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1 hour ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I see no advantage in having a networked connection on the DAC.  Wasted space, cost, let alone a potential noisy source.  Why add it?  It is not the panacea you guys think it is.  It has a whole host of issues concerning electrical noise and it's interaction with a DAC.  I'm not in the least bit interested in a companies products going this route.

Do you really think USB is  better?  There’s an entire cottage industry associated with USB isolation/cleaning/reclocking etc.

 

Speaking from personal experience, I would take a network connection over USB any day. 

BPT 3.5 Ultra/Reference 3A Reflectors/MSB Technology S201 Amplifier/MSB Technology Analog DAC/MSB Technology Network Renderer/Audirvana +

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2 hours ago, catastrofe said:

Do you really think USB is  better?  There’s an entire cottage industry associated with USB isolation/cleaning/reclocking etc.

 

Speaking from personal experience, I would take a network connection over USB any day. 

Emphatically, yes.  Keep it short as possible.  In my system it's 1 USPCB long.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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8 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Emphatically, yes.  Keep it short as possible.  In my system it's 1 USPCB long.

Have you ever listened to a network connected DAC in your own system for comparison to USB?

BPT 3.5 Ultra/Reference 3A Reflectors/MSB Technology S201 Amplifier/MSB Technology Analog DAC/MSB Technology Network Renderer/Audirvana +

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2 hours ago, catastrofe said:

Have you ever listened to a network connected DAC in your own system for comparison to USB?

Never.  I don't stream.  Closed system.  Don't even allow a network connection to taint my server system.  For comparison, I see all the problems they ran into for the sCLK-EX trifecta system.  Turns out there is alot more going on with ethernet and wifi network connections.  Not interested in that mess.  Have my simple USB sCLK-EX server system playing perfectly for these ears.  Keep it simple!!

  Server=>DAC=>Speakers  

If I wanted to, I do have a reclocked sCLK-EX point on the LAN for streaming to the server if I ever get the itch.  Nah, what for?

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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9 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Never.  I don't stream.  Closed system.  Don't even allow a network connection to taint my server system.  For comparison, I see all the problems they ran into for the sCLK-EX trifecta system.  Turns out there is alot more going on with ethernet and wifi network connections.  Not interested in that mess.  Have my simple USB sCLK-EX server system playing perfectly for these ears.  Keep it simple!!

  Server=>DAC=>Speakers  

If I wanted to, I do have a reclocked sCLK-EX point on the LAN for streaming to the server if I ever get the itch.  Nah, what for?

Then you’re making an assumption that a network connection is noisy, and/or noisier than a USB connection.   And we all know where assumptions get us...?

BPT 3.5 Ultra/Reference 3A Reflectors/MSB Technology S201 Amplifier/MSB Technology Analog DAC/MSB Technology Network Renderer/Audirvana +

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2 hours ago, catastrofe said:

Then you’re making an assumption that a network connection is noisy, and/or noisier than a USB connection.   And we all know where assumptions get us...?

 

It's no assumption, it's fact.  Go thru this thread below and just see all the trials and tribulations they had with ethernet/networking in perfecting the sCLK-EX trifecta, only in the end to go back to the server direct via USB using the modified sCLK-EX server.  I don't need to walk on lava to know that it burns.

 

 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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6 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

It's no assumption, it's fact.  Go thru this thread below and just see all the trials and tribulations they had with eithernet/networking in perfecting the sCLK-EX trifecta, only in the end to go back to the server direct via USB using the modified sCLK-EX server.  I don't need to walk on lava to know that it burns.

 

 

That’s one example from which you’re drawing a broad-based conclusion about the entire methodology. That’s flawed logic. 

 

I’ve been involved with “computer” based audio for close to 10 years, starting with a computer (Mac), then a dedicated server such as you indicate you’re using, then to a network player.  I’ve also had DACS with built in network connectivity (PS Audio and MSB).  The cleanest (least noisy) connections were the networked DACS, followed by the network players (USB out to a DAC), followed by the dedicated server (USB or I2S out), and lastly the Mac.

BPT 3.5 Ultra/Reference 3A Reflectors/MSB Technology S201 Amplifier/MSB Technology Analog DAC/MSB Technology Network Renderer/Audirvana +

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It's the most comprehensive thread with many participants that I draw on.  I don't disagree that network unrefined against unrefined USB is a better solution.  BUT, in getting the best SQ, network is flawed,  USB/server in the end are the better path with care to power/isolation and clocking.  That is my experience in a nutshell.  Once the audio stream has been damaged, it takes alot of work to fix to adequate.  And you can't fix a stream coming via internet, entirely.  Not like a server where you have total control.   Best to take care with the audio stream from ground zero, the server direct to DAC, shortest cleanest path possible.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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8 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

It's the most comprehensive thread with many participants that I draw on.  I don't disagree that network unrefined against unrefined USB is a better solution.  BUT, in getting the best SQ, network is flawed,  USB/server in the end are the better path with care to power/isolation and clocking.  That is my experience in a nutshell.  Once the audio stream has been damaged, it takes alot of work to fix to adequate.  And you can't fix a stream coming via internet, entirely.  Not like a server where you have total control.   Best to take care with the audio stream from ground zero, the server.

But you’re using the challenges of one hardware setup (the SOtM “trifecta”) to indict an entire process.  That’s just plain wrong. 

 

Also, a DAC with built in network connectivity is a somewhat different animal than the SOtM trifecta. 

 

But you can go on believing as you wish...

