The Best for the Least

[beerandmusic]

19 minutes ago, BobSherman said:

How can you stand listening to such high distortion Tang band and Dayton drivers? Does it keep you up at night?

 

I will give you a bit of my feeling. In listening to the Schiit multi-bit vs delta-sigma I hear superb information retrieval accompanied by a more natural presentation. Sounds real, something missing imo from most D-S dacs I have owned. You know trying it won't kill you. Ultimately you can disagree, but at least you can form a fully valid opinion. Unless you really don't care and just enjoy being annoying. 

i tried and liked native dsd via enet tons better than schiit pcm usb

[beerandmusic]

6 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

 

When Schiit believes in their product enough not to charge re-stock fees...

+1

i paid those restocking fees to ship back...

[beerandmusic]

imho anything that does not have DSD capability can't be included in a category "best for least" or "best anything"....jmo

[beerandmusic]

Just now, BobSherman said:

I do not like it better, but I also like up-sampling to higher rate  DSD with the D-S dac I own. Doing this brings other system considerations into play though, cpu power, electrical noise etc.

if you don't like it better, why bother?

[beerandmusic]

4 minutes ago, BobSherman said:

Because I have more than one system.

i still don't understand your comment..maybe i misunderstood what you were saying...

 

if you don't like it better to upsample to high rate dsd, then why do it?

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, BobSherman said:

 The systems with the delta-sigma dacs sounds better imo than pcm when up-sampled to dsd ...

+1

 

I still prefer native dsd to upsampled, but agree with you here.  imo native dsd over enet sounds best in my systems, in all of my testing over the years....

I still have not tried a chord though....maybe a qutest some day....they seem to get a good review in their price range...i just wish chord would make something more contemporary looking...i think their dacs are UGLY.

[beerandmusic]

Back to topic...let's not limit this just to DACS either. 

I would love to hear what others think are the best speakers less than $3K (new or used).

 

I like PSB Imagine T2 (used $1800)

B&W 705 (used $900)

FOCAL BE (anything)

ATC (anything)

 

anyone proud of their speakers that think they meet the "best for least"?

 

 

[beerandmusic]

anyone recommend any integrated amps with phono input?

[beerandmusic]

1 minute ago, GUTB said:

So has there NOT been large advancements in speakers over the last 50 years? Is this the contention? Everybody should know that I’m not out to defeat or ridicule anyone. I’m not out to trap  anyone. I’m neuro-typical, 100%. Is the contention that I should abandon plans to upgrade speakers in the $7-10k range and instead look into a set of vintage speakers that will equal anything I can buy today?

 

buy focal sopras

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, BobSherman said:

Really? 

 

Yahama NS1000, Celestion SL600s, SL700s, Just three that IMO can preform with current speakers.  There are many more.

 

JBL

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jbl+restored

 

or

 

 

[beerandmusic]

or how about this one....

 

BEST FROM USA IN JAPAN?

 

MCINTOSH, JBL, SNAP ON, and HARLEY (grin)

 

 

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, BobSherman said:

Bang for the buck front end and DAC: Raspberry Pi - Allo DigiOne driving

a Modi-Multibit.

allo usb for DSD

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

The folks who hang out here must not be audiophiles because I've never seen anything resembling a consensus here... on any subject... ever... 

reminds me of my topic.... "is everything debatable" (lol)

 

The thing is, everyone is correct, since everything is subjective....

or you could say everyone is wrong for that fact too (wink)

 

I say hogwash to all of it...just get something that supports alexa since everyone is right or everyone is wrong however you want to look at it.

 

Alexa, skip song...

 

[beerandmusic]

6 minutes ago, Spacehound said:

People on forums, including ourselves, (if we are totally honest) aren't usually interested in other peoples opinions

 

They are on forums to 'broadcast'  their own 

 

Actually, i would love to hear a concensus on DACs....I know mcintosh rules in amps and focals or ATC for speakers ("rules" in that i would toot my horn for), but I have yet to hear a DAC that really floated my boat that i would toot my horn for.....i have heard so many DAC flavors...except a Holo that superdad recommended, or the CHORDS that many people recommend (but they are so ugly).  I might have to get a QUTEST though, just so i can say i tried one, and "still no hoopla", or maybe i will be impressed for once....i wish chord would make a streamer dac though, so i could compare usb to enet on one....so far enet and optical have always sounded better than usb to me, so i am reluctant to try yet another usb dac, unless through a sonore or sotm....right now my ND8006 sounds as good as any other enet/DAC i have tried...but I still wouldn't say it is a "step up" or a "step down"...

