Innuos Zenith SE MkII

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I’m now into the fourth week with my Zenith SE and I’m really enjoying it.  I’ve currently got it connected to my Chord DAVE via an  ISO Regen (LPS-1) and will be adding a Chord Blu 2 to the mix when that arrives in 4-6 weeks.  I will probably also try a tx-USBultra to compare to the IR (I’ve also ordered an SR4).

 

Up until now I have not been that interested in delving too deeply into the various setting options on the Zenith, content as I was to just play my imported music under control of iPeng.  But now that I have started looking I find myself intrigued by the low latency mode option, which supposedly gives better sound quality on compatible dacs.  Well, I’ve tried it and music is still playing, so I guess my dac is compatible but I can’t say I notice any clear difference in sound quality.  Can some kind soul with more technical knowledge than me explain why Innuos would expect this option to give better sound quality?  Cheers

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4 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Not really. I've played with that setting, and can't say it made any difference - but then I have tX-USBultra in the path.

 

Thanks.  And I have the ISO Regen (might change to tx-USBultra in the future).  So it seems no extra SQ jump to look forward to from that option.

 

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

Has anyone else migrated to 1.3.2? The internal player is not really working for me on 1.3.2.

 

 

 

Again, this is not critical for me, as Roon works fine as before, but just wondered if others, who use the internal player, have seen this behavior.

Glad I have not yet upgraded to 1.3.2 as that would be critical to my current usage.  I’ll hold back on the upgrade until Innuos can reassure.  

 

The only problem I had was on the first day when I tried to import music files from my NAS.  Innuos support couldn’t find a solution that worked for me so I just copied everything into the auto import folder.

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Some Tidal and DSD issues now addressed in firmware update 1.3.3.  Don’t know precisely what they are.  Just learned about it talking with Innuos.

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It’s out already.  I’ve just installed.

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2 hours ago, rickca said:

OK now it's a 'statement'.  It's clearly going to cost way more than the SE.  Exciting nonetheