Spacehound Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 11 hours ago, mansr said: There is no she here. Imagine how my place looks. She's very tolerant as she's the only one in her 'circle' that owns a genuine nerd. On the evening I first met her later on we were in her house, hands and knees on the floor, with a big sheet of paper and me explaining 'entity-relation' databases. Link to comment
Popular Post Spacehound Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 8 hours ago, GUTB said: It weighs 10 lbs and so is unable to well control resonance. The little cheap 5" driver being run by a tiny class D module will never be able to move a satisfying amount of air. They are designed for near-field monitoring (ie, not for serious home listening). Class D sucks, that’s well-established — and even if you believe in ultra high-end class D modules used in serious audiophile amps — the baby mass market junk in these things are not suitable for serious audiophiles. Why does class D suck? Pulse-width modulation operates between 400-500 kHz and in order to clean up the output and produce a usable analog waveform out the other end very aggressive filtering is needed. Bandwidth is severely limited and the time domain is damaged. Our ears HATE class D switching artifacts. It's always wise to buy audio equipment by the pound, isn't it? Kindly explain why the excellent Rega turntables deliberately use very lightweight plinths. Or why the Celestion SL600 ultralight aluminium honeycomb speaker sounded much better than the heavy wooden SL6 when they were the same size and used the same drive units. PCM amps don't have to use aggressive filters - try the Devaiiet range, which are in principle merely a modernisation of the old Quad 405 'current dumping' amp. I am curious, as you seem to have firm 'technical' opinions on the above two things and much other stuff, how much time you spend actually listening to the huge variety of equipment available at all sorts of prices compared to just reading or 'theorising' about it. esldude, Ajax and Fluffytime 1 2 Link to comment
Norton Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Resonessence Mirus Pro (via SD Card) + Low power SS power amp (say 30 watt Pass Labs)+ Pair Klipsch Cornwalls, Fortes, or Crites Cornscalas c $17 k all in new, or $10k used. Pretty much what I have. Link to comment
Spacehound Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 5 hours ago, sdolezalek said: So much unhappiness, discontent and disagreement in response to what should be a simple question. Other than Ralf11's suggestion of a $10k system is anyone else here very happy with their system at a price point less than that? (I ask about "their system" because anyone can put together a theoretically great sounding system on paper, I much prefer a system someone has personally chosen to live with long term and is willing to stand up for its excellence.) $6k Maggie 3.7i speakers $2.4k Schiit Yggy DAC $0.7k Schiit Vidar amp - 0 - your existing computer onto which you rip your existing CDs $0.1k cables -------------- call it $10k for a really fine system; I'm quite happy with mine that also includes a bunch of very attractively priced Maggies, but except for the manufacturer discount, it doesn't qualify as "Least Cost." Yeah, I suggested a system around 5000 UK pounds (approx. 6000 dollars) and all readily available on the UK 'high street. I also suggested an alternative amplifier that could replace the somewhat 'over the top' (but fully able to support later, upgraded' systems) first suggestion and halve the overall cost to £2500 but still give excellent sound. with the rest of the equipment. I only own two pieces of the equipment I recommend but have heard all of it. To me that's much better than GUTB's 'theorising'. And of course if you really want a 'budget' system there is stuff like Sony music systems, with Sony speakers in the price, at various prices and 'grades' pleasing hundreds of thousands of people all over the world. Link to comment
mourip Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Buying used will save you up to 50%. Note that not all warranties are transferable. Note also that ordering from overseas can make a warranty nearly worthless. or I suggest: Omega Audio speakers Schitt Audio stack: Gungir Multibit(Yggy will be better but at a cost) and Vidar amp (note: you will need volume control in there somewhere and consider remote control if you change tracks and disks a lot)) Blue Jeans cables or DIY with Duelund wire Your own computer running JRMC "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
davide256 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Confused said: I think the LS50's would be a fine choice in a cost-effective system, you can double the price of the KEFs and still struggle to find anything significantly better. This makes me think about the 'wireless' / active LS50. $2200 for a fully active system? Depending on what you are looking for, this might be very hard to better for the price. I think the wireless LS50's are a fine choice for a "once and done" system (non audiophiles). Doesn't work though if your planned mode of operation is to upgrade 1 system component annually. Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 8 hours ago, Sonicularity said: I'd rather see how the speakers measure in a room where they might typically be set up. I can guess how GUTB would evaluate almost any audio equipment, including transducers. Just plot a graph with the quality increasing at some direct relationship with the price. Some LSR 305 measurements from here: http://noaudiophile.com/JBL_LSR305/ Here is a thread about the LSR308s with some good measurements in room. https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/jbl-lsr-308-in-the-house.1066/ Mostly taken at the listening position 10 feet away in a fair size room. The owner of these usually listens to Martin Logans driven by large Krell amps. https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/jbl-lsr-308-in-the-house.1066/ From that thread is the following. Upper line 1/6th octave smoothing for a sweep response. And the lower line is noise at 1/48th octave. And the waterfall plot at 1/6th octave smoothing. Fluffytime and Sonicularity 1 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Popular Post plissken Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 15 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I'd look at something from Schiit and Elac. Looking at all the instrumented testing of various Schiit products from multiple people with Audio Precision and other analysis gear I have no idea how Schiit can be considered remotely competent gear. Fluffytime and esldude 1 1 Link to comment
esldude Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, davide256 said: I think the wireless LS50's are a fine choice for a "once and done" system (non audiophiles). Doesn't work though if your planned mode of operation is to upgrade 1 system component annually. I agree the LS50's are quite good, but I found I couldn't fully enjoy them without a subwoofer. The sub didn't need to be extraordinarily expensive. I thought them lean and lacking below 100 hz without that help. Those speakers and a good sub are a good value for the performance you get to enjoy. Ajax 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
GUTB Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Looking at my system: Custom linear power PC: $1.5k Holo Cyan DSD: $1k Schiit Freya + tubes: $1k Linnenberg Allegros: $5.5k Fritz Carbon VII SEs: $2.5k Cables: $2k Add power stuff and software and we’re around $14k. If I add the turntable gear I’m up to $16k. Room treatments are definitely over $1k.... So what could I do to bring this down to the bare minimum I could live with? Source: Gigabyte/MSI motherboard with clean USB custom PC - $0.5k DAC: Chinese dual transformer 9038 / 4497 DIY - $0.3k Amp / Pre: NAD 316 - $0.3k (used) Speakers: Fritz Carbon VII SEs - $2.5k (I haven’t anything less that I could live with). Cables: Amplifer Surgery silver plated interconnects and Audio Sensability speaker cables - $0.5k So a little over $4k. The main problem is finding speakers I won’t hate for less than $2.5k. Link to comment
plissken Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Source: Intel NUC with the J3455. No fan noise that I've ever heard out of these. $130 4GB RAM: $32 1TB SSD: $249 FLAC: Free Linux: Free Jriver: $49 JRemote (run it headless) DAC: Presonus 2 | 6 $199 Speakers: JBL LSR 308's (active/powered) $500 Sub: Two SVS NSD-12's $800 For under $2000 I don't see it being easily bested. Ajax 1 Link to comment
Cebolla Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 hour ago, davide256 said: I think the wireless LS50's are a fine choice for a "once and done" system (non audiophiles). Doesn't work though if your planned mode of operation is to upgrade 1 system component annually. Only if the choice of the LS50W for 'once and done' includes not minding about poor connectivity/dropout issues and lack of gapless playback support! We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
adamdea Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Any old nas. Rpi as server. Rpi as renderer (probably with digi board). Dsp antimode as dac and drc. Active speakers aux choix. if on a tight budget don’t bother with the antimode and just get a hat dac. Cebolla 1 You are not a sound quality measurement device Link to comment
semente Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, plissken said: Source: Intel NUC with the J3455. No fan noise that I've ever heard out of these. $130 4GB RAM: $32 1TB SSD: $249 FLAC: Free Linux: Free Jriver: $49 JRemote (run it headless) DAC: Presonus 2 | 6 $199 Speakers: JBL LSR 308's (active/powered) $500 Sub: Two SVS NSD-12's $800 For under $2000 I don't see it being easily bested. Interesting that you are paying more for transducing sub-bass than the rest of the range. I wonder if there aren't any equally good but cheaper subs around? Or better wider range speakers for $1300? "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Cebolla Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, adamdea said: Any old nas. Rpi as server. Rpi as renderer (probably with digi board). Dsp antimode as dac and drc. Active speakers aux choix. if on a tight budget don’t bother with the antimode and just get a hat dac. I wouldn't even bother with a NAS - the RPi as the server & external drive will do. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
plissken Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, semente said: Interesting that you are paying more for transducing sub-bass than the rest of the range. I wonder if there aren't any equally good but cheaper subs around? Or better wider range speakers for $1300? You need to get ears on the 308's. I think you would be hard pressed to do better for $1300. You could maybe go to the BIC H100 II X2 for $500 bringing the total to $1000 for the speaker stack. I consider $400 for a Sub pretty low price to begin with. Link to comment
adamdea Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 23 minutes ago, Cebolla said: I wouldn't even bother with a NAS - the RPi as the server & external drive will do. I was sort of taking it as read that everyone had one knocking around. But yes- USB drive into pi, or just into router, if your router will do that. You are not a sound quality measurement device Link to comment
