heat conductor, means temperature for the heat sources (Like IC, Transistors or capacitors) could be much higher and it could affect ultracap lifetime (see how big is difference in Projected DC Life at Room Temperature vs 65C - 10years vs ~2month) http://www.nesscap.com/common/download.jsp?dir=product&sfn=FFZGAQVTFVNLTJH.pdf&ofn=NCE_2017_Datasheet_2.7V10F_REV18_20170613.pdf. P.S. You can try to have same thermal image for the open case board P.P.S. I think you need to drill/mill ventilation holes The continuous 1A from a PSU rated at 1.1A maximum, performed by Alex C is a pretty severe test. It's never a good idea to run a PSU right at it's maximum capabilities continuously . If you wish to do this you really should consider using a higher current power supply such as the JS-2 The LPS-1.2 will run much cooler with the typical loads it was designed to work with, and MOST devices will NOT consume 1A continuously either, so the LPS-1.2 will run much cooler and have a long service life if you don't try to run it at it's maximum ratings continuously. Perhaps some of you are expecting way too much from this well designed little unit ? If you really need higher current capacity , then perhaps 2 could be run in parallel, provided that current sharing was possible , perhaps with a couple of small external components such as a very low value resistor in both output leads ? My apologies if this area has been discussed previously. johndoe21ro 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Superdad Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 4 hours ago, simonklp said: Hi Alex, I understand that your key message was that the temperature difference between the new and old models is small. But, in order to be explicit, could you please kindly advise on the ambient temperature under which the test had been carried out? Thanks. It was 70 degrees Fahrenheit in my office when I conducted the tests. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
simonklp Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 21 minutes ago, Superdad said: It was 70 degrees Fahrenheit in my office when I conducted the tests. Noted with thanks. Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted March 4, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, [email protected] said: P.S. You can try to have same thermal image for the open case board Yes we did all that during development. We are well aware of the temperatures of all parts and their ratings. 1 hour ago, [email protected] said: P.P.S. I think you need to drill/mill ventilation holes Between origianl LPS-1 and New LPS-1.2 we have close to 2,000 units in the field. This product has proven reliable and is backed by a 3-year warranty—though we certainly expect them to last many years beyond that. Alexey, since you are also a purveyor of power supplies (though just DIY at present), I feel it is inappropriate of you to come to our sponsored forum to critique our products and promote doubt about them. feelingears and johndoe21ro 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
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