Gavin1977 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 I tried a DAVE, technically perfect, but I didn't like it as the soundstage was way too set back for my liking. I now have the qutest. Works better for me in the fact that everything is somewhat more upfront and vocals have presence (slightly more forward?). I do find it a more darker sounding DAC than the DAVE though, the highs are also somewhat recessed, and this decreases it's realism IMO. I use the incisive neutral filter and Oyaide Tunami Terzo RR v2 and Sablon 2020 USB. I previously found the tonal balance of the Yggy about perfect, but the noise floor of that DAC was not good enough for me. Any tips on how to tune the qutest to my taste - upsampling, use spdif instead of USB, external linear power supply? Any thoughts? Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 I'll try these suggestions and report back... SPDIF is first on the list. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Owning a T+A DAC8 DSD I can say with confidence that HQPlayer works best with the ‘DSD direct’ approach. Definitely recommend in this application (or R2R/multi-bit). Chord DACs aren’t as transparent to HQPLAYER upsampling IMO. I have owned Hugo, Mojo, Hugo TT, Hugo 2 and tried the DAVE so I don’t think it will be any different with the qutest. However, HQPLAYER embedded is a great uPNP endpoint. Works well for me so that’s why I’m also using it with the qutest. Presently no upsampling used within my test, but I will try again. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 36 minutes ago, ecwl said: Sorry... When you use HQPlayer upsampling to Chord DACs, what are you upsampling to? Is it 768kHz or are you using the HQPLAYER DSD upsampling? And out of curiosity, which upsampling filter do you like? It sounds like most people are using Sinc-M with LNS15 to 384/768kHz for R2R or Chord DACs? But I'm not totally sure because I don't follow HQPLAYER closely. I love Sinc-m via dsd to the T+A and it is what I use every day. Closed form is supposedly a close match to the m-scaler. This would be my second choice - it has a good soundstage. Some pcm DACs respond well to FIR upsampling. I have only ever used PCM to chord DAC’s, never tried sending them DSD to be honest because reviews say don’t bother. If I use a chord DAC then I upsample to the highest possible rate, I’ve not really tried intermediate rates from HQPLAYER. I compare either red book direct or upsample to the maximum rate. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, fds said: With the Mojo, Sinc-M and Sinc-L with LNS15 to 384/768kHz is very good I find. Somehow, I find Sinc-L to offer more physicality and Sinc-M more transparency for complex classical pieces. Actually, I also liked a lot what I heard when feeding the Mojo with DSD256/ASDM7/Sinc-M or Sinc-L ... but I would need a more powerful PC for this to work with PCM source files without stuttering; DSD source files are easier on the PC in this setting. (In fact, it is this PC power limitation that forces me to use poly-sinc-ext2 at DSD512 with ASDM7 with the T+A DAC8DSD. Sinc-M/L do not work without dropouts at this rate unfortunately.) Similar findings as @fds Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Running 3v output on the qutest definitely improves things compared to 1v or 2v... just opens up the sound. I also added a buffalo bs-gs2016 in yesterday, which has added solidity to the sound... I’m not running optical yet, just a cheap CAT5 patch cable. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 On 1/22/2021 at 6:37 PM, Gavin1977 said: I love Sinc-m via dsd to the T+A and it is what I use every day. Closed form is supposedly a close match to the m-scaler. This would be my second choice - it has a good soundstage. Some pcm DACs respond well to FIR upsampling. I have only ever used PCM to chord DAC’s, never tried sending them DSD to be honest because reviews say don’t bother. If I use a chord DAC then I upsample to the highest possible rate, I’ve not really tried intermediate rates from HQPLAYER. I compare either red book direct or upsample to the maximum rate. Just finished a session with HQPlayer and the Qutest... my favourite so far with the qutest was poly-sync-xtr-mp, TPDF dither, 44.1 upsample to 705.6 kbps. This combination added some additional transparency/veil lifting, but to be honest it is not 'night and day' compared to using regular pcm (no upsampling). This does reinforce my earlier belief that you need a 'DSD Direct', Multi-bit, or R2R DAC to get the most out of HQPlayer. With these types of a DAC's I have heard quite remarkable shifts in playback quality. Chord products, and probably delta-sigma based chips (like Sabre), just don't benefit as much. Better to just rely on their own internal processing pathway. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Miska said: The digital oversampling filters already make a big difference, even just one step up from 44.1k to 88.2k. Of course if you try to find HQPlayer filter that is as similar sounding as Chord's WTA then the difference could be smaller. But if you look for the most different one, there can be quite a bit of difference. Thanks - I can hear the difference. But the change is not as significant as with a 'DSD direct' DAC IMO. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 There is definitely merit to spdif investigations. I did a further test this morning and the soundstage is better constructed using spdif, with a noticeable increase in soundstage height compared to USB (and my USB set up is pretty darn good). This is through speakers of course. I will also try spdif with the warm filter as well, as it might keep the soundstage and bring the signature closer to USB compared to the neutral filter. Optical cables: Audioquest diamond, Sysconcept 24/192 and lifatec... any further thoughts on these and suggestions? Can any of these increase dynamics? Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 27 minutes ago, fds said: Very interesting and surprising to me ... I would have never expected that spdif will be comparable or even better than USB. Same here... I haven’t used optical for a long time (influenced by high res >192 I guess). Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 There is also a further option - Monoprice slim run to USB. So you can have the higher data rates of USB, but with optical isolation. @ray-dude does the same here on these forums. I do not know which option is better for Chord DACs without purchasing both a slim run and a high quality optical cable. Seems that the Atlas Mavros Optical is the best one for me, as can be purchased at a reasonable £167 in the UK and compares well with the AQ Diamond Optical by all accounts. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Gavin1977 said: There is also a further option - Monoprice slim run to USB. So you can have the higher data rates of USB, but with optical isolation. @ray-dude does the same here on these forums. I do not know which option is better for Chord DACs without purchasing both a slim run and a high quality optical cable. Seems that the Atlas Mavros Optical is the best one for me, as can be purchased at a reasonable £167 in the UK and compares well with the AQ Diamond Optical by all accounts. Scrap that, I'm going to stick with a new toslink. Apparently the issue with the monoprice slimrun is it would only play a handful of tracks with the JCAT USB XE card before stalling / appearing dead. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 42 minutes ago, ray-dude said: One of the best values in audio is the (now discontinued) Chromecast Audio end point, with toslink to DAVE/Hugo2/etc. $50 to test the optical interface, and for most folks, as far as they will want to go (search for "Chromecast" here for details https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto•dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#item-review-22155 ) When I was still using mScaler, my preferred interface was Matrix Audio XSPDIF 2 (USB in, TOSLINK out) to mScaler. It was only when I started doing software upsampling that I went back to USB (alas, TOSLINK is limited to 192k, or I would still be there) The Monoprice Slimrun optical USB is a step up for USB, but toslink is still better SQ for sample rates <192k. Alas, I'm feeding 704/768k to my DAVE these days, so USB wins. Very useful thanks @ray-dude Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/27/2021 at 4:17 PM, ray-dude said: One of the best values in audio is the (now discontinued) Chromecast Audio end point, with toslink to DAVE/Hugo2/etc. $50 to test the optical interface, and for most folks, as far as they will want to go (search for "Chromecast" here for details https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto•dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#item-review-22155 ) When I was still using mScaler, my preferred interface was Matrix Audio XSPDIF 2 (USB in, TOSLINK out) to mScaler. It was only when I started doing software upsampling that I went back to USB (alas, TOSLINK is limited to 192k, or I would still be there) The Monoprice Slimrun optical USB is a step up for USB, but toslink is still better SQ for sample rates <192k. Alas, I'm feeding 704/768k to my DAVE these days, so USB wins. I have a Matrix Audio XSPDIF 2 up and running... nice SQ uplift on the qutest. What is the opinion on using an external linear power supply with it, rather than it being powered from USB bus? Anyone tested? Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Definitely - Chord qutest with reclocked optical is significantly better than feeding it USB in my experience (despite its galvanic isolation). I’m now very happy with its presentation. Qutest via USB sounds dull as dishwater in comparison and so would have got rid of it pretty quickly. Does the DAVE come to life (gains presence) once you remove the polluting RF as well? I tried the DAVE but found the sound too recessed and lacking that live performance feel (was fed USB), wondered if it’s worth me getting a loaner again based on this new config or if this characteristic will remain the same in the DAVE, compared to the qutest/Hugo/TT2 which have different tuning. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 8 hours ago, taipan254 said: Random question that is not related to Optical... Does anyone run their Qutest directly from their RCA outputs? I've basically hooked up my high sensitivity Campfire ARA's with the ifi IEMatch directly to the RCA outputs and use digital volume control... it's been a lot of fun but I'm curious if others do this as well or have a better solution with respect interfacing the Qutest with high sensitivity IEMs! Thanks! I did run qutest direct to power amp and used HQPlayer digital volume control. Worked well. I guess you also have the option of 1v output as well. I have a Audio-gd Master 9 pre/headphone amp - is transparent to source so no reason for me to run the DAC direct. I’d always be nervous about running IEMs direct. But I guess you have some safety features. taipan254 1 Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 9 hours ago, ecwl said: yes. Feed Dave toslink. The problem with Toslink vs USB is that this is very system dependent. I’ve tried over and over again to improve my USB source, reduce ground loop leakage noise, and with every improvement the sound does get closer and closer to battery operated modern laptop feeding USB or grounded Toslink source. In fact because one of my old LPS1 was dying I got a new UpTone LPS1.2 to power my UltraRendu streamer and for fun, I tried running it USB with DAVE again and it definitely sounded better than with old LPS1 power supply but it’s still not exactly like Toslink. Maybe adding the EtherRendu would help but I’m not sure. I personally don’t think DAVE or Qutest are particularly sensitive to RF compared to non-Chord DACs. I just think you can hear so much more with chord DACs that these subtle RF or ground loop noise issues just become more apparent. But I’m sure others might disagree with me. EtherRendu = ISO REGEN? Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 4 hours ago, ecwl said: EtherRendu reclocks the Ethernet stream to your streamer (which may not help with Chord DACs, I don’t know) AND more importantly, blocks high impedance leakage current noise from upstream Ethernet devices from getting into your streamer which I suspect would improve the performance of my UltraRendu if I insist on running USB to Chord DAC. I might still buy one and if it doesn’t perform to my satisfaction, I can always put it on my video system. Not sure yet as I might just upgrade my speakers soon. I used to have an EtherRegen - good device. It's effect/purpose is somewhat different to the IsoRegen though. I'm mainly interested in the performance disparity between optical and usb at the moment. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 BNC vs Toslink. Anyone compared on the qutest? Link to comment
Popular Post Gavin1977 Posted February 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2021 Hi Middy - completely agree. My experience with glass optical and a matrix audio x-spdif 2 have been really good. There's a dearth of information out there. But here is what I have found: Regular PCM - use toslink. Performance will not be matched for regular PCM. Clocking and glass cables work well to retain detail (chord DACs cannot recover lost information, same as other DAC's to be fair, they only remove jitter). Rates over 24/96 - a very good usb converter/DDC with a good linear power supply. Otherwise noise gets injected into the USB receiver. Unfortunately you can't use an unpowered usb cable with the Chord. Potentially even better is some form of optical isolation Monoprice slimrun, audiowise. Coax or dual data coax will likely perform slightly better, this is mainly because RF/EMI from the USB received is not present when using coax - coax signals are decoded on the FPGA. This is why the m-scaler uses coax IMO (also a reason why Naim used spdif as well, and tend not to have USB on their DACs). Took me a while to find this out, Dan at Audiowise was very helpful. Chord have said they will update they're marketing, it presently states 24/192 over toslink, that incorrect. The qutest can only do 24/96. Middy and jos 2 Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Quote ”Yes sure; all mains powered DAC/amps will have isolation. And USB sounds very close to optical - sometimes I could hear no difference going back and forth, sometimes I got the impression that USB had better resolution, and optical perhaps better depth. If there is a difference, it's inconsequential - at least via my mains powered MSI lap-top on headphones.” https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-tt-2-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.879425/page-19#post-14245637 I’m going to have to compare again, just to confirm my thoughts Middy 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Gavin1977 Posted July 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, OldBigEars said: I still use my Qutest pretty much standard, except for the iPower X PS. I haven't compared it recently to the stock PS but when I first bought it I was satisfied it's slightly better. I choose to not send it back, after all. Aside from that, I'm feeding my Qutest through its USB drive via an OpticalRendu. The Qutest in turn feeds my Belles Aria, and then my Kudos Super 20's. It's a decent level of performance, but some recordings can occasionally sound slightly bright. So I'm intrigued by the possibility of taking my Qutest to the next level with (a) an SBooster / Ultra PS and (b) Audiowise SRC DX Bridge, enabling double-BNC connection with my OpticalRendu. From all the various reports, this should be a nice upgrade for around $1000. But that begs the question....My Qutest becomes a $2700 DAC....should I sell and simply buy a new DAC such as a Denafrips Venus? R2R DACs sound quite different - After comparing I’ve decided I prefer the Chord sound (incisive and better imaging than R2R IMO). The only way is for you to listen for yourself. I would stick with Chord and go for the SRC first personally. Middy and kennyb123 1 1 Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, ecwl said: To me, the challenge with Chord modern DACs is that they're so revealing, despite their USB galvanic isolation, they're as susceptible as other DACs to ground loop leakage current RF noise except the problem is much more audible because of the DACs' transparency. At least that's my experience with Mojo, Hugo 2, DAVE, M-Scaler and my friend's Qutest. I tried minimizing the issue by using an Uptone LPS1 & now LPS1.2 to feed my UltraRendu and grounded my NAS, router, network switch, cable modem. In the end, I just couldn't get the sound to be 100% identical to having my iPad feed the DAC USB. So I ended up using a USB to Toslink adaptor to feed my Chord DAC and voila. I know most DACs don't perform as well via Toslink because of the extra jitter but I do think that Chord DAC's pulse array DAC is extra jitter immune by comparison. As for the stock switching power supply vs iPower X PS, I believe Rob Watts the designer specifically design the internal Qutest RF filters to match the RF issues of the stock switching power supply. So I'm slightly surprised you prefer iPower X PS. If you have a spare/cheap USB to Toslink converter around, I'd strongly recommend you try it with the Qutest. I think the Qutest comes with a cheap Tosink cable and you can just use that cable. I know some people tell me that they don't like the sound of Toslink from Chord DACs. There is always that. But to me, Toslink sounds identical to battery-powered USB from my iPad or newer laptop which I presumed to be the reference sound. Fully support this - also of note, yes there is a slight difference using ‘audiophile’ toslink cables, but it’s only a small difference - the cheap plastic toslink cable included with the qutest is fine. The main improvement occurs by moving away from USB to toslink/bnc. Link to comment
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