limniscate Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 My initial impression of the SE right out of the box was that it's no worse than the sMS-200 Ultra, dX-USB Ultra, ISO REgen and modded switch. I don't have my Paul Hynes SR7 yet, so I was using an HD Plex to power the dX-USB Ultra and @austinpop's SR4 to power the sMS-200 Ultra. The ISO and switch were powered with LPS-1. I haven't switched back-and-forth between the SE and the SOtM stack for about 5-6 days. @austinpop and I tested my vanilla PC as core with the SE as a Roon endpoint and couldn't tell any difference between it and the SE as core. BigAlMc 1 Link to comment
matthias Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 9 hours ago, Dev said: Is Custom HiFi willing to make a similar PSU for the DIYers ? The mobo is easy to get but the configuration and s/w fine tuning is what we will need to scratch our head with. Dev, certainly, scroll down this site and find PSU for a lot of gear up to 5 ampere, for example the Innuos Zen Mini: http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/dc3-power-supply Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
matthias Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 It is a pity that neither Innuos nor CHC publish specs for the PS in the standard or SE. I can imagine that even in the SE the PS is inferior to a PH SR7. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
firedog Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, matthias said: It is a pity that neither Innuos nor CHC publish specs for the PS in the standard or SE. I can imagine that even in the SE the PS is inferior to a PH SR7. Matt That may be true, but I'd think that one of the attractive features on an item like the Innuos, is that it is one box. Lots of people have a strong preference for one box as opposed to 2 or multiple boxes. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
matthias Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 24 minutes ago, firedog said: That may be true, but I'd think that one of the attractive features on an item like the Innuos, is that it is one box. Lots of people have a strong preference for one box as opposed to 2 or multiple boxes. Yes, I would buy the standard Zenith and if not satisfied would bring it to CHC later on for modification. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
matthias Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 4.1.2018 at 9:17 PM, limniscate said: Roy is getting the DX3 soon but suspects it won't be as good as the SE. Interesting to read Roys comments about the SE here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-70 Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
PhilR Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 2:17 PM, ADCO said: My Zenith mII (standard) arrived just before xmas and is at this point as close to "burned in" as I would think it could be. I came out of a fairly optimized Pc with Sotm card with separate power supply , The HD plex power supply for the mother board etc etc feeding a Micro rendu....and this sounded very good. While all of this is purely subjective I have to tell you the Zenith is better in every way I can articulate ....I just cant get enough hours of music in now. And that is really what its all about, that and its the easiest dam thing ever to get up and running on Roon. Agreed on all points of this with my own MK II. This is making the best music I have heard in my listening situation, after coming from an Aurender N-100 and Sonore Signature Rendu. The ease of set-up can't be overstated, this thing just works out of the box with minimal fuss. Mine has been running as a Roon Core unit and handles my 15TB NAS library with no issues. I have contacted Innuos with many questions regarding the unit and their customer service has been amazing. These guys really care about their products and customers. From my interpretations of the reviews, the comparison of the standard MK II and the MK II SE seems to revolve around the phrase "A bit more..", as in the SE has a bit more detail, a bit more background blackness, a bit more instrument separation, etc. I'm good spending half as much to get 95% of ideal, especially because my room has a higher ambient noise level that probably wouldn't let me discern that small difference between the two Zenith models. Synology DS1515+ > PS Audio P10 > Innuos Zenith Mk II running Roon Core > IsoRegen/LPS-1 > Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 > Tekton Double Impact Speakers Link to comment
rickca Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 3 hours ago, PhilR said: I have contacted Innuos with many questions regarding the unit and their customer service has been amazing. It would be great if you could post your Q&A with Innuos. I'm sure many others will have the same questions. Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
ADCO Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 20 hours ago, PhilR said: Agreed on all points of this with my own MK II. This is making the best music I have heard in my listening situation, after coming from an Aurender N-100 and Sonore Signature Rendu. The ease of set-up can't be overstated, this thing just works out of the box with minimal fuss. Mine has been running as a Roon Core unit and handles my 15TB NAS library with no issues. I have contacted Innuos with many questions regarding the unit and their customer service has been amazing. These guys really care about their products and customers. From my interpretations of the reviews, the comparison of the standard MK II and the MK II SE seems to revolve around the phrase "A bit more..", as in the SE has a bit more detail, a bit more background blackness, a bit more instrument separation, etc. I'm good spending half as much to get 95% of ideal, especially because my room has a higher ambient noise level that probably wouldn't let me discern that small difference between the two Zenith models. The 95% rule here is exactly how I felt about this. While I'm in the good(lucky) position to have a purpose built room and feel that area of things is relatively optimized I just am always struggling with investing in that last 5%.... when I don't know what 100% really is... in other words, I went off of reviews in this purchase and I didn't see the risk in the standard Mk II.... I just couldn't bring myself to put out the extra money for the top tier. Anyone buying hifi for a while knows what I mean here. The thing here is the reviews were spot on with this product. I got exactly what the consensus said I would . I find this important because I actually dismissed the idea that there would be tangible sonic benefits and purchased the Zenith solely on the premise that I'm tired of chasing the dragon with my PC and all its mods and add ons etc.... turns out the unit sounds fantastic and as mentioned is just easy. Further, because of the nature of the one box configuration I have exactly zero thoughts about mods/changes/add ons.... for me that might just be worth the price of admission Now, I am acutely aware this might just be the flavour of the week but I have to say it's really a great product . It's a nice feeling when you take a flyer and it comes back as expected, or in this case somewhat better than expected davide256 1 Link to comment
Popular Post PhilR Posted January 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2018 18 hours ago, rickca said: It would be great if you could post your Q&A with Innuos. I'm sure many others will have the same questions. No problem. My first exchange was about using the Zenith as a Roon Endpoint with a Sonictransporter i7 so I could do DSD upsampling in Roon (the DAC in my Lyngdorf TDAI goes up to DSD128). Here was my response: " I hope you know that you can use the Zenith as Roon Core too... You don't really need the SonicTransporter for that matter. Whilst the Zenith does not have a powerful enough CPU to do DSD Upsampling, we did find we preferred the Zenith as a single unit upsampling to 24/384 PCM than the Zenith acting as Roon bridge only with a separate server (i5) doing DSD upsampling" I went with their advice and currently upsample to 352.8/384 PCM in Roon. I briefly tried upsampling to DSD64 in Roon with the Zenith and it seemed to handle it with no issues. Had I ended up using the Sonictransporter as a core, I probably would have slightly higher access speeds, but the slight delays in searching for music in my library (2-3 seconds usually) are no issue for me. It wasn't too many years ago when we actually had to get off our butts and walk across the room to change a CD.. Second question was about the background analysis speed setting while Roon was importing the library info from my NAS. Here was my response: " You can up the background analysis speed to 4 cores for the initial scan to speed things up (I wouldn't advise playing music during this time as it will have an effect on the audio performance). Once that is complete I would change it back to throttled as this is more than adequate for smaller imports." Next was a question about Spotify. Roon integrates automatically with Tidal, but I also have a Spotify account. Unfortunately you have to use the Zenith software to switch out of Roon mode and back into the Zenith playback software mode to use Spotify. It only takes a minute, but it is not a seamless process. Then next question was about DSD playback. One day Roon started to automatically downconvert all of my DSD files to 384PCM. The native DSD playback option had vanished from the menu too. I spent some time trying to figure it out, and even went as far as posting on the Roon support forum for help. I had a few suggestions there, but not even the Roon techs could figure out what was happening. I assumed it was an issue with the Zenith and contacted them for help.Nuno opened up a remote support session with me and quickly determined that I had set Roon to control my playback volume via the Roon app instead of the volume control of my Lyngdorf. Using volume control via Roon DSP disables the Roon native DSD processing and that is exactly what I had done. Interesting that Roon support could not figure out the DSP volume issue, even though I gave them a screenshot of that particular setting, but Innuos customer support figured it out right away. Fantastic customer service! My last question for them was about using optical isolation for the LAN input. I was told that they use an isolation transformer in the unit and didn't feel that additional isolation is necessary. Keep in mind that I am not the original owner of this unit. My first contact with Innuos was to let them know that I had purchased a Zenith MK II second hand and wanted to do whatever necessary to get it registered in my name. I have had several experiences with companies who do not want to help owners of second-hand gear, but I am incredibly impressed and grateful that Innuos is not one of them. mozes and rickca 1 1 Synology DS1515+ > PS Audio P10 > Innuos Zenith Mk II running Roon Core > IsoRegen/LPS-1 > Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 > Tekton Double Impact Speakers Link to comment
rickca Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 Thanks, @PhilR. Good to know Innuos has been responsive. Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
ADCO Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Just some further "updates" or "findings" on my standard Zenith... I spent some time fooling around with how to get the signal to my Calyx Dac from the Zenith to see if what I had around here as "add-ons" would yield any sonic benefits . my standard set is : Zenith > Audiobyte Hydra Z with ZPM power supply D-D converter (USB - BNC or AES ) > Calyx Femto I tried : Zenith > USB > Calyx Femto also tried : Zenith > IFI iusb3 with Hdplex lps > Calyx Femto My purely subjective results proved that the HydraZ/ZPM was an improvement over the other two options too the Femto dac from the Zenith. This was the same result I had with my hopped up PC feeding the Femto. Which tells me one of two things , that the Audiobyte converter combo and it's reclocking/clean power is working here or ( and I suspect this to be the real case) that the Femto just has an average USB input and simply sounds better on a BNC or AES input. My Dac only does 24/192 so at this point I don't need to bother with the extended ability of DXD or DSD from the USB not sure what the take away is here because as I stated using the Zenith MkII is an overall sonic improvement over my PC in every way I could articulate. As good as the Calyx Femto is it might be time for a newer dac Link to comment
firedog Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 It may be an “and” instead of an “or”. The other question would be how the Zenith sounds compared to other sources. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