[beerandmusic]

16 minutes ago, STC said:

 

The loudspeaker technology is more or less remained the same. However, they have made progress in the material and design. IMO, newer speakers should sound better given that age will degrade the components but that doesn't mean they could not be restored to their former glory.

 

Technically, modern speakers may measure better but it doesn't mean they will always outperform some good old speakers.

 

I "think" beryllium (BE) makes a difference in speakers...that guy Kendricks restores many speakers with BE tweeters....and i know LOVE the Focal BE's.  I also LOVE a LOT of the old vintage speakers...sometimes I am absolutely floored with many of the old speakers.  Love many of the older B&W, JBL, Tannoys, ATC, Klipsch, DCM, even some of the POLKS!~

[beerandmusic]

5 hours ago, Spacehound said:

Just buy a Chord Mojo (500 dollars) or a dCS Rossini (20,000 dollars) and which  is a network player as well as a 'regular' DAC with a USB, coax, and a few other ports . You will never bother with others DACs whichever one you buy.

 

All DACs that use the ten dollar  'off the shelf' DAC chips (which is most)  vary mainly in the fancyness of the case as technically every one of them is merely implementing somebody else's ideas as best they can.

 

Chord and dCS go their own way and they are genuinely superior. And you will notice that superiority in less than a minute.

could be right, that they have a "house sound".  I asked an amplifier engineer what it is about mcintosh amps, why they sound so much better an different than most everything i have heard and they said that it is the way the transformers are wound to "make it sound" a certain way.  I used to think that I wouldn't want a "house sound" or an enginneer's designed sound, but once I heard that, I didn't care since I know I like "mcintosh sound" whatever it is.  So i guess in buying a chord, you really are buying their algorithm in what the designer wanted, and it may be the only thing that would separate it from the crowd.  If i buy another dac, it will likely be a chord...at least to "give it a shot".

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

I'm not seeing your point. Here's what dCS say about their design:

 

"dCS DACs oversample in several stages, eventually presenting the Ring DAC(TM) with 5-bit binary data at about 3MS/s. The Mapper decodes the data to a minimum of 32 digital signals, one corresponding to each binary state, then it scrambles the order of the signals. The Mapper randomises small matching errors in the Ring DAC core, converting what would be harmonic distortion to a small amount of extra noise."

 

That's a description of a bog-standard sigma-delta DAC with dynamic element matching. You can buy them from ADI, AKM, Cirrus, ESS or TI for a few dollars apiece. Trying to pass it off as something novel they invented is dishonest regardless of how well built it is.

DCS is out of my budget anyway...what's your take on Chord?

[beerandmusic]

5 minutes ago, mansr said:

I've never seen or heard one, but their approach to digital filters is sane.

 

Besides Schiit, it seems they have a good fan base, and I wasn't impressed with Schiit...although i heard one of schiits older companies (theta digital) that sounded amazing, but it was paired with Focal' speakers....i haven't heard anything paired with Focal sopras i didn't like (grin)...

 

nonetheless....I think i will try a chord in my own system some day, just so i can put it to rest that dacs  do or don't take you to a "next level"...

[beerandmusic]

9 minutes ago, semente said:

Have you been taking lessons from GUTB? 

GUTB is anti everything...i am just not a usb pcm fan...other than that, i like everything....even cheap stuff....I haven''t ever heard anything that sounds "bad"...even usb pcm sounds good....give me the "sweet spot" and good speakers, and I am happy (especially with native dsd and good music)....try that with GUTB.

[beerandmusic]

59 minutes ago, semente said:

I replaced the T2s with a pair of Stirling LS3/6s, and I'd look at Kefs in same price range.

I picked up a pair of LS3/5a for $25 at a garage sale....they sounded amazing for their size....unfortunately i sold them on ebay for $1100 within 24hrs of buying them...(that was several years back ago before I even got back into music)...I wish i held on to them longer...i bet those LS3/6s are superb.  Do you not run them with a sub?

