Chord Qutest

[barrows]

4 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Good Question. Of course the USB “wall-wart” that comes with the Qutest is less than ideal. But I have a very large battery USB supply which is extremely quiet, and can source about 5 Amperes. Using that to power the Qutest improves it immensely. But it still doesn’t sound like the Hugo2, nor does it sound as good. Neither does my bench supply make it sound like, nor as good as the Hugo2. It just doesn’t, and I don’t know why.

I do not know how the outputs not he H2 work, if they are separate for headphones and line, but the headphone output would of course be totally different from what the Quests has in order to deliver enough power to drive headphones.

BTW, those USB battery supplies are usually not very good, they almost always use a cheap, noisy, switching regulator on their outputs.  Unless you have something special, designed for high end audio, I woudl suspect thta a good linear power supply woudl work way, way better not he Qutest.

[gmgraves]

44 minutes ago, barrows said:

I do not know how the outputs not he H2 work, if they are separate for headphones and line, but the headphone output would of course be totally different from what the Quests has in order to deliver enough power to drive headphones.

BTW, those USB battery supplies are usually not very good, they almost always use a cheap, noisy, switching regulator on their outputs.  Unless you have something special, designed for high end audio, I woudl suspect thta a good linear power supply woudl work way, way better not he Qutest.

I made the battery supply. No regulators on my home-made supply. The car starting “brick” that I used in my review of the Qutest, of course, did use a regulator (as it was 12 volt). That’s why, later, I built a high current battery supply. And I compared them using the line outputs of the Hugo2. Hope that clears some things up.

[davide256]

2 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I have extensively compared (along with some of my audio buddies) the Pontus with not only the Hugo2 but with the Benchmark DAC3, and the latest Schiit Yggdrasil. Sound wise, the Denafrips Pontus trounces all of them soundly and embarrassingly!

BTW, the Cutest is supposed to be exactly the same DAC section as in the Hugo2, and they should sound the same. They do not. Not even close! The Hugo2 sounds much better than the Cutest.

The DAC section is identical but the line out is not 🤔 

[Gavin1977]

There is definitely merit to spdif investigations.  I did a further test this morning and the soundstage is better constructed using spdif, with a noticeable increase in soundstage height compared to USB (and my USB set up is pretty darn good).  This is through speakers of course.

 

I will also try spdif with the warm filter as well, as it might keep the soundstage and bring the signature closer to USB compared to the neutral filter.

 

Optical cables:  Audioquest diamond, Sysconcept 24/192 and lifatec...  any further thoughts on these and suggestions?  Can any of these increase dynamics?

[fds]

Very interesting and surprising to me ... I would have never expected that spdif will be comparable or even better than USB.

[Gavin1977]

27 minutes ago, fds said:

Very interesting and surprising to me ... I would have never expected that spdif will be comparable or even better than USB.

Same here... I haven’t used optical for a long time (influenced by high res >192 I guess).

[Middy]

@Gavin1977

Ive been playing with the IFI Zen blue and for convenience using BT.

From Robs comment i tried the optical out on a cheap amazon cable. I ordered the sys cable from canada not realising it was plastic but so much more detail. But wanted to try real corning Glass and got a Japanese import AUDIOTRAK fiberglass OPTICAL digital cable GlassBlack2plus 1.0m

Gave a wide presentation clear highs and wide but its an acquired taste as its so different from spdif..

I did like it though in my set up.

I jumped back to spdif on a nord easy stream 3 in the uk and very happy. But Optical info is sparse, try finding out how to properly clean a port you cant.. and i can see you hit the same forums on what cables to try... frustrating.... 

Shame optical was never pushed techically beyond CD players to the networks we have now... now another draw full of more things tried... but definitely try a  cheap one just to see...

 

Everywhere you see the fight to pimp my Qutest, power and source quality are the top 2, cables are the fine tuning..

