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Innuos Zenith SE MkII


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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 4:51 PM, austinpop said:

Oh I always think to myself, while browsing in Roon... I should remember to switch over to internal before actually listening, but then I always forget.

 

Yesterday I installed Roon, which I never tried before …

 

Now I understand what you wrote. I am not sure I am hearing a loss in sound quality compared to LMS (perhaps a slightly reduced dynamics and transparency (?)), but the user experience is a whole new world compared to a traditional music player!

 

I think I am going to stay with this set-up for the foreseeable future ? … sorry for my wallet as usual!

 

As for the SE sound quality, I still need to stop fiddling with other things (headphone cable upgrades I was evaluating just when the SE arrived), but honestly I was hoping for a dramatic improvement over my previous source, which I am afraid it is not going to be the case ?.

 

By doing some quick A/B between the SE and a Surface Pro 3 running off batteries, with windows Server 2016 (Core mode) + Audiophile Optimizer + Fidelizer Pro + JPLAY + Process Lasso and HQPlayer I am noticing quite subtle differences at this point, and not necessarily / always in favor of the SE. An ISO Regen + LPS-1 (grounded via iFi Groundhog)  is in the chain in both cases, and the A/B is done by playing local files (on an SD card for the Surface, and on the SSD of the SE).

 

Perhaps the source immunity that Rob Watts claims about the DAVE is at play here?

 

Several very experienced forum users have reported significantly upgraded SQ with the SE on top on DAVE-driven system, and I am hoping they are right instead of Rob Watts ?

 

I need more time to settle down with the SE playing for a while and then do some actual critical listening comparisons between the SE and the optimized laptop in my system. I will report back here of course what my ears are telling me!

 

ZENith MkII SE  > ISO REGEN (LPS1.2) > MScaler > OPTO DX > DAVE > Riviera AIC-10 >  AB-1266 Phi TC / Valkyria / LS3/5a

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Hi simorag, maybe you shouldn't expect such a huge difference because.....

 

1. Your laptop is already heavily optimised

2. A microRendu type device in between should bring up the performance of a lower source.

3. Different listeners with different systems really do react differently

 

Are you using any Roon DSP? Apart from maybe some PEQ, there is no reason to use any DSP as input to a DAVE, and you should avoid using any of Roon's volume adjustments. So make sure you've switched off Roon's auto volume levelling and volume threasholds.

 

Have you tried the Zenith SE direct USB to DAVE DAC? My main interest in a super server is if it can remove/reduce the spaghetti.

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Hello @TheAttorney!

 

I agree, probably my expectations are too high ?

 

To be honest, the main reason I decided to bought the SE (while waiting for a standalone M-Scaler from Chord, to pair with the DAVE ?) is that I was tired of fidgeting with the laptop tweaks, limited disk space, limited network options (win2016 server in core mode does not support wifi, and the Surface Pro 3 has no ethernet), etc.

 

I must say that, from the usability standpoint, I like very much the current setup where I now use the Surface as a Roon remote.

 

I could have got to this point in a number of ways, including through a much cheaper server, but I found a good deal on a 2nd hand SE and I could not resist ?

 

I installed Roon yesterday night and had not the time of going through any of its DSP options. As you say, I prefer not to alter the input to the DAVE in any way, except perhaps some PEQ to get rid of some sibilance to which I am especially sensitive (I'll try that in the next weekend).

 

By the way, I want to publicly thank Steven from Innuos, who helped me to set-up the system and gave me a prompt and kind support even I am a second owner of the ZENith. Great customer service, Kudos to Innuos.

 

Coming to the ISO REGEN, as you I am also annoyed by a spaghetti-like set-up and that was the deal breaker against the Sotm trifecta or similar solutions. When I got it, I had an Audio-Gd NOS 11 DAC, and the ISO REGEN + LPS-1 provided a clear improvement on soundstage focus and transparency, perhaps with a slightly brighter sound signature.

 

Now, with the ZENith and DAVE I realize that I should try to remove it and see how I like the result.

 

During the next weekend I hope I will have time to enjoy my new toy and get a better idea of how my new rig performs ?

ZENith MkII SE  > ISO REGEN (LPS1.2) > MScaler > OPTO DX > DAVE > Riviera AIC-10 >  AB-1266 Phi TC / Valkyria / LS3/5a

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10 minutes ago, simorag said:

Now, with the ZENith and DAVE I realize that I should try to remove it and see how I like the result.

Please post your impressions with the ISO REGEN out of the chain.  I do think it improves things with the Zenith SE, but it may be masking some differences between the SE and the Surface Pro 3.  I have several elements in my chain that are the same as yours (SE, ISO REGEN and Lush cable).

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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On Audiogon front page right now.

 

Not mine.....

 

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8jj16-innuos-zenith-se-mk-ii-media-servers

Vinyl Nirvana Thorens 125 MKII+EAT JO No5 w/ SoundSmith Boran Cantilever>Gold Note PH5+HDPlex 500 ATX+
HDPlex 300>Custom W10 Server>Roon Rock>Euphony Stylus v4+Endpoint v4 Atom/JCAT XE USB>ISO Regen>
Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 w/ RoomPerfect>GR Research NX-Studio + Rythmik F18 Servo Sub
"Get Off Your Knee, Burn The Mask And Please Wake Up....You Have Been Lied To About Everything...And I Mean Everything"
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Pretty great price too as I'd have expected the SE to hold its value longer given the 100 unit limited edition factor. 

 

Also, I noticed this:

 

Seller Information

romazicon 

 

is that Roy? If so then the buyer is picking up a unit that holds a small but special place in the SE history. I bought my SE largely due to the Roy (and Darko) reviews. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yesterday I tried the Disk Ripper function of the ZENith.

 

I had about 30 CDs left to rip from my classical music recordings, including some relatively rare editions (RCA Victor, Analogue Productions, Chesky classical from the 80's).

 

Wow, the process was very quick, easy and almost 100% successful in retrieving all metadata in full automatic mode (with the help of Roon engine as well).

 

Coming from a PC tweaking background, I am really impressed about how stable, robust and hassle free is the operation of the ZENith.

 

Everything works very smoothly and this lets me concentrate more on enjoying my music, rather on taking care of maintenance of my gear or music database!

ZENith MkII SE  > ISO REGEN (LPS1.2) > MScaler > OPTO DX > DAVE > Riviera AIC-10 >  AB-1266 Phi TC / Valkyria / LS3/5a

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  • 2 weeks later...

The dealer where I bought my SE is now advertising the Statement for £9800

 

The Zenith MIII is £3000 (compared to £2300 for the MKII 

 

I'm sticking with my SE as I'm very, very happy with it ? but just sharing as this is the first time I've seen an actual price for the Statement. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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13 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

The dealer where I bought my SE is now advertising the Statement for £9800

 

The Zenith MIII is £3000 (compared to £2300 for the MKII 

 

I'm sticking with my SE as I'm very, very happy with it ? but just sharing as this is the first time I've seen an actual price for the Statement. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

For that price premium, it better be really good....

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I thought the MKII was great value at £2300. I'm a little disappointed to see that it's not been reduced given the release of the MKIII.

 

Still paying full price for last years model doesn't sit quite right.

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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4 hours ago, austinpop said:

Just a quick heads up to fellow Zenith SE owners. If you're like me, where you're committed to Roon, but have noticed that the internal squeezelite player sounds better, Innuos may have found a solution, where we can have our cake and eat it too.

 

Nuno had me test an experimental build on my system, where the squeezelite (internal player) daemon has been modified to work as a Roon endpoint. So basically, in Roon, you select the Squeezelite (internal) player as the target endpoint!

 

Hey Rajiv - awesome news and great stuff from Nuno / Innuos for listening to what their customers were asking for.

 

I've been quite disciplined of late and am doing approximately 60% of my listening via the superior LMS player. And the other 40% via Roon (when I'm exploring or adding to my library). But the changing between them whilst quick and easy is still a pain..

 

Quick question to make sure I've got it. The above model involves the SE acting as both Roon Core and LMS endpoint at the same time right? Not just the SE LMS player acting as Roon endpoint for an external Roon Core.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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13 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Quick question to make sure I've got it. The above model involves the SE acting as both Roon Core and LMS endpoint at the same time right? Not just the SE LMS player acting as Roon endpoint for an external Roon Core.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Yes, that’s correct, although I suppose it would work for an external Core too.

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5 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, that’s correct, although I suppose it would work for an external Core too.

 

Great news. Thanks Rajiv!

 

Can't wait for them to roll that out.

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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On 6/19/2018 at 10:48 PM, BigAlMc said:

The dealer where I bought my SE is now advertising the Statement for £9800

Is that for the 1TB or 2TB model?  I’m only using local storage on my 2TB Zenith SE and feel I would need the 2TB on any upgrade (not that I’m feeling any need to upgrade).  I think many would consider 1TB a bit light on a very high-value statmemt product.

Zenith SE > USPCB (5v off) > tX-USBultra 9V (SR4) > Sablon Reserva Elite USB > M Scaler > WAVE Stream bnc > DAVE > Prion4/Lazuli Reference > Utopia/LCD-4/HE1000se

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11 minutes ago, str-1 said:

Is that for the 1TB or 2TB model?  I’m only using local storage on my 2TB Zenith SE and feel I would need the 2TB on any upgrade (not that I’m feeling any need to upgrade).  I think many would consider 1TB a bit light on a very high-value statmemt product.

 

It doesn't say on their website. Just says coming soon. My guess it's the 1TB in-line with the normal Innuos pricing but just a guess.

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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Concerning what was discussed a few pages ago on this topic concerning the incompatibility between the USB output of Innuos servers (I have an Innuos Zen Mini MkII since a month) and the Mutec MC-3+ USB, I have used what Innuos recommend, the IPurifier2, but I have also found a cheap solution that is working perfectly without degrading the sound (I think the sound is even better than the Ifi solution...).  So I just want to pass the information for those frustrated to have to buy an IFi IPurifier2 (over 100$...) to make the connection work, instead just use the really cheap Monoprice Aquamini USB Hub (3.26 $ !) plugged in the Innuos and then plug your USB Cable in it to the Mutec. Perfect solution at a cheap price. Probably other USB hub are working fine. Hope it helps!