[beerandmusic]

5 minutes ago, Spacehound said:

Regarding Chord I can only speak for the Mojo, which is excellent (I mostly use it in my car attached to an iPod running the  Onkyo HF Player app, which reduces the iPod to just a 'drive', does PCM up to 192 and converts DSD  to PCM (which is pointless with the Mojo as that does DSD fine  but it does no harm).

 

In a home system the Mojo is fine too. But it is not 'optimally convenient'  as it doesn't have an input switch. It 'prioritises' instead, so if you use coax you have to unplug the USB cable and if you use optical you have to unplug both the USB and the coax cables. As I only use USB it's fine for me.

Also in 'line' mode its internal battery only lasts about five hours but although Chord say it's fine it gets  hotter than I like if you use it and charge it at the same time.

 

But the Mojo sounds  vastly better than any other DAC I've heard except the Rossini, which I find indistinguishable from the Mojo.

Maybe I need a 'high end' cable 

 

I will assume the qutest has some of the same magic juice, and i will likely go for that model if/when...I don't want to deal with charging, as i would only use for home use.

[beerandmusic]

21 minutes ago, bigbob said:

 

You have hit the biggest nail right on the head, with such force as to seat its head on the surface of the board.

 

I could not agree with you more and were are in the process of testing that very set-up (albeit with a RasPi outputting to the Multibit via USB-- although I am considering the SPDIF digital connection in our second round of testing)

 

@BobSherman, I would appreciate your further input with regards to digital coaxial vs. USB, as I am not that familiar with the differences--and what impact that would have.

 

It is my opinion that USB connections are more accessible to more devices in the entry-level. But, for the Audiophile listener, it may well be a better arrangement.

imho optical is better than usb, but optical doesn't support highres dsd files...so that should be your decision...if you don't care about dsd (and seeing you like schiit) i would suggest optical....but if you want the best, go to highres native dsd....

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, bigbob said:

 

I do favor Schiit, and you are correct-- the Computer Audiophile on the Cheap-- is priced out of the DSD-streaming subscription market.

 

Almost my entire library is 24/192, 24/96 FLAC and MP3@320 files. My target demographic would look at me with a blank stare if I started talking about DSD256.

 

Which is to say, as a practical concern, my class of listeners found Hi-Res Audio, stored on a 1Tb external drive--a Great Leap Forward, compared to their 16/44 Redbook CD collection.

 

I am not going to say that in the years to come,  DSD streaming is not the next big thing, or am I going to jump into the MQA realm just now.

 

If that is where we are headed, then we will jump onboard that Train when the offerings include familiar recordings, not some obscure vocalist that has never been close to a Billboard Top-100 chart.

 

What I have found available in DSD is nothing I am interested in listening to, nor willing to invest in hardware to decode. (And if I am wrong, please tell me where Simon and Garfunkel, or Thomas Dolby is offered in DSD.)

 

I am a very Grateful Dead-head. The vast library of 24-bit soundboard recordings will probably never be part of a DSD streaming service. To each their own.

 

One article I read about Schiit said they were targeting folks who wanted to make the Stereo they had, sound its best.

 

Computer Audiophile on the Cheap makes decisions based on "Perceived quality vs. Investment" in all choices.

most of the "good dead stuff" is bootlegs not audiophile worthy (wink), at least according to my brother.....  My brother had a collection of several hundred tapes that he spent years collecting and trading for.  I donated them to a neighbor of his at his passing. 

Anyway, for your liking, i would recommend the optical solution over usb...jmo

 

[beerandmusic]

4 minutes ago, bigbob said:

 

A quick Google found this:  "TEAC's new UD-501 is the star of the 501 series. The UD-501 supports Direct Stream Digital (DSD) playback at either  2.8 MHz or 5.6MHz (DXD) rates. PCM audio is supported up to 384kHz/32-bit resolution. It connects to your computer over USB using ASIO 2.1 or DoP." --for under $500 as a refurbished unit.

 

I agree we don't have to break the bank to hear good music.

you can find the NT503 on used market now for $500, and would be my recommendation over the 501, if purchased today.

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

As I said, when I bought - no NT503's were on the market and this fell into my lap with warranty. Not going to argue about that.

yea, reading thread backwards...and i was responding to bob, as i didnt see your post first...i am sure the 501 is great for the price!

i even edited my post to include..... if purchased today. ....