 

BPT 3.5 Ultra/Reference 3A Reflectors/MSB Technology S201 Amplifier/MSB Technology Analog DAC/MSB Technology Network Renderer/Audirvana +

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2 hours ago, catastrofe said:

But you can go on believing as you wish...

 

Don't worry, I shall, until shown differently (meaning credible live testing), which hasn't happened for some time now.  It's been a long journey and there is a grand plan to it all.  

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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I was asked and I gave my opinion.  Just as you have.  I also disagree with you on the galvanic isolation or at least am not yet convinced that there is a free lunch.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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9 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I was asked and I gave my opinion.  Just as you have.  I also disagree with you on the galvanic isolation or at least am not yet convinced that there is a free lunch.

You would do well to educate on the actual technical aspects of such things.  Spreading beliefs which have no basis in technical reality is a dis-service to the community.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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3 hours ago, barrows said:

You would do well to educate on the actual technical aspects of such things.  Spreading beliefs which have no basis in technical reality is a dis-service to the community.

I find our testing thru live listening, comparison goes far further in educated experience/help than any back seat technical science explanations, which do far more dis-service to the community.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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14 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Never.  I don't stream.  Closed system.  Don't even allow a network connection to taint my server system.  For comparison, I see all the problems they ran into for the sCLK-EX trifecta system.  Turns out there is alot more going on with ethernet and wifi network connections.  Not interested in that mess.  Have my simple USB sCLK-EX server system playing perfectly for these ears.  Keep it simple!!

  Server=>DAC=>Speakers  

If I wanted to, I do have a reclocked sCLK-EX point on the LAN for streaming to the server if I ever get the itch.  Nah, what for?

 

 

Interesting.  I was wondering if you don't have an ethernet connection to your server how do you control what music is played (I'm assuming your music is on the server or attached to the server e.g. via a USB disk) ?

NUC 7i3 (ROCK) > Ghent Audio Lan cable > SOtM sMS-200 (+Uptone LPS-1) >  0.2m Curious USB cable > Singxer F1 (usb to spdif) > 0.5m XLO digital cable > Audiolab 8000 Dac (25 years old) > Trends Audio 10.1 Integrated Amp > Kef 103/4 speakers

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25 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I find our testing thru live listening, comparison goes far further in educated experience/help than any back seat technical science explanations, which do far more dis-service to the community.

Now you're being hypocritical. 

If live listening is your litmus test, and you've never personally compared network to USB, you have no foundation.  You state that live listening goes farther than technical science explanations, yet you use the "scientific" thread about the SOtM "trifecta" as your only evidence that a network connection is noisier than USB.

 

So which is it: listening or science? 

 

 

 

 

BPT 3.5 Ultra/Reference 3A Reflectors/MSB Technology S201 Amplifier/MSB Technology Analog DAC/MSB Technology Network Renderer/Audirvana +

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2 hours ago, catastrofe said:

Now you're being hypocritical. 

If live listening is your litmus test, and you've never personally compared network to USB, you have no foundation.  You state that live listening goes farther than technical science explanations, yet you use the "scientific" thread about the SOtM "trifecta" as your only evidence that a network connection is noisier than USB.

 

So which is it: listening or science? 

 

It is a group of people who have shown to be honest to their listening tests, live, then you can have many experiences to compare with without having to do all the live listening yourself.  

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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38 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I find our testing thru live listening, comparison goes far further in educated experience/help than any back seat technical science explanations, which do far more dis-service to the community.

I have no problems with listening evaluations when combined informed technical understanding.  But complete lack of understanding of either approach will steer people wrong.

 

A well implemented isolated USB input is proper engineering has no possible negative impact on sound quality.  If you think it does have a negative impact, you are just wrong, it is not a matter of opinion or listening.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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2 hours ago, jaspal kallar said:

 

 

Interesting.  I was wondering if you don't have an ethernet connection to your server how do you control what music is played (I'm assuming your music is on the server or attached to the server e.g. via a USB disk) ?

All my music is stored on a partitioned HDD for OS and DATA via SATA II port.  If I want further DATA I can attach a USB drive to a reclocked USB input on my server.  To control the music, via mouse on a DVI attached monitor.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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2 hours ago, barrows said:

 

A well implemented isolated USB input is proper engineering has possible negative impact on sound quality.  If you think it does have a negative impact, you are just wrong, it is not a matter of opinion or listening.

 

On this, GI, I have no experience to compare with, so it may well be as you say and manufacturer claims.  But I am skeptical and not all GI implementations are equal.  Chord seems to have one of the better designs.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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3 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

On this, I have no experience to compare, so it may well be as you say.  But I am skeptical.

What is the source of this skepticism?

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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14 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

It is a group of people who have shown to be honest to their listening tests, live, then you can have many experiences to compare with without having to do all the live listening yourself.  

But you've conducted none of this listening yourself, and you're relying on others to do your thinking for you.  Do you know these peopler personally?  How do you know they're being honest and unbiased?  You admit that you haven't conducted the same listening exercise yourself, so you're merely taking someone else's word as gospel and parroting their findings.

BPT 3.5 Ultra/Reference 3A Reflectors/MSB Technology S201 Amplifier/MSB Technology Analog DAC/MSB Technology Network Renderer/Audirvana +

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5 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Various postings from John Swenson here on the forum.

I work with JS, and I have never heard him say anything negative regarding the proper implementation of a USB interface in a DAC.  Perhaps you have mis-interpreted him...

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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