Network Streamers With I2S Output?

[tapatrick]

Finally received all the pieces and started to build my Ethernet to I2S  Roon streamer comprising a Sparky SBC > McFifo & McDualXO Isolator and rechecking boards > HDMI LDVS board > DAC.... more later

 

[T-Bone]

Wow - that looks interesting.  Maybe a little above my skill set, but very interesting.  Please let us know how it performs when you’ve got it running.

[tapatrick]

9 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Wow - that looks interesting.  Maybe a little above my skill set, but very interesting.  Please let us know how it performs when you’ve got it running.

will do @T-Bone

[T-Bone]

I think I may have found what I've been looking for.  Today I learned about the Mano ULTRA music streamer.
LINK

 

It's Ethernet in and I2S out - just what I was asking for!  I don't really know too much about this device yet, but it looks promising.

I've grown frustrated having to "decrapify" USB signals with isolators, regenerators and digital converters.  
I've been looking for an "Ethernet in, I2S out" device that will let me dodge the entire USB signal path.  

 

If there's a hiccup, perhaps it's that this device doesn't offer integral WiFi - you need a dongle.

How much do you want to bet that the WiFi dongle is USB?!?!

[T-Bone]

Does anyone know what has changed from the original Mano (thank you @diecaster) and the "new" Mano Ultra?

The web site isn't terribly clear what differentiates the two products.

[diecaster]

You are welcome.

 

It would seem the clocks/clocking are improved as is the built-in LPS. That’s all I could glean from the site. 

 

I will I’ll be keep an eye on this product. It would seem to be a great match for my DirectStream DAC. 

[doraymon]

Checking in as I am interested in feeding my Holo KTE Spring L3 directly from a streamer with I2S output.

Today I have a very long (and expensive) USB chain.

4 boxes before the DAC:

AQVOX AQ-SWITCH-8 > SOtM sMS-200ultra > SOtM tX-USBultra > Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3 

Funny enough removing the SU-1 and feeding the USB in of the Spring directly from the tX-USBultra sounds better to my ears.

 

I'm ready to sell the whole chain and invest in a very good streamer with I2S output.

 

 

[FredM]

On 13-2-2018 at 5:53 AM, T-Bone said:

Does anyone know what has changed from the original Mano (thank you @diecaster) and the "new" Mano Ultra?

The web site isn't terribly clear what differentiates the two products.

When you scroll down, at the 'technology' section you'll find the differences marked

https://magnahifi.com/nl/webshop/product/mano-ulttra

[FredM]

5 hours ago, doraymon said:

Checking in as I am interested in feeding my Holo KTE Spring L3 directly from a streamer with I2S output.

Today I have a very long (and expensive) USB chain.

4 boxes before the DAC:

AQVOX AQ-SWITCH-8 > SOtM sMS-200ultra > SOtM tX-USBultra > Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3 

Funny enough removing the SU-1 and feeding the USB in of the Spring directly from the tX-USBultra sounds better to my ears.

 

I'm ready to sell the whole chain and invest in a very good streamer with I2S output.

 

 

That are 4 boxes, excluding the power supplies. This also put me off, as well as the extra cost for a bunch of cables. The one box Mano appeals to me. My only concern is the performance in comparison with the SOtM Ultra's, a first hand experience would be nice. Metrum has announced the Ambre with I2S output, probably also in the €1.000 range. Otherwise the Bricasti M5 could be interesting, although without I2S output.

 

It would be great if Manga, Metrum, SOtM, Sonore, .. would make a killer one box NAA/endpoint with I2S, but perhaps it is to much of a niche market??

[seeteeyou]

Here's another one for less than 300 bucks

 

http://www.jfdigital.com/en/products/details.asp?id=72

https://post76.hk/thread-272685-1-1.html

 

[doraymon]

19 hours ago, FredM said:

That are 4 boxes, excluding the power supplies. This also put me off, as well as the extra cost for a bunch of cables. The one box Mano appeals to me. My only concern is the performance in comparison with the SOtM Ultra's, a first hand experience would be nice. Metrum has announced the Ambre with I2S output, probably also in the €1.000 range. Otherwise the Bricasti M5 could be interesting, although without I2S output.

 

It would be great if Manga, Metrum, SOtM, Sonore, .. would make a killer one box NAA/endpoint with I2S, but perhaps it is to much of a niche market??

Thanks.

The Ambre looks promising. 

[ted_b]

The Ambre is likely to get an RJ45 (ethernet) I2S port rather than HDMI, since that is what it is using with its dac I2S add-on board, right?  So compatibility might very well be an issue for owners of many I2S dacs not called Metrum.  BTW, where are folks getting Ambre news (like it having NAA, etc)?

[MTZ Audio]

Hello computeraudiophiles,

 

My name is Mark and i am new here.

 

I use a PinkFaun I2S bridge Pcie card in my computer as streaming device going directly to my W4S Dac2.

This is a simple but effective solution. I haven't compared it to other streamers but it sounds quite good.

I can use Foobar or the Tidal desktop app to play my music. 

You can take a look on my Youtube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsKChwXauPs

Best regards,

 

Mark

[FredM]

2 hours ago, ted_b said:

The Ambre is likely to get an RJ45 (ethernet) I2S port rather than HDMI, since that is what it is using with its dac I2S add-on board, right?  So compatibility might very well be an issue for owners of many I2S dacs not called Metrum.  BTW, where are folks getting Ambre news (like it having NAA, etc)?

 

The connector doesn't matter that much, as long you can adjust the signals setting it will be flexible. But I agree, ideally an I2S standard will appear on the horizon, plus and play.

 

I believe "NAA" has several definitions. With NAA I mean a Network Audio Adapter device (Network Ethernet in / digital audio out). So the Ambre is a NAA, just as a SMS-200, UltraRendu, Mano, etc

 

My main source for Metrum news is Facebook, on their page Cees posted some  impressive test with the RJ45/ethernet I2S cable lengths.

[ted_b]

By NAA I meant specifically HQPlayer's network audio adapter and said daemon, which is a specific application and more defined than just having a network in, digital out.  And what do you mean the connector doesn't matter much?  Can a round peg (RJ45) fit in a square hole (HDMI)?   Please advise.

[FredM]

5 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Here's another one for less than 300 bucks

 

http://www.jfdigital.com/en/products/details.asp?id=72

https://post76.hk/thread-272685-1-1.html

 

 

Hi Seeteeyou, firstly I want to express my appreciation for your posts on CA with so much interesting insights, a big thank you!

 

When you happen to notice a killer one box NAA/Endpoint with I2S output, I very much interested (preferably at SOtM Ultra’s level or above). Unfortunately I don’t have useable DIY/solder skills, so a ‘of the shelve’ device is preferable :-)

[FredM]

10 minutes ago, ted_b said:

By NAA I meant specifically HQPlayer's network audio adapter and said daemon, which is a specific application and more defined than just having a network in, digital out.  And what do you mean the connector doesn't matter much?  Can a round peg (RJ45) fit in a square hole (HDMI)?   Please advise.

 

Nothing a big hammer won’t solve :-)

 

I meant that the I2S signals can be transported true a HDMI and RJ45 connector, both will work and both ‘formats’ will have their good, bad and ugly plugs. It’s also possible to work with a HDMI on one end and an RJ45 on the other end, as long as the internal signal wires match (and preferably can configurated with jumpers). Not being an expert, perhaps a more technical skilled member can confirm this? A common I2S standard would make things easier though.

[ted_b]

I've reviewed here on CA several I2S units including the Holo, the SU-1, the PS Audio Directstream, the Sonore Signature Rendu, etc.  I have NEVER heard of universal I2S ethernet cable with an HDMi on the other end (some DIY guys tried it a couple years ago but found issues with voltages, LVDS staying balanced, DSD compatibility, etc).  Please don't minimize this incompatibility, but if you have plans or drawings then by all means.  I was simply pointing out that us HDMI-based I2S owners should not immediately assume a Metrum streamer (or any other RJ45-based I2S source) will work.  That's all.  And yes, as many of us have been saying for years now: "ahh...I2S standards..and so many to choose from!".

[FredM]

2 hours ago, ted_b said:

I've reviewed here on CA several I2S units including the Holo, the SU-1, the PS Audio Directstream, the Sonore Signature Rendu, etc.  I have NEVER heard of universal I2S ethernet cable with an HDMi on the other end (some DIY guys tried it a couple years ago but found issues with voltages, LVDS staying balanced, DSD compatibility, etc).  Please don't minimize this incompatibility, but if you have plans or drawings then by all means.  I was simply pointing out that us HDMI-based I2S owners should not immediately assume a Metrum streamer (or any other RJ45-based I2S source) will work.  That's all.  And yes, as many of us have been saying for years now: "ahh...I2S standards..and so many to choose from!".

I’m not looking for a discussion, just pointing out HDMI and RJ45 can work together, in the uncertain I2S context., I don’t think there’s a ‘universal’ HDMI - RJ45 cable, which will create a plug and play connection. Given the various I2S implementations this isn’t the case. But that doesn’t have to mean it’s impossible. Ie earlier I had contact with Manga and they told me the Mano with HDMI out should be compatible with a Metrum i2S input (after contact with Metrum). Again, this is a rather custom situation (given the lack of standardisation). But please don’t rule out HDMI/I2S compatibility on forehand, i guess it depends. Unfortunally per situation some investigation is still necessary (which is also the case with a HDMI - HDMI I2S connection).

[FredM]

10 hours ago, FredM said:

I’m not looking for a discussion, just pointing out HDMI and RJ45 can work together, in the uncertain I2S context., I don’t think there’s a ‘universal’ HDMI - RJ45 cable, which will create a plug and play connection. Given the various I2S implementations this isn’t the case. But that doesn’t have to mean it’s impossible. Ie earlier I had contact with Manga and they told me the Mano with HDMI out should be compatible with a Metrum i2S input (after contact with Metrum). Again, this is a rather custom situation (given the lack of standardisation). But please don’t rule out HDMI/I2S compatibility on forehand, i guess it depends. Unfortunally per situation some investigation is still necessary (which is also the case with a HDMI - HDMI I2S connection).

Hmm, a day after correction (I blame 3 delicious Golden Carolus and a pleasant evening), sorry for this..

HDMI/I2S => HDMI/RJ45

 

bottomline: HDMI and RJ45 can work together, but it depends.

[seeteeyou]

14 hours ago, FredM said:

 

Hi Seeteeyou, firstly I want to express my appreciation for your posts on CA with so much interesting insights, a big thank you!

 

When you happen to notice a killer one box NAA/Endpoint with I2S output, I very much interested (preferably at SOtM Ultra’s level or above). Unfortunately I don’t have useable DIY/solder skills, so a ‘of the shelve’ device is preferable :-)

 

They used to make this but you could still find used ones

 

http://www.sonore.us/signature-rendu-se.html

http://www.rendu.sonore.us/signature-series-rendu.html

 

LVDS i2s COMPATIBILITY
PS Audio - PerfectWave DAC MKI/MKII
PS Audio - DirectStream DAC
Rockna - Wavequest (pending verification)
Sonore - Signature Series DAC
K&K Audio - RAKK DAC
Wadia - Intuition (pending verification)
Wyred4Sound - DAC-2/DAC-2 DSDse

 

[doraymon]

22 hours ago, ted_b said:

The Ambre is likely to get an RJ45 (ethernet) I2S port rather than HDMI, since that is what it is using with its dac I2S add-on board, right?  So compatibility might very well be an issue for owners of many I2S dacs not called Metrum.  BTW, where are folks getting Ambre news (like it having NAA, etc)?

I wrote an email to Metrum.

They replied in like 2 minutes and yes, the Ambre will get an RJ45 I2S port...

Damn!

I thought I’d be happy with my KTE SU-1 DDR but it turns out I prefer my sotm chain going directly in the USB input of the Spring, which shouldn’t be the case on the paper.

I’m even questioning if the addition of the tX-USBultra after the sMS-200ultra brings any benefit...

My gut feeling is:just too many boxes = sources of any kind of noise

[FredM]

32 minutes ago, doraymon said:

I wrote an email to Metrum.

They replied in like 2 minutes and yes, the Ambre will get an RJ45 I2S port...

Damn!

 

Perhaps you can ask about the possible compatibility with your DAC?

[T-Bone]

2 hours ago, doraymon said:

I thought I’d be happy with my KTE SU-1 DDR but it turns out I prefer my sotm chain going directly in the USB input of the Spring, which shouldn’t be the case on the paper.

I’m even questioning if the addition of the tX-USBultra after the sMS-200ultra brings any benefit...

My gut feeling is:just too many boxes = sources of any kind of noise

 

I've got the Holo Spring DAC too and I am on the record as not being a fan of its USB implementation at all.  In my listening tests, I found the USB input to be the worst performer.  I feel that Holo's USB implementation is its Achilles' heel.  Using the I2S input bypasses the internal AK4118A receiver and pretty much sends the signal straight to the digital/analog conversion.  

 

That's why I'm keen to streamline my signal path and get rid of the "daisy-chain" of USB devices.  

 

So to hear you say that you prefer the SOTM's USB output into you DAC is a bit of a shock.

....trust your ears.  If that's what sounds best to you - enjoy it!

 

Now that I'm sold on I2S as the "best" input on my DAC and in my system, I'm trying to find out how to get the "best" quality I2S signal.  I'm not sure if that will be a USB chain terminated by an SU-1 or perhaps it starts life as an Ethernet signal and terminates with a Mano ULTRA.  

[Miska]

2 hours ago, T-Bone said:

I've got the Holo Spring DAC too and I am on the record as not being a fan of its USB implementation at all.  In my listening tests, I found the USB input to be the worst performer.

 

Hmmh, strange. Based on my measurements, it's USB interface is very good...

 

2 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Using the I2S input bypasses the internal AK4118A receiver and pretty much sends the signal straight to the digital/analog conversion.

 

That's not used with USB inputs...