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I have plans to get the new ZENith mk3 but have a few questions. 

 

Anybody here that uses the ethernet out to a streamer like Sotm SMS Ultra as Roon endpoint and how does it work? Will the streamer be visable to the network throug the ethernetport to do updates and so on or does the ZENith create a subnet? 

 

Would it perhaps be better to ditch the sms Ultra and use usb directly from ZENith via my tX-USBultra to my dac?

Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, 
Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Uptone etherREGEN -> dCS Network Bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree
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Personally I thought the Zenith MKII was comfortably better than my microrendu / SU-1 combo meant the endpoint thing wasn't needed.

 

I'd imagine the MKIII would beat the SMS Ultra but these things can be very system dependent. 

 

I'd be tempted to stick with the MKIII to TX-USBultra as that's a great combo on paper. I have my SE into the TX-USBultra. 

 

Not sure about the subnet question but the MKIII into the SMS-200ultra should be plug an ethernet cable in and you're good to go. Apologies if I'm missing something. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/2/2018 at 4:09 PM, austinpop said:

"Before starting, contact Nuno at Innuos support and have him do a remote session to unlock the local SSD as a selectable storage location in Roon. This is very important!"

 

My MKII Std is to be delivered to my dealer in CT tomorrow and in turn shipped out. In preparation for my Roon migration I asked about the unlocking of the SSD. He went back to Innuos and this was the response:

 

Innuos tells me that if you want to skip Autoimport, just move all files onto the "Unsorted" folder and Roon will sync without any issues, maintaining the original file structure. They say they only unlocked a drive in a very specific case and it is not something they will do on a regular basis.

 

Will this work and if yes what do I lose not following austinpop's advice?

 

Thank you

 

MAIN: Sonore Optical Module Deluxe/Farad Super 3 (7v) > Uptone EtherRegen/Farad Super 3(9v)/AfterDark Emperor Signature/Farad Super 3 (12v) > Innuos Zenith MKII SE (ER A) > ER (B) > Meitner MA-3 DAC > Ayre K-5xe MP Preamplifier > Ayre VX-5 Twenty Amplifier  > Vandersteen Quatro Woods

POWER: AQ Niagara 5000 > AQ (Hurricane)/Triode Wire Labs/Shunyata Python/Nordost Blue Heaven/Audience AU24 SE/Audio Sensibilities Sig Silver

CABLING: Silversmith Audio Fidelium Speaker/Sablon Pantela Reserva 2020 Lan/Ghent JSSG360 Cat 6/AQ Earth & Pegasus/Aurelis Deuland 75ohm

ISOLATION: Stillpoints/Symposium/IsoAcoustics/Herbie's/PS Audio Powerbase

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5 hours ago, FrankMA said:

 

My MKII Std is to be delivered to my dealer in CT tomorrow and in turn shipped out. In preparation for my Roon migration I asked about the unlocking of the SSD. He went back to Innuos and this was the response:

 

Innuos tells me that if you want to skip Autoimport, just move all files onto the "Unsorted" folder and Roon will sync without any issues, maintaining the original file structure. They say they only unlocked a drive in a very specific case and it is not something they will do on a regular basis.

 

Will this work and if yes what do I lose not following austinpop's advice?

 

Thank you

 

 

To use roon server on my zenith MK-II I just made my self a folder that I called it  SSD under the “music” folder on the zenith share. I copied all my music to this folder and roon will locate this folder and import the filesfrom it directly. I have absolutly no problem with this. You van also as Innous use the «unsorted» folder in the same manner, this folder is also under the “Music” folder. The roon server will use  both folders and all other folders under “Music” without problem. 

 

 

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On 6/29/2018 at 6:20 PM, BigAlMc said:

Personally I thought the Zenith MKII was comfortably better than my microrendu / SU-1 combo meant the endpoint thing wasn't needed.

 

I'd imagine the MKIII would beat the SMS Ultra but these things can be very system dependent. 

 

I'd be tempted to stick with the MKIII to TX-USBultra as that's a great combo on paper. I have my SE into the TX-USBultra. 

 

Not sure about the subnet question but the MKIII into the SMS-200ultra should be plug an ethernet cable in and you're good to go. Apologies if I'm missing something. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

I tried setting up both sms ultra and micro tendu in my system to use as roon endpoint to my zenit. To me non of them did any improvement compared to using the USB port directly to my dac. Yes, the signature of the sound was a bit different, but not what I can call better and certainly not worth the extra investment. I removed both and are now running directly to dac via usb and are very happy. It should be said that I have a very good dac, with a very good clocking function. If you are operating with a dac that is not top notch on these things, then yes I can see that having another end point as discussed can improve the sound... so it is as always a matter on what you have for equipment and if your dac is a week link you can certainly better the signal on a good endpoint :)

 

anyhow... that is my impressions and opinion.

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