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Best next upgrade up from microRendu? Go for Ultra or SOtM or a Server or something else?


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1 hour ago, ismewor said:

Yes, it is.

 

I had the M1 with the netcard Yes, it is much better than the USB connection. But then you will need a much better switch and router. I use the TCXO router from TLS which make a huge jump in sound quality. (And if you do that you don't need the 200 ultra, but than you need a much better server)

Your P10 is much better than the Furman

It is an improvement from ISORegen

 

It may be a misread. The PC needs to be connected to something else, the simple Furman can block the computer (as best as it can). The audio equipment remains as is, on the P10. The P10 is a noise maker since it's an inverter, so it must have heavy filtering to keep it quiet.

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1 hour ago, firedog said:

Will be interested to hear what you think. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for the M5 as a source upgrade, as it seems to be one and there is a limit how much I want to spend. The M5 seems like a relatively good bang for the buck in the high end of USB sources. 

The intent is to use AES3 or the coax S/PDIF out to the DAC and avoid USB. Still mulling whether to reclock the M5 output and introduce another box that could colour the sound with high leakage currents, impeding the gains of the re-clocking.  

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On 1/19/2018 at 5:35 PM, firedog said:

Will be interested to hear what you think. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for the M5 as a source upgrade, as it seems to be one and there is a limit how much I want to spend. The M5 seems like a relatively good bang for the buck in the high end of USB sources. 

An update Jan 25. The M5 arrived, but it's staying in the box, going back to the vendor unopened. I was advised a procedure that I didn't feel comfortable with relating to the connection of the M5 on the Ethernet side.

 

In researching methods to make Ethernet quieter, the amount of effort to clamp the noise emitted from IT devices like routers. switches and cables is just as fraught with drama as is USB,  just ask any ham radio operator. Fixes include linear power supplies to the switches (which at CA we know of) and routers, ferrite cores on Ethernet cables and in some cases shielded Ethernet cabling. The problem of STP Ethernet, is rampant conduction of noise to an unwilling host.

 

Ethernet is good for IT, for audio? Even if the Ethernet cable is unplugged, it still plays from a buffer, together with the noise from the system intact. 

 

I'm out of Ethernet for audio.

 

Better the devil you know.

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1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Lumin has good reviews, but the zeniths are newer models and likely have newer advances in technology, plus their interface looks nice...if i had your money, i would go zenith, and i have been seriously contemplating the lumin d2 (more along my budget).

 

The Zenith have hdd that are too small for an ever expanding library, unless everything was converted to MP3. Also not sure if Roon server can be installed either.

D2 uses noisiest Ethernet , unless there’s heavy filtering, lps for a start.

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1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

 

the zenith is out of my budget...D2 is only i could afford for myself...not sure what you mean by "noisiest enet"? are their diagrams showing the noise of differnt streamers that you compared it to?

 

The zenith having hdd is a plus?  many streamers don't have hd at all, and wish to keep their hd on nas or other?

Are you promoting the Lumin U1 over the Zenith?

Please refer to this post about RF emissions from IT equipment.

 

 

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6 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

From your 'jriver playback list', I would steer you away from the NUC i7 as a server. It's a high powered system with a fancy processor with features not needed in audio playback and generate 'noise' that will be transfered further up the chain.

Instead look at Supermicro's E200-8B server, configure it exactly as you want it with all the storage you need and set it up for jriver. This server uses the same motherboard as the zenith, (look at the rear its identical). It uses very low power, about 1/3 of the NUC - less noise generation and a celeron j1900 quad core proccessor @ 2Ghz still up for any task you throw at it., A simpler processor structure much better for audio. Get 8GB ram and configure jriver to playback from ram ( if it doesnt do that automatically - been a few years since I used it). This is the same arrangement as the Zenith. It has a DC jack input on the rear so you can use your JS2 to power it. It will only use about 2 amps so you'll have the second rail free from your JS2 to power another device. With this as your server you'll get the best of both worlds.

Further improvements- get an EMI reduction sheet eg 3M or Wurth electric or better the one from SOTM and fix it on the underside the servers top panel. Ask the supplier if they can fit a SATA power to Female DC jack adapter ( this is also a simple DIY task) and you can power your hard disc/s directly with your LPS1/s.

If you're going for the SMS200Ultra or Ultrarendu power them with the second output of the JS2 and not the LPS1.

https://www.thinkmate.com/system/superserver-e200-8b

Noble find on the thinkmate site.

 

Just running money numbers in the cold light of day.

 

As configured with a small SSD and 8GB RAM the price of the server with Win 10 is USD801. A JS-2 power supply is USD925, totalling USD1726. forget the freight for now.

 

A Zen MKII standard with the smallest drive is USD2122 with no VAT exemptions. Let's work out the VAT at 20%, that's USD1697 at current rates.  The Innuos has a complete OS built in and a linear supply. Sure there could be differences between the JS-2 and who knows what is supplied with the Zen, but we are looking at some small differences in cost, therefore performance issues can take priority. For a change.

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1 hour ago, ismewor said:

Not too soon just yet. 

