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birdland45
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I'm a newbie to computer audio and would like some help.  I tried to search but I haven't found anything describing exactly what I would to do.

 

Background

I used to use a portable laptop connected via USB to my W4S DAC to play music.  However, Ii wanted to get rid of the computer aspect.  So first, I recently purchased an ultraRendu and ultraDigital so I could use the superior I2S input on the W4S DAC and go up to DSD256.  I used JRiver and DLNA on the ultraRendu to play music from my desktop to test things out.  I used the new Panel interface of JRiver to control playback via my iPhone.  Of course, I still have a computer involved.  I really wanted a self-contained quiet setup.  Hence, I purchased a sonicTransporter i5.  This is where I am running into problems.

 

There are two ways I can go since I do not want to use Roon if I can help it.  I can either use Minimserver or Squeezebox server on the sonicTransporter but I have been unable to set either up properly.  I initially had issues because I was trying to use a USB thumb drive on the ST i5 but it was not recognized so I finally connected my USB disk drive to the ST and even though it was formatted as NTFS, it was recognized and I could mount it on the ST.

 

I have no idea what has to be done on the ST and the ultraRendu to get either the minimserver or Squeezebox server working properly OR which player I can use on my iPhone to send the data from the ST to the ultraRendu.

 

For Squeezebox, I did install it and was able to get it to see my music on the mounted drive on the ST and I could even see the data on my PC.  However, I could not get squeezelite installed properly on the ultraRendu.  It was always showing up as stopped.  I do not know if I need some other app installed as well on the ultraRendu.  Of course, the ST says it cannot find a player which I assume is the ultraRendu or maybe it is supposed to be an app on the iPhone.

 

For minimserver, I did not get very far and do not know what I need to do on both the ST or the ultraRendu or which player to use.  I could not find the mounted drive on my PC and was not sure how to enter in the actual network mapping under explorer to see that the drive it actually being exported from the ST.  I probably could have figured out what the string is that I require but really that is only for verification and it doesn't really get me that much closer to getting everything set up so I can just play music.

 

As you can see, I need help. ;)

 

If anyone can offer some help or point me to some articles which explain one or both ways of doing things so I can decide which method I would rather use, it would be very much appreciated.

 

In case it matters, the music I have is:

 

- FLAC - from CD quality all the way to 24b/352kHz

- DSD - DSD64 to DSD256

- Apple uncompressed

 

Regards,

Walter

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1 hour ago, birdland45 said:

There are two ways I can go since I do not want to use Roon if I can help it

 

Well, you could start testing with Roon 9_9

 

As that probably will get things up an running.

 

Here is a two months trail for Roon

NL1601HBPROJECT

 

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35 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

Well, you could start testing with Roon 9_9

 

As that probably will get things up an running.

 

Here is a two months trail for Roon

NL1601HBPROJECT

 

BUT I don't want to run Roon.  I do not require all of the bells and whistles it provides.  I am not interested in a subscription model (just like I am not interested in the subscription model from Adobe for Photoshop and Lightroom).

 

AND if I wanted to set up Roon, is there a place I can read how to set it up using the ST and ultraRendu?

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If you take the ultraRendu out of the loop and connect the SonicTransporter directly to your DAC, you'll probably have no trouble running Squeezelite on the SonicTransporter.  Then at least you'll know what to expect from LMS and Squeeze-whatever, and can experiment with plug-ins and such.

 

The ultraRendu will run the same way when it settles down; it reacts badly to any change in connections, taking a long time to find your DAC again. That is probably why Squeezelite is "Stopped" at first, but even after all devices have found each other again Squeezelite will take a while to come back. It's very frustrating.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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5 minutes ago, left channel said:

If you take the ultraRendu out of the loop and connect the SonicTransporter directly to your DAC, you'll probably have no trouble running Squeezelite on the SonicTransporter.  Then at least you'll know what to expect from LMS and Squeeze-whatever, and can experiment with plug-ins and such.

 

The ultraRendu will run the same way when it settles down; it reacts badly to any change in connections, taking a long time to find your DAC again. That is probably why Squeezelite is "Stopped" at first, but even after all devices have found each other again Squeezelite will take a while to come back. It's very frustrating.

Hi:

 

Thanks for responding.

 

Interesting.  However, I have no idea how the ST could be connected to the DAC.  The ST does not have a USB output or any other digital output.  It only has ethernet and USB inputs for drives.

 

The ultraRendu can see my DAC.  This is not the problem.  I don't know exactly what the problem is but I've had no issues with the ultraRendu using the DLNA app while it is connected to the ultraDigital which is what it considers to be the DAC even though it is just a USB to I2S converter using JRiver.  Yes, I did see at times that I had to restart the DLNA app if I shutdown JRiver on the PC for long periods and then start it up again.

 

I think I just did not set something up properly on the ultraRendu or the ST or both.  The fact that I could see the music on my desktop PC served from the ST via LMS was promising.  I think the problem was at the setup on the ultraRendu end.  I should have tried to get iPeng 9 to connect to the ST to see if at least that worked.

 

Does one require a account to make this work?

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52 minutes ago, birdland45 said:

AND if I wanted to set up Roon, is there a place I can read how to set it up using the ST and ultraRendu?

 

It's more or less self explaining :D

(And it's not necessary to do a subscription, as you get the lifetime option).

 

Actually your SonicTransporter is preinstalled with Roon !

So all you have to do us access your IP of the UltraRendu and choose RAAT/Roon.

 

And of cause choose your controller. iPad, iPhone, PC or what ever you like to use as a controller.

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43 minutes ago, left channel said:

If you take the ultraRendu out of the loop and connect the SonicTransporter directly to your DAC

 

Not necessary a good idea. Even if possible and can work in some cases, SMG does not suggest that's route.

 

Anyway, seen this:

 

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Interesting. I can't say for sure, because I have a microJukebox not a SonicTransporter, but those USB ports work both ways on mine and it hosts most of the same apps. That may well be the case with all SMG servers.

 

As for what SMG does or does not suggest, my impression is that Andrew's goal is a UI so intuitive you'll only need instructions from the developers of the hosted apps. And in the end, that's where the problem lies: in my experience yes the ultraRendu doesn't react well to changes, but long after it's recovered Squeezelite is apparently still confused for quite some time. That's not really a SMG or Sonore problem, mostly.

My microJukebox plays nicer with the DACs and apps here. It's worth a try to see if the ST will do so as well. At least then you'll be able to experiment and decide what you want the ultraRendu to run.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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12 hours ago, left channel said:

As for what SMG does or does not suggest, my impression is that Andrew's goal is a UI so intuitive you'll only need instructions from the developers of the hosted apps. And in the end, that's where the problem lies: in my experience yes the ultraRendu doesn't react well to changes, but long after it's recovered Squeezelite is apparently still confused for quite some time. That's not really a SMG or Sonore problem, mostly.

 

I'd say Squeezelite not behaving itself on the ultraRendu, while not a SMG problem, is most definitely a Sonore problem!

We will win because our NHS is the beating heart of this country. It is the best of this country. It is unconquerable. It is powered by love.

-- Boris Johnson

 

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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16 hours ago, birdland45 said:

I'm a newbie to computer audio and would like some help.  I tried to search but I haven't found anything describing exactly what I would to do.

 

Background

I used to use a portable laptop connected via USB to my W4S DAC to play music.  However, Ii wanted to get rid of the computer aspect.  So first, I recently purchased an ultraRendu and ultraDigital so I could use the superior I2S input on the W4S DAC and go up to DSD256.  I used JRiver and DLNA on the ultraRendu to play music from my desktop to test things out.  I used the new Panel interface of JRiver to control playback via my iPhone.  Of course, I still have a computer involved.  I really wanted a self-contained quiet setup.  Hence, I purchased a sonicTransporter i5.  This is where I am running into problems.

 

There are two ways I can go since I do not want to use Roon if I can help it.  I can either use Minimserver or Squeezebox server on the sonicTransporter but I have been unable to set either up properly.  I initially had issues because I was trying to use a USB thumb drive on the ST i5 but it was not recognized so I finally connected my USB disk drive to the ST and even though it was formatted as NTFS, it was recognized and I could mount it on the ST.

 

I have no idea what has to be done on the ST and the ultraRendu to get either the minimserver or Squeezebox server working properly OR which player I can use on my iPhone to send the data from the ST to the ultraRendu.

 

For Squeezebox, I did install it and was able to get it to see my music on the mounted drive on the ST and I could even see the data on my PC.  However, I could not get squeezelite installed properly on the ultraRendu.  It was always showing up as stopped.  I do not know if I need some other app installed as well on the ultraRendu.  Of course, the ST says it cannot find a player which I assume is the ultraRendu or maybe it is supposed to be an app on the iPhone.

 

For minimserver, I did not get very far and do not know what I need to do on both the ST or the ultraRendu or which player to use.  I could not find the mounted drive on my PC and was not sure how to enter in the actual network mapping under explorer to see that the drive it actually being exported from the ST.  I probably could have figured out what the string is that I require but really that is only for verification and it doesn't really get me that much closer to getting everything set up so I can just play music.

 

As you can see, I need help. ;)

 

If anyone can offer some help or point me to some articles which explain one or both ways of doing things so I can decide which method I would rather use, it would be very much appreciated.

 

In case it matters, the music I have is:

 

- FLAC - from CD quality all the way to 24b/352kHz

- DSD - DSD64 to DSD256

- Apple uncompressed

 

Regards,

Walter

 

Hi Walter,

 

First thing I should point out that in your setup, the network audio file player is actually in the ultraRendu, so either Squeezelite or the UPnP/DLNA renderer (depending on which you have selected to output to the attached DAC). Any related app on the iPhone would be a 'controller' rather than a 'player'.

 

The sonicTransporter's Squeezebox server, specifically the Logitech Media Server application, has a built-in web server to allow you to control any Squeezebox type player (eg the ultraRendu's Squeezelite) connected to it, from a web browser running on any machine on the network - so even using your iPhone's web browser. The same LMS web server also provides some pages for configuring LMS's advanced settings.The default web address for LMS's built-in controller web page is:

aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd:9000

where aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd is the IP address of the networked machine it's running on, eg your sonicTransporter.

 

Since you appear to be having an issue with the Squeezelite player in your ultraRendu, LMS's built-in controller would presumably have no player selected/available in the player drop down box (circled):

LMS controller - no player.png

 

LMS's controller might not look as good as some third party Squeezebox controller apps, such as iPeng, but it is still quite useable.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, birdland45 said:

I think I just did not set something up properly on the ultraRendu or the ST or both.  The fact that I could see the music on my desktop PC served from the ST via LMS was promising.  I think the problem was at the setup on the ultraRendu end.  I should have tried to get iPeng 9 to connect to the ST to see if at least that worked.

 

Does one require a account to make this work?

 

If you can access LMS's controller page from your iPhone's web browser, then it's likely that it has been set correctly on the sonicTransporter. If you haven't worked it out already, iPeng 9 is just a more sophisticated Squeezebox controller app that you can use instead of the LMS provided one. So no need to consider iPeng just yet. You certainly don't require a Squeezebox (mysqueezebox.com) account to get this all working, if that's what you mean by "account".

 

 

So, it looks like there could well be a problem with your ultraRendu's settings. Have you actually selected the Squeezelite player as the output mode on the ultraRendu, using the Audio App Switcher as indicated in the user manual and on Sonore's own help page on this forum linked to in @R1200CL  post?

Screen Shot 2016-11-18 at 5.33.35 PM.png

 

John

 

 

We will win because our NHS is the beating heart of this country. It is the best of this country. It is unconquerable. It is powered by love.

-- Boris Johnson

 

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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@Cebolla in my experience, once you get into that loop on the ultraRendu then it's futile to select Squeezelite, restart Squeezelite, or restart LMS. Even after DAC Diagnostics has found the DAC, and even when the "Active" label is displayed on the Squeezelite button, LMS can't see it. You just have to wait. And wait, and wait. Yesterday, after weeks of testing, I posted a report about this on the micro/ultraRendu support thread.

 

In the same situation on my microJukebox, everything just works immediately. The microJukebox is similar to the SonicTransporter, with the same UI and apps as the ultraRendu (though the SGC products run on top of the VortexBox platform, I presume). But the microJukebox is a very quiet atom-based headless PC, and although I was going to use it only as a remote server I'm now considering using it in place of my ultraRendu.

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Have you found similar problems running Squeezelite on a platform other the ultraRendu (eg on a normal desktop/laptop computer)? If not, then it is very much a Sonore problem with the ultraRendu's  (lack of) control of resetting its own Squeezelite application and they really ought to sort it out.

 

LMS is connected to by the Squeezebox player type devices, not the other way around. So the Squeezelite application should be by default be trying to automatically discover & connect to the LMS available on the same network on its startup. 

We will win because our NHS is the beating heart of this country. It is the best of this country. It is unconquerable. It is powered by love.

-- Boris Johnson

 

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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I have only run Squeezelite on the ultraRendu and the microJukebox, but I can say the experience has been like night and day. (I run LMS on the microJukebox and an old Mac Mini.) Only the ultraRendu has these problems, and as I mentioned above I posted about this on the Sonore micro/ultraRendu support thread yesterday.

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Does the Squeezelite output mode once defunct affect the use of any of the other output modes on the ultraRendu. For example, is the DLNA ouput mode selectable & still working when selected?

 

If so, then it may be worth seeing what the OP's issue is with getting MinimServer going on the sonicTransporter.

Or may be (bit more complicated, perhaps) still go with LMS, but also install the UPnPBridge LMS plugin on the sonicTransporter & configure the plugin to provide its Squeezelite emulator for the ultraRendu's UPnP/DLNA renderer.

We will win because our NHS is the beating heart of this country. It is the best of this country. It is unconquerable. It is powered by love.

-- Boris Johnson

 

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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I have not read the thread because I'm swamped working on something else:) I just want to chime in on the off chance this could help. SqueezeLite will attach itself to the first LMS or Roon server it finds on the network. The one it selects might not be the one you want so best to turn off all LMS or Roon servers and only turn on the one you want SqueezeLite to connect to. By off I mean it can't be running in the back ground. You might need to restart the unit as well. Also, if you want to see if SqueezeLIte is working you can install LMS on the unit. With LMS on the unit we force SqueezeLIte to connect to it. Same applies to LMS on sonicTransporter.    

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58 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

I have not read the thread because I'm swamped working on something else:) I just want to chime in on the off chance this could help. SqueezeLite will attach itself to the first LMS or Roon server it finds on the network. The one it selects might not be the one you want so best to turn off all LMS or Roon servers and only turn on the one you want SqueezeLite to connect to. By off I mean it can't be running in the back ground. You might need to restart the unit as well. Also, if you want to see if SqueezeLIte is working you can install LMS on the unit. With LMS on the unit we force SqueezeLIte to connect to it. Same applies to LMS on sonicTransporter.    

 

I had a long post entered yesterday and then something happened and I lost the entire thing. :(

 

Thanks to people's various posts and suggestions - sorry about the misuse of server, player and controller.

 

Here is a version of the lost post.

 

1. I powered everything (ST, ultraRendu, ultraDigital) off and back on and I could actually see the uRendu as player and the music from the ST on iPeng 9.  However, when I played the music, it showed as playing but is was not going to the DAC.