 

Cheers 

Dave

 

 

[Gavin1977]

There is also a further option - Monoprice slim run to USB.  So you can have the higher data rates of USB, but with optical isolation.  @ray-dude does the same here on these forums.  I do not know which option is better for Chord DACs without purchasing both a slim run and a high quality optical cable. 

 

Seems that the Atlas Mavros Optical is the best one for me, as can be purchased at a reasonable £167 in the UK and compares well with the AQ Diamond Optical by all accounts.

[Gavin1977]

1 minute ago, Gavin1977 said:

There is also a further option - Monoprice slim run to USB.  So you can have the higher data rates of USB, but with optical isolation.  @ray-dude does the same here on these forums.  I do not know which option is better for Chord DACs without purchasing both a slim run and a high quality optical cable. 

 

Seems that the Atlas Mavros Optical is the best one for me, as can be purchased at a reasonable £167 in the UK and compares well with the AQ Diamond Optical by all accounts.

Scrap that, I'm going to stick with a new toslink.  Apparently the issue with the monoprice slimrun is it would only play a handful of tracks with the JCAT USB XE card before stalling / appearing dead.

[ray-dude]

One of the best values in audio is the (now discontinued) Chromecast Audio end point, with toslink to DAVE/Hugo2/etc.  $50 to test the optical interface, and for most folks, as far as they will want to go (search for "Chromecast" here for details https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto•dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#item-review-22155 )

 

When I was still using mScaler, my preferred interface was Matrix Audio XSPDIF 2 (USB in, TOSLINK out) to mScaler.  It was only when I started doing software upsampling that I went back to USB (alas, TOSLINK is limited to 192k, or I would still be there)  The Monoprice Slimrun optical USB is a step up for USB, but toslink is still better SQ for sample rates <192k.  Alas, I'm feeding 704/768k to my DAVE these days, so USB wins.

[ecwl]

Sometimes I forget where I've posted and what I've said.

I think for most non-Chord DACs, even though they are jitter-resistant, they are still sufficiently prone to jitter so from a jitter perspective: USB has less than S/PDIF which has less than Toslink. (There are obviously exceptions like you can re-clock your S/PDIF coax/BNC like crazy). That's why for most DACs, USB sounds better than S/PDIF and definitely than Toslink.

 

Chord DACs' inherent architecture of Pulse Array DAC is simply a lot more jitter immune. (In fact, the only other DAC that mimicks this architecture interestingly seems to be Mola Mola Tambaqui.) So I really don't find much of a difference between USB vs S/PDIF vs Toslink from a jitter perspective. However, if you're using an electrical connection like USB and S/PDIF, your DAC becomes susceptible to ground loop leakage current noise form your grounded sources (which I think is the main reason why people complain about Chord's switching power supply even if they could have just improved their power supplies upstream from cable modem, router, NAS, desktop and streamer source). Since it's much harder to address upstream ground loop noise, I myself have switched over to Toslink to solve this problem.

 

Ultimately, this is system dependent. And sometimes, I have definitely seen some people prefer more ground loop noise so personal preference also plays a role.

[barrows]

11 minutes ago, ecwl said:

However, if you're using an electrical connection like USB and S/PDIF, your DAC becomes susceptible to ground loop leakage current noise form your grounded sources

For me, the above, is a good reason to use a floating USB source.  But whether or not the USB source actually presents a problem is also related to how the USB input in the DAC is implemented.  Some USB inputs will be immune to whether or not the USB source is grounded or floating, and some are not.  To be clear, the USB source does not have to be grounded. 

[Gavin1977]

42 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

One of the best values in audio is the (now discontinued) Chromecast Audio end point, with toslink to DAVE/Hugo2/etc.  $50 to test the optical interface, and for most folks, as far as they will want to go (search for "Chromecast" here for details https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto•dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#item-review-22155 )

 

When I was still using mScaler, my preferred interface was Matrix Audio XSPDIF 2 (USB in, TOSLINK out) to mScaler.  It was only when I started doing software upsampling that I went back to USB (alas, TOSLINK is limited to 192k, or I would still be there)  The Monoprice Slimrun optical USB is a step up for USB, but toslink is still better SQ for sample rates <192k.  Alas, I'm feeding 704/768k to my DAVE these days, so USB wins.