ADCO Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Firedog.....Very good point I cant speak to any other source comparisons other than against my PC. And frankly their is no comparison. It has not been since I was hard core into turntables (15 years or more ago) that a source change has made such a clearly audible difference in every aspect of the fidelity. It's not better in one or two areas it's just musically and fundimentally more natural and ( presumably) more correct. Any way, it would be interesting to hear from the fellows that have directly compared it to the likes of an Aurender or Lumin or (?) Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 9:50 AM, limniscate said: @austinpop and I already have ours. Mine is further ahead in the burning-in process. Seriously? Austinpop bought one????? ...i thought he was so into the SOTM.... I would love to know why he moved from SOTM to the ZENITH??????? Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 11:43 AM, monteverdi said: I used a Macbook Pro (only for streaming recently), a CD transport (Pro-ject CD box RS) and the best sound from a SDtrans 384 (a semi DIY SD card player with voltage regulated battery PS). The sound quality is in any respect significant better than the CD transport and on par with the SDtrans (that is with not even excellent cables were as the SD trans is via very good SPDIF cables). Streaming is now possible direct to my Devialet via WiFi for Spotify (and hopefully soon for other services) and that sounds quite better than Spotify via Innous. So likely I will use the Innous mostly as a file player and not much for streaming. I thought spotify was mp3 only? why would someone spend $4K+ to listen to mp3? Not criticizing, just curious? Shouldn't a comparison be made using DSD? Link to comment
monteverdi Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 hours ago, beerandmusic said: I thought spotify was mp3 only? why would someone spend $4K+ to listen to mp3? Not criticizing, just curious? Shouldn't a comparison be made using DSD? Yes Spotify is only mp3 (hopefully changing soon) but a good way to discover new music (not so much good stuff on Tidal for my taste) and as I said my Devialet sounds better using Spotify connect directly than via Innuos. I bought a Zenith not to stream but to listen to downloads or rips. Link to comment
AmusedToD Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Is anyone using the Zenith strictly as a Roon core device connected via the “streamer” LAN output to a separate Roon endpoint (Rendu, SOtM, etc.)? Having in mind the observations made by @The Computer Audiophile that essentially all Roon core servers sound more or less the same if a proper Roon endpoint is used (as per Roon’s recommendation), I wonder if the Zenith mk2 would be a noticable and worthy improvement over a dedicated lightweight Roon server (say a SonicTransporter i5) with a proper Roon endpoint device like the dCS Network Bridge? Confused 1 Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I'm going to break a cardinal rule and post listening impressions on a unit that has less than one hour burn-in on it!! Initial impressions: Ouch!! The SE sounds good out of the box but there was a (not sure how to articulate this) smoothness or sense of control with the MKII. And that has been replaced by something harder to describe. It's a bit harsher and sounds like it's wavering or something. Obviously the unit is brand spanking new and it needs by all accounts at least a couple hundred hours before it's fair to judge it. But I was absolutely loving the SQ and the smoothness of the MKII and as soon as I got music playing on the SE I immediately heard a change in SQ that was not a step in the right direction. Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm MU1 > (Sablon 2020 AES) > Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Focal Sopra No2 speakers Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 PS Kudos to Innuos though on usability. From unboxing to playing the first music took less than 20 minutes. Really could not be easier. Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm MU1 > (Sablon 2020 AES) > Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Focal Sopra No2 speakers Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Forgive the crappy picture. My LG V30 sounds fantastic but the camera is pretty average. Top to bottom: MKII (unplugged currently) Directstream DAC MKII SE (on and playing) Will give the SE at least 100 hours and then set up the MKII at the same time to try and A/B the two. Guess I'm in a fairly unusual position having both in the house at the same time. Need to return the MKII to the dealer in a couple weeks tho. Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm MU1 > (Sablon 2020 AES) > Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Focal Sopra No2 speakers Link to comment
PhilR Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, BigAlMc said: Forgive the crappy picture. My LG V30 sounds fantastic but the camera is pretty average. Top to bottom: MKII (unplugged currently) Directstream DAC MKII SE (on and playing) Will give the SE at least 100 hours and then set up the MKII at the same time to try and A/B the two. Guess I'm in a fairly unusual position having both in the house at the same time. Need to return the MKII to the dealer in a couple weeks tho. That's fantastic, looking forward to your direct comparisons once the SE is broken in! Synology DS1515+ > PS Audio P10 > Innuos Zenith Mk II running Roon Core > IsoRegen/LPS-1 > Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 > Tekton Double Impact Speakers Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Interestingly, only 2-3 hours of playing in and it seems to be settling down a bit. Sounding pretty great! That or my ears have adjusted... Ok no more listening impressions until it's got 3 figures of hours on the clock. Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm MU1 > (Sablon 2020 AES) > Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Focal Sopra No2 speakers Link to comment
LTG2010 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, BigAlMc said: Interestingly, only 2-3 hours of playing in and it seems to be settling down a bit. Sounding pretty great! That or my ears have adjusted Must have been too hard to resist looking forward to the final verdict. Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Sorry breaking all the rules including my own. Am like 7 hours in and it sounds fecking terrific! There's no other way of describing it. I'll do an A-B as objectively as I can come the time. But this sounds amazing already despite the reported burn-in period. Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm MU1 > (Sablon 2020 AES) > Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Focal Sopra No2 speakers Link to comment
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