Better Roon Endpoints?

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, Monge said:

and I cannot use another Apple device for a remote controller as far as I know.

 

If you use Roon, you can ?

 

(And probably no need for ISO regen, but it doesn’t hurt to try). 

 

Old iphone 5S, often broken glass etc is very cheap. Use that as endpoint. Any thing that look like a PC will serve you well as a Roon server for a start. 

 

Later you can start having fun with all sorts of upgrades.

[davide256]

19 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

Roon does not support UPNP/DLNA.

Something doesn't ring true there. Part of my Roon core testing was to run Roon core on PC  for library against locally USB3 attached disks and then against my Synology NAS with same disks USB3 attached... worked fine for indexing and remote control except for greater latency with the NAS. There was no Roon software on the NAS, it was running its generic media server software.

[asdf1000]

Any DirectStream DAC and Roon owners here, that have tried an iPhone/iPad as a Roon endpoint?

 

Wondering if you can help me with something - very specific to the DirectStream DAC and very specific with an iOS Roon endpoint.

[diecaster]

12 hours ago, davide256 said:

Something doesn't ring true there. Part of my Roon core testing was to run Roon core on PC  for library against locally USB3 attached disks and then against my Synology NAS with same disks USB3 attached... worked fine for indexing and remote control except for greater latency with the NAS. There was no Roon software on the NAS, it was running its generic media server software.

 

Unless you were going use it as an endpoint, why would there need to be Roon software on the NAS? The NAS is accessible on the network to the PC and Roon. The PC acted as the core and endpoint. 

 

The folks at Roon are quite emphatic about not supporting UPNP/DNLA now nor in the future. Please feel free to check out their forum if don’t believe what I am telling you. 

[Monge]

22 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

If you use Roon, you can ?

 

(And probably no need for ISO regen, but it doesn’t hurt to try). 

 

Old iphone 5S, often broken glass etc is very cheap. Use that as endpoint. Any thing that look like a PC will serve you well as a Roon server for a start. 

 

Later you can start having fun with all sorts of upgrades.

Thanks 

I mainly use Tidal HI-FI as source, so unleess Roon gives me better SQ while streaming Tidal Hi-Fi I won’t use it.

I don’t have that much HI-RES content.

I have 2 Laptops and a room full of different PC hardware from the time I went nuts with computers and hardware.

Now I prefer to keep PC out of my musicchain.

I am considering an Auralic Airies or Altair as my next investment, but haven’t decided yet.

If I can get rid of a little harchness In the upper register, I will be perfectly happy with IPAD air and the camera adapter for now 

 

[davide256]

13 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

Unless you were going use it as an endpoint, why would there need to be Roon software on the NAS? The NAS is accessible on the network to the PC and Roon. The PC acted as the core and endpoint. 

 

The folks at Roon are quite emphatic about not supporting UPNP/DNLA now nor in the future. Please feel free to check out their forum if don’t believe what I am telling you. 

Well I find it important that switching to Roon basically blew away my previous solution architecture. Before Roon with a UPNP solution, best sound was achieved running Minimserver on NAS and using Lumin/Kinsky/Kazoo control points. Now best sound is achieved with local attached drives to PC running Roon core, sent to Roon endpoint, controlled through Roon GUI. My NAS  became a distant second in SQ and is now re-purposed solely as a video server

[diecaster]

I am quite happy with Roon as well.

[buzzlulu]

53 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Well I find it important that switching to Roon basically blew away my previous solution architecture. Before Roon with a UPNP solution, best sound was achieved running Minimserver on NAS and using Lumin/Kinsky/Kazoo control points. Now best sound is achieved with local attached drives to PC running Roon core, sent to Roon endpoint, controlled through Roon GUI. My NAS  became a distant second in SQ and is now re-purposed solely as a video server

 

What are you running for a ROON endpoint?

[LarryMagoo]

I use a MAC Mini/with SSD for my RoonServer controlled by my iPad.  I find that Roon blows all other music players away for all it offers and the great Roon community to learn from!  The way they can incorporate HAF filters for Room Correction is amazing!

 

It's cool that they just made all iOS devices endpoints.  Makes backyard listening great looking forward to using a HomePod to do the same....

[davide256]

18 minutes ago, buzzlulu said:

 

What are you running for a ROON endpoint?

Still an iPhone6... it beat the microRendu I owned for Roon SQ. Still hoping this thread  will flush out other competitive options as I don't want my iPhone to be the long term solution.

[buzzlulu]

28 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Still an iPhone6... it beat the microRendu I owned for Roon SQ. Still hoping this thread  will flush out other competitive options as I don't want my iPhone to be the long term solution.

 

Well when I get home I am going to have to test again.  As I stated a few pages ago when I entered this thread I read with excitement about using an i device as an endpoint however in my setup I found an old Sonicorbiter SE (which I am using with my Linn DS) was superior to an iPadPro and an iPhone X.  On each I was not using the current Apple USB CameraKit but rather the previous generation one.

 

I find your comments about the iPhone 6 beating out a MicroRendu interesting as I have been debating, based on my brief demo of using the SonicOrbiter SE,  about whether or not to jump up to a Micro or Ultra Rendu - based on my perception of the superiority of the SE over the i devices.  Your comments cause me to take pause and do the demo again when I get back home.

 

Use case scenario for me is not in my two channel system but rather in a stand alone headphone system - Utopia and Sony Z1R cans and Sony TA-ZH1ES Dac/Amp (both Sony pieces part of the new Flagship Signature series)

[asdf1000]

10 minutes ago, buzzlulu said:

As I stated a few pages ago when I entered this thread I read with excitement about using an i device as an endpoint however in my setup I found an old Sonicorbiter SE (which I am using with my Linn DS) was superior to an iPadPro and an iPhone X.  

 

Superior in what way/s? I know this stuff can be hard to describe sometimes but others' impressions/observations are always interesting to me.

 

 

 

[buzzlulu]

More clarity and AIR around things - not a flat "2D" presentation but rather a "3D" presentation.  Similar to what I get when I compare digital to my vinyl LP12.  Also a bit more dynamic range.

 

Not sure if you are familiar with the new Sony Signature series headphone lineup - Z1R headphones, Walkman WM1Z, TA-ZH1ES DAC/Amp.  Right now the WM1Z Walkman is considered the premier portable digital player on the market nudging out the TOTL Astell & Kern.  Anyone who has the set uses the Walkman as a digital source to the DAC/Amp as it is TOTL.  Well - I found the SonicOrbiter SE to beat that combination as well (I own both so no horse in the race).

 

Many write off the supplied Sony USB cable as poor however for now I'm stuck with it as it has a proprietary connector.  The only way around it is to buy a dock for the Walkman (which would allow after market USB cables)

BUT

in all my tests I use a generic USB cable for consistency - so theoretically all devices are equally hobbled by the cable.

 

 

[davide256]

17 minutes ago, buzzlulu said:

More clarity and AIR around things - not a flat "2D" presentation but rather a "3D" presentation.  Similar to what I get when I compare digital to my vinyl LP12.  Also a bit more dynamic range.

 

Not sure if you are familiar with the new Sony Signature series headphone lineup - Z1R headphones, Walkman WM1Z, TA-ZH1ES DAC/Amp.  Right now the WM1Z Walkman is considered the premier portable digital player on the market nudging out the TOTL Astell & Kern.  Anyone who has the set uses the Walkman as a digital source to the DAC/Amp as it is TOTL.  Well - I found the SonicOrbiter SE to beat that combination as well (I own both so no horse in the race).

 

Many write off the supplied Sony USB cable as poor however for now I'm stuck with it as it has a proprietary connector.  The only way around it is to buy a dock for the Walkman (which would allow after market USB cables)

BUT

in all my tests I use a generic USB cable for consistency - so theoretically all devices are equally hobbled by the cable.

 

 

mmm... I'm looking at Sony's site and the important phrase "asynch USB" is missing from the device description, they just talk to plain vanilla USB. What are they using for asynch USB chip set in this device to insure good clock timing?

[asdf1000]

47 minutes ago, buzzlulu said:

More clarity and AIR around things - not a flat "2D" presentation but rather a "3D" presentation.  Similar to what I get when I compare digital to my vinyl LP12.  Also a bit more dynamic range.

 

I linked to some Rob Watt's posts earlier about RFI and how he says that more detail can sometimes actually just be more RF getting into the DAC and causing distortion/s. He says lower 'leakage current's results in lower RF getting into the DAC and this resulting (initially) darker, warmer and even compressed sound can be off putting at first - but that it's actually a sign of lower distortion and may take some getting used to.

 

A mobile USB source means zero 'leakage currents' getting into the DAC's USB input vs mains connected sonicOrbiter SE, which could allow leakage currents through.

 

Nne of the above matters too much, it all comes down to our own ears of course. I just find it interesting reading and experimenting.

 

I'm still experimenting myself so not making any bold statements or claims (I'm not even qualified to make any claims) but Rob's posts have been really interesting reading as I play around with a battery based USB source, vs my Rendu.