zackthedog Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Melvin said: In the $1500 & under category: $500 - Bluesound Node 2 $190 - APPJ PA0901A integrated amp $40 - Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7 $40 - Mullard EL84 (matched pair) $700 - Omega Super 3i Monitors Add cables, NAS and/or streaming service and you're good to go. It sounds a whole lot better than it ought to at this price point. Obviously it sucks according to some here at CA. Looks like a great little system to me! Fluffytime 1 Link to comment
esldude Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 59 minutes ago, semente said: Interesting that you are paying more for transducing sub-bass than the rest of the range. I wonder if there aren't any equally good but cheaper subs around? Or better wider range speakers for $1300? Well the Dayton Audio subs are surprisingly good for not much money. Not as good as SVS or Rhythmik. They are able to provide bass and not muck up the rest of the sound. Their main shortcoming is playing bass with extreme loudness. In the role of taking the load off of smaller speakers and providing a commensurate level of bass to go with it they work pretty well. $149 for a powered 12 inch, and $198 for a 15 inch. If one has the room, where they can utilized in a distributed sub assembly, one can manage room modes and such with several subs in several locations. So in some cases a set of 4 subs spread around correctly vs one good sub in one location might be a valid alternative for the same money. Of course if money weren't a factor I would go with 4 Rhythmiks. semente 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
firedog Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 13 hours ago, GUTB said: This juxtaposition of experience and knowledge vs belief is striking. What do you base your belief of small class D monitors with plastic baffles performance on besides they are mentioned a lot on the Internet? Boy, and you would never do anything like that.... Fluffytime 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 12 hours ago, GUTB said: Class D sucks, that’s well-established In your mind. Lots of others disagree. Including experienced audiophiles and pro reviewers. No one's forcing you to listen to a class D amp. It really isn't necessary every time a Class D amp is mentioned to repeat your "it sucks" posts and your supposed technical "proof" of why you are right. Fluffytime and ds58 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Norton said: Resonessence Mirus Pro (via SD Card) + Low power SS power amp (say 30 watt Pass Labs)+ Pair Klipsch Cornwalls, Fortes, or Crites Cornscalas c $17 k all in new, or $10k used. Pretty much what I have. If you noticed I made a contribution already. You just have to have topics I'm interested in. I'll even post some details about my office system because it fits the topic. And I expect some criticism for the SACD/CD player I used a Sony Playstation but that's OK. Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 10 hours ago, GUTB said: I am told over and over and over and over and OVER again how price doesn’t equal quality. Fine, that’s a truism. Now let’s see if the reality is going along with that. These JBL near-field monitors don’t compete with Riahdos, Magicos, TADs, etc, and literally everyone knows it. So where are the $300 Wilsons? Price doesn’t equal quality after all. That makes no sense. Who said the little JBL's are as good as a $10K or $20K speaker with amps? Are you actually trying to make a point? Let's get real: the biggest difference between extremely expensive systems and much more modest ones is the ability to play very low bass (below 40 or 50hz), and the ability to play dynamics, and play loudly and fill a largish space without strain. That's where most of the big bucks go. A lot of this can be overcome with powered speakers and subs or very careful choice of more modest conventional amps and speakers. If you have a smaller space or don't listen loud: decent amps, good standmounts, and a good sub or two will get you almost all the way there. Yes, the very expensive systems are better. But a well chosen few thousand will get you about 95% of the way there in a not large room. That's why price and quality aren't directly tied together. That's the trap of audiophilia: paying those ever increasing amounts for each additional percent. Ajax and Fluffytime 1 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: And I expect some criticism for the SACD/CD player I used a Sony Playstation but that's OK. No, it is known to be a good player. AFAIR, John Devore used one at an audio show to demonstrate his expensive speakers with some pretty good tube amps. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
davide256 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 2 hours ago, esldude said: I agree the LS50's are quite good, but I found I couldn't fully enjoy them without a subwoofer. The sub didn't need to be extraordinarily expensive. I thought them lean and lacking below 100 hz without that help. Those speakers and a good sub are a good value for the performance you get to enjoy. hmm... they do better than my Magnepan 1.7s for low bass in a 12x12 room, just not as flat in response for the range above 50hz. The main limitation/plus I see for the LS50's are that they are small room speakers... put them in a large room and their limitations will be exacerbated. A bigger listening room though drives a more expensive system for watts and speaker dispersion integrity over distance. Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
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