Have you try the OCXO or TCXO switch from TLS. http://thelinearsolution.com/ocxo_switch.html

Give them a shout, I have awesome result with their stuff so far.

The hardware is fine, but what about the UTP that radiates noise? On the face of this, I would be up for replacing two switches, a router and two boxes of 1000' of cable with non radiating type (?), plus a grand headache of equi-potential bonding between the router and switches which are a floor away. RFI can be measured. I leave a lot of leeway with subjective opinions on audio quality, and don't insist on measurements, but the linear solution products can be measured and results published.. Use a portable radio as proof :):) 

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You have to ask yourself, what do the people that make recordings listen to. They don't have USB chains with multiple components, linear power supplies or obsess with cables. The information of the original recording is stil in the bits, so why not use the same mechanism to playback?

 

There are a few on CA that after a few years still have their Focusrite Rednet Dante network like @mourip and @gldgate and have no need to change.  It takes a typical audiophile to stretch out the signal transmission chain to overcome losses from the source to the DAC, each time creating more problems with introducing more noise from power supplies and crappy IT equipment. So I was looking for the home run and the RME works fine with this DAC, has good stage height, sharp focus and very non fatiguing.

 

Now to find a DAC that has an AES3 input and plays PCM properly. :|

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18 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

AES3 and optical (ADAT and even TOSlink) still seem very common, from my observations around the Gearsltuz forum and others. The former for longer runs obviously.

Optical cables that carry ADAT and TOS peeter out at 5m, something to always watch for. The source computer needs to be a long way away from a DAC.

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2 minutes ago, fsmithjack said:

Here is the only info I could dig up on the:

 

Trinity Electronic Design GmbH

MediaPC & Transport

Combines the finest electronics and the noblest enclosures

 

Based on a NUC6i5 mother board, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD for Windows 10 Operating System and Software, 4TB HDD for Music files 1 Optical Drive (Blu-Ray, DVD and CD) please note: the audio data stream is always transmitted via USB interface and not as SPDIF or AES/EBU)

Optional: Optical USB Interface with 480Mbit/s for the complete galvanic de-coupling between TRINITY mediaPC&Transport and TRINITY DAC. SMPS with a low drop, low noise linear Voltage regulator.

The optical Drive and the HDD are mounted on special rubber elements with different softness. This kind of mounting removes any mechanical noise of the drives and isolate both drives from the enclosure

It's a computer, dearer than the SGM, those brief specs are hardly enough to fork out $4k, let alone $29k.

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  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, ALRAINBOW said:

In a built for purpose music server the OS drive 

must be its own drive 

music if inside the server must be on its own drive. Or does not matter how fast the drives are even a m2 is effected by the sound 

the power supply needs to be separate two. 

So as an example if you use a SSD it needs 5 volts dc for its power this 5 volts must be from its own seperate buss regulator.  

An lps  may have a 5 volt output  ut cannot be used for both drives as it polutrs the 5 volts 

as each drive pulses for its power. This matters of its SW pau or not.  Of course a lps is far better in sound. Now music drives can share a v buss coz they are not being used st the same time. Now of someone claims it does not matter they are just wrong period. Also someone or a few companies make sata filters for this purpose too. They work as well but it’s better to have a lps that has more outputs and they are not shared 

google has plex 200 watt.  Also there 400 watt dc atx board 

note the HPD plex 200 watt has two 5 volt outputs to use plus both 12/5 on the dc atx board is well.  Never use the 5 volt usb power for drives as this pollutes the usb outputs as a start and generally ruins the rest of the digital chain.  I know some servers side common buss power this shows they don’t know or care and posters on here claiming results with expensive add ons and don’t mention this simple fact are clueless.  See my point. Sell a 4K product as an end point and don’t care at the start what must be minimal

hope this clears things up sorry if I post confusing but be assured I do know better and why 

Ideally, the motherboard has its own supply (12V for a small one like Supermicro), the OS drive has it's own supply and the music drives.

 

Dimensioning the power supply for the various components, the Motherboard is easy enough to obtain, Watts/0.5. 

For a large spinning drive, Hitachi 6TB fr example, the power consumption quoted is 9W for both 5V and 12V as a combo. Not heard this nonsense, so of the 9W how much is 12V and 5V?

An older drive shows the current ratings on the nameplate. This annoys me about data sheets, why be so vague and incomplete.

 

StorageReview-Hitachi-Ultrastar-7K4000.jpg

 

Now depending on the music library size, there could be multiple disks. A Linear PS can be sized for the pair (or more). I would add another 150% current to allow for startup. SCSI drives you could program from the motherboard to start sequentially, this is now ignored. 

I found the music server needs space to cool, small form factor PCs cook HDDs, same as external USB drives. If the server is on for hours on end, the USB drives cook and soon fail, so I rejected external drives long ago for this reason.

Not really entertaining the idea of an SSD music drive of TB in nature, far too expensive these days, if the power distribution is under control, it should not affect the processing or vice versa.

 

The 0V common for all these supplies will be an interesting terminal.  Perhaps a small tin plated busbar wouldn't be out of place and it should be grounded with the PE.

Hitachi Ultrastar-7K6000-DS.pdf

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