Very useful thanks @ray-dude

[Gavin1977]

On 1/27/2021 at 4:17 PM, ray-dude said:

One of the best values in audio is the (now discontinued) Chromecast Audio end point, with toslink to DAVE/Hugo2/etc.  $50 to test the optical interface, and for most folks, as far as they will want to go (search for "Chromecast" here for details https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto•dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#item-review-22155 )

 

When I was still using mScaler, my preferred interface was Matrix Audio XSPDIF 2 (USB in, TOSLINK out) to mScaler.  It was only when I started doing software upsampling that I went back to USB (alas, TOSLINK is limited to 192k, or I would still be there)  The Monoprice Slimrun optical USB is a step up for USB, but toslink is still better SQ for sample rates <192k.  Alas, I'm feeding 704/768k to my DAVE these days, so USB wins.

I have a Matrix Audio XSPDIF 2 up and running... nice SQ uplift on the qutest.

 

What is the opinion on using an external linear power supply with it, rather than it being powered from USB bus?  Anyone tested?

[ray-dude]

I had a nice lift powering my Matrix Audio XSPDIF 2 with a LPS 1.2.  I miss that relaxed presentation, but I'm a sucker for transient timing (aka, more taps!).  Slowly getting back to that place, but it is taking a lot of effort.  Everyone should at least try the optical in on a Chord DAC, just to hear that baseline.

[Gavin1977]

Definitely - Chord qutest with reclocked optical is significantly better than feeding it USB in my experience (despite its galvanic isolation).  I’m now very happy with its presentation.  Qutest via USB sounds dull as dishwater in comparison and so would have got rid of it pretty quickly.

 

Does the DAVE come to life (gains presence) once you remove the polluting RF as well?  I tried the DAVE but found the sound too recessed and lacking that live performance feel (was fed USB), wondered if it’s worth me getting a loaner again based on this new config or if this characteristic will remain the same in the DAVE, compared to the qutest/Hugo/TT2 which have different tuning.

[ecwl]

58 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Does the DAVE come to life (gains presence) once you remove the polluting RF as well?  I tried the DAVE but found the sound too recessed and lacking that live performance feel (was fed USB), wondered if it’s worth me getting a loaner again based on this new config or if this characteristic will remain the same in the DAVE, compared to the qutest/Hugo/TT2 which have different tuning.

yes. Feed Dave toslink. 
 

The problem with Toslink vs USB is that this is very system dependent. I’ve tried over and over again to improve my USB source, reduce ground loop leakage noise, and with every improvement the sound does get closer and closer to battery operated modern laptop feeding USB or grounded Toslink source. In fact because one of my old LPS1 was dying I got a new UpTone LPS1.2 to power my UltraRendu streamer and for fun, I tried running it USB with DAVE again and it definitely sounded better than with old LPS1 power supply but it’s still not exactly like Toslink. Maybe adding the EtherRendu would help but I’m not sure. I personally don’t think DAVE or Qutest are particularly sensitive to RF compared to non-Chord DACs. I just think you can hear so much more with chord DACs that these subtle RF or ground loop noise issues just become more apparent. But I’m sure others might disagree with me. 

[taipan254]

Random question that is not related to Optical... Does anyone run their Qutest directly from their RCA outputs? I've basically hooked up my high sensitivity Campfire ARA's with the ifi IEMatch directly to the RCA outputs and use digital volume control... it's been a lot of fun but I'm curious if others do this as well or have a better solution with respect interfacing the Qutest with high sensitivity IEMs! 

 

Thanks!