 

More experimenting for me to do.

 

That Sony DAP looks great - just reading about it now. If only it had 4TB++ of storage, I'd buy one right now. A couple of years from now I expect 4TB or more of storage to be a non issue, even in small DAPs.

 

[LarryMagoo]

That Sony DAP looks great - just reading about it now. If only it had 4TB++ of storage, I'd buy one right now. A couple of years from now I expect 4TB or more of storage to be a non issue, even in small DAPs.

 

How in the hell do you listen to 4TB worth of Music???   I only have a .5 TB and there's always Music I stumble across that I have not heard in years and I listen almost every day!  Holy smokes that's a ton of tunes!!!

[asdf1000]

12 hours ago, LarryMagoo said:

How in the hell do you listen to 4TB worth of Music???  

 

Ha that's easy - play a song in my library in Roon and let radio mode go through the entire collection :-)

 

You'd be surprised how quickly 4TB disappears with lossless files - CD rips and Hi-Res purchases.

 

It's a 4TB drive, I think I've used 3TB. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if I'm at the lower end of the scale here on this forum...

 

[Miska]

12 TB drive costs around 500€ here (including 24% VAT). Add eight of those to a NAS box and you have quite a bit of space, 96 TB.

 

My video recordings in 4k and 1080p60 resolution are much bigger space hogs. Or my photo shooting, during my one week long winter vacation I shot almost 64 GB worth of pictures (RAW + JPEG). I take over 100 GB worth of pictures every summer.

 

[davide256]

Received the ISO Regen yesterday,  and have racked up a few hours using it with  iPhone. The effects are more noticeable for some reason with 16 bit music vs 24 bit.  Instrument details are  more clearly focused, lower volume background themes/instrument counterpoint have sharp relief. So a keeper.

[hasticus]

Tried iPhone and iPad as an endpoint today. Not bad, but far not good as my DIY  PC. Sound with apple devices is far more "digital". PC is highly modified so not surprised. Apple devices may be good second sources to use in another rooms.

[asdf1000]

5 hours ago, hasticus said:

Sound with apple devices is far more "digital"

 

Is that with the iOS device charging from the wall, or running off internal batteries?

[hasticus]

- Running from battery of course. As I wrote above, my audio PC is highly opitimized - it has pico psu powered from linear 12 v PS, sotm USB card powered from linear PSU, Snakeoil OS on CF card, powered from linear ps, sotm 4x clock ( for USB card, and 3 clock lines to motherboard) with external 10MHZ gps disciplined clock. ethernet switch powered from battery with modified clock.

It sound close to CD, or even better. And I compare files, CD and LP.

Another interesting finding - with good short USB cable I don't need iso regen. And Microrendu powered from LPS-1 indeed is close to i-devices on sound quality to me.

 

 

[davide256]

deleted

[davide256]

5 hours ago, hasticus said:

- Running from battery of course. As I wrote above, my audio PC is highly opitimized - it has pico psu powered from linear 12 v PS, sotm USB card powered from linear PSU, Snakeoil OS on CF card, powered from linear ps, sotm 4x clock ( for USB card, and 3 clock lines to motherboard) with external 10MHZ gps disciplined clock. ethernet switch powered from battery with modified clock.

It sound close to CD, or even better. And I compare files, CD and LP.

Another interesting finding - with good short USB cable I don't need iso regen. And Microrendu powered from LPS-1 indeed is close to i-devices on sound quality to me.

 

 

Help me to understand. What better Roon endpoint device are you advocating? Or is your input tangential, Roon vs DIY PC?

[davide256]

6 hours ago, hasticus said:

- Running from battery of course. As I wrote above, my audio PC is highly opitimized - it has pico psu powered from linear 12 v PS, sotm USB card powered from linear PSU, Snakeoil OS on CF card, powered from linear ps, sotm 4x clock ( for USB card, and 3 clock lines to motherboard) with external 10MHZ gps disciplined clock. ethernet switch powered from battery with modified clock.

It sound close to CD, or even better. And I compare files, CD and LP.

Another interesting finding - with good short USB cable I don't need iso regen. And Microrendu powered from LPS-1 indeed is close to i-devices on sound quality to me.

 

 

hmm. On reconsideration, now that I have a separate Regen again, I will try Roon out directly from core server. Direct PC USB out was always inferior for SQ with or without Regen compared to DLNA/UPNP fed separate renderer. But Roon core to Roon endpoint has already trounced my prior DLNA/UPNP setup, I'll give direct connect a whirl as nothing to lose if it sounds better.