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Blue or red pill?


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11 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

I can assure you (and everyone else) there was no 'tell' within the first 20ms of each music sample! And in any event, the mismatch was just due to the digital recorder's auto-start function. As you might imagine, I no longer use the auto-start function.

 

The signal reaching the DAC remained bit-identical throughout the ABX.


Mani, this is not the point. In an objective test, the results of the test and the procedure is what counts. Assurances, no matter how certain you are, are not valid, unless they can be confirmed by objective means.

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32 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Assurances, no matter how certain you are, are not valid, unless they can be confirmed by objective means.

 

You've just confirmed them by objective means. The 'glitch' within the first 20ms lies below -100dB.

 

Even if this were fed to the DAC (which it wasn't), are you saying I'd be able to hear this? Really???

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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15 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:


No. The chart shows an average, not an instantaneous value. 

 

Ok, so what's the highest instantaneous value, and where does it lie (in time) from the beginning of the capture?

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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The instantaneous value seems to be at around -80dB, 17ms or so into capture. Even if this were fed to the DAC (which it wasn't), do you think I'd be able to hear this???

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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46 minutes ago, manisandher said:

The instantaneous value seems to be at around -80dB, 17ms or so into capture. Even if this were fed to the DAC (which it wasn't), do you think I'd be able to hear this???


Yes. No. Maybe. The problem is we don’t know. It requires speculation instead of actual objective findings.

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No speculation required. The actual objective findings are:

 

- the digital recorder is not directly in the playback-listening chain

- the glitch, due to the digital recorder's auto-start function, has a max instantaneous value of -80dB at 17ms

- the glitch is totally eliminated by 20ms

- the glitch doesn't descriminate between A and B (in the ABX)

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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2 minutes ago, manisandher said:

No speculation required. The actual objective findings are:

 

- the digital recorder is not directly in the playback-listening chain

- the glitch, due to the digital recorder's auto-start function, has a max instantaneous value of -80dB at 17ms

- the glitch is totally eliminated by 20ms

- the glitch doesn't descriminate between A and B (in the ABX)


Where is the recording showing that the glitch didn’t occur in the listening chain? All I see is your assurances.

 

There are a number of recordings that show the glitch and another number that don’t. Mani, you are not going to solve the problem by arguing about it. There were flaws in the test, and this is just one of them.

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Paul, I tested the Tascam recorder. The intermittent glitch is due to its auto-start function. Without the auto-start, there is no glitch at all, ever.

 

Of course the setup wasn't perfect. I don't live in a lab. I used equipment that I have in my domestic environment. You know, sometimes, all you have to go with is induction: take all the evidence at hand and formulate a reasonable conclusion. It may not be water-tight, but at least it allows you to proceed.

 

But it seems that you're not willing to do this. Shame, because it's unlikely there'll be any follow-up as a result. So be it.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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4 minutes ago, manisandher said:

Paul, I tested the Tascam recorder. The intermittent glitch is due to its auto-start function. Without the auto-start, there is no glitch at all, ever.

 

Of course the setup wasn't perfect. I don't live in a lab. I used equipment that I have in my domestic environment. You know, sometimes, all you have to go with is induction: take all the evidence at hand and formulate a reasonable conclusion. It may not be water-tight, but at least it allows you to proceed.

 

But it seems that you're not willing to do this. Shame, because it's unlikely there'll be any follow-up as a result. So be it.

 


Here’s a suggestion for next time: get someone in the field of conducting sensory experiments to design and approve the test plan before you start. There are a few such experts here and some on ASR.  An objective test doesn’t have to use perfect equipment but equipment must be tested and measured before the test so that there are no questions about what happened afterwards.

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No more formal listening tests for me (I really didn't enjoy it), but I'll be sure to pass on the advice, should the opportunity arise.

 

I'm still determined to see if I can measure bit-identical differences at the analogue output of the RME though.

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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