[Gavin1977]

8 hours ago, taipan254 said:

Random question that is not related to Optical... Does anyone run their Qutest directly from their RCA outputs? I've basically hooked up my high sensitivity Campfire ARA's with the ifi IEMatch directly to the RCA outputs and use digital volume control... it's been a lot of fun but I'm curious if others do this as well or have a better solution with respect interfacing the Qutest with high sensitivity IEMs! 

 

Thanks!

I did run qutest direct to power amp and used HQPlayer digital volume control.  Worked well.  I guess you also have the option of 1v output as well.

 

I have a Audio-gd Master 9 pre/headphone amp - is transparent to source so no reason  for me to run the DAC direct.

 

I’d always be nervous about running IEMs direct. But I guess you have some safety features.

[Gavin1977]

9 hours ago, ecwl said:

yes. Feed Dave toslink. 
 

The problem with Toslink vs USB is that this is very system dependent. I’ve tried over and over again to improve my USB source, reduce ground loop leakage noise, and with every improvement the sound does get closer and closer to battery operated modern laptop feeding USB or grounded Toslink source. In fact because one of my old LPS1 was dying I got a new UpTone LPS1.2 to power my UltraRendu streamer and for fun, I tried running it USB with DAVE again and it definitely sounded better than with old LPS1 power supply but it’s still not exactly like Toslink. Maybe adding the EtherRendu would help but I’m not sure. I personally don’t think DAVE or Qutest are particularly sensitive to RF compared to non-Chord DACs. I just think you can hear so much more with chord DACs that these subtle RF or ground loop noise issues just become more apparent. But I’m sure others might disagree with me. 

EtherRendu = ISO REGEN?  

[ecwl]

5 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

EtherRendu = ISO REGEN?  

EtherRendu reclocks the Ethernet stream to your streamer (which may not help with Chord DACs, I don’t know) AND more importantly, blocks high impedance leakage current noise from upstream Ethernet devices from getting into your streamer which I suspect would improve the performance of my UltraRendu if I insist on running USB to Chord DAC. 

I might still buy one and if it doesn’t perform to my satisfaction, I can always put it on my video system. Not sure yet as I might just upgrade my speakers soon.

[matthias]

11 minutes ago, ecwl said:

EtherRendu

 

EtherRegen?

 

Matt

[ecwl]

1 hour ago, matthias said:

 

EtherRegen?

 

Matt

Haha. Yes. I shouldn’t type before my morning coffee

[Middy]

Anyone know if the circuits on the inputs are depowered when not selected? I got results using IfI isilencers on unused ports on the NUC. I assumed it filtered the 5v usb bus noise and thats what helped.

I am outputing from a Nord easy-stream 3 via 48 digital RCA. So the USB in is free... Its hard to tell so wondering A no effect B. Not powered ie microswitch or software cuts off the power?

 

Just a silly experiment and waiting for an USB  to RJ45 connector so i can try it in the streamer as i am using WIFI. A couple have used IFI'S in unused ports and got meaningful results. Some dont like them inline with the USB cables but i gained on the unused ports...

It might not work on the RJ45 either but worth a punt for £2 connector.

External filtering is the last chance for a tweak on the Qutest/ streamer..

2 LPS1 doing the donkey work..

 

Dave

[Gavin1977]

4 hours ago, ecwl said:

EtherRendu reclocks the Ethernet stream to your streamer (which may not help with Chord DACs, I don’t know) AND more importantly, blocks high impedance leakage current noise from upstream Ethernet devices from getting into your streamer which I suspect would improve the performance of my UltraRendu if I insist on running USB to Chord DAC. 

I might still buy one and if it doesn’t perform to my satisfaction, I can always put it on my video system. Not sure yet as I might just upgrade my speakers soon.

I used to have an EtherRegen - good device.  It's effect/purpose is somewhat different to the IsoRegen though.  I'm mainly interested in the performance disparity between optical and usb at the moment.