 

2. DAC diagnostics on ultraRendu showed the uDigital as connected.

 

3. My actual DAC W4S, showed DSD256 when playing a DSD256 file but did not change when I played a DSD64 file and my tape decks meters did not show any signal.

 

4. So rebooted the ultraRendu.  It would not come up so it was visible on mysonicorbiter.  So I powered off everything again.  DAC Diagnostics shows the DAC (ultraDigital) but iPeng 9 does not find the player or it shows up for a few seconds and then disappears and never comes back unless I try to restart Squeezelite in which case it does the same thing.  Squeezelite shows up in an UNKNOWN state after being active for a very short time.

 

I have not tried anything else and everything is powered down.  I am in the process of formatting a drive in exFAT format and copying all of the music to that drive just to be on the safe side.  I suspect this won't affect Squeezelite but Andrew of SMG did say not to use NTFS.

 

I'm not sure what is going on with Squeezelite on the ultraRendu.  Keep in mind that the ultraRendu is connected to the ultraDigital via USB and the ultraDigital is connected to my W4S DAC via I2S.  One SBooster PSU powers both the ultraRendu and ultraDigital.

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4 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

Hi Walter,

 

First thing I should point out that in your setup, the network audio file player is actually in the ultraRendu, so either Squeezelite or the UPnP/DLNA renderer (depending on which you have selected to output to the attached DAC). Any related app on the iPhone would be a 'controller' rather than a 'player'.

 

The sonicTransporter's Squeezebox server, specifically the Logitech Media Server application, has a built-in web server to allow you to control any Squeezebox type player (eg the ultraRendu's Squeezelite) connected to it, from a web browser running on any machine on the network - so even using your iPhone's web browser. The same LMS web server also provides some pages for configuring LMS's advanced settings.The default web address for LMS's built-in controller web page is:

aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd:9000

where aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd is the IP address of the networked machine it's running on, eg your sonicTransporter.

 

Since you appear to be having an issue with the Squeezelite player in your ultraRendu, LMS's built-in controller would presumably have no player selected/available in the player drop down box (circled):

LMS controller - no player.png

 

LMS's controller might not look as good as some third party Squeezebox controller apps, such as iPeng, but it is still quite useable.

 

 

 

 

If you can access LMS's controller page from your iPhone's web browser, then it's likely that it has been set correctly on the sonicTransporter. If you haven't worked it out already, iPeng 9 is just a more sophisticated Squeezebox controller app that you can use instead of the LMS provided one. So no need to consider iPeng just yet. You certainly don't require a Squeezebox (mysqueezebox.com) account to get this all working, if that's what you mean by "account".

 

 

So, it looks like there could well be a problem with your ultraRendu's settings. Have you actually selected the Squeezelite player as the output mode on the ultraRendu, using the Audio App Switcher as indicated in the user manual and on Sonore's own help page on this forum linked to in @R1200CL  post?

Screen Shot 2016-11-18 at 5.33.35 PM.png

 

John

 

 

Hi John:

 

Very informative post.  I did figure out some of this through trial and error.  Yes, my terminology is incorrect.  Thanks for correcting it.

 

However,  there are some issues with the built-in controller on the ST.  When the ultraRendu was actually found as a player, I could start playing a file but I could never actually pause it or stop it or choose another file to play.  Maybe, I just don't know how to use it properly.

 

Yes, Squeezelite is selected but as per my other post, this is a very tenuous state. 

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Hi John:

 

You said this in your post:

 

" First thing I should point out that in your setup, the network audio file player is actually in the ultraRendu, so either Squeezelite or the UPnP/DLNA renderer (depending on which you have selected to output to the attached DAC). Any related app on the iPhone would be a 'controller' rather than a 'player'. "

 

Does this mean I can configure DLNA instead of Squeezelite on the ultraRendu and still have Squeezebox Server running on the ST?  If so, which app is that?  I assume it is not the MDP/DLNA app.

 

Thanks,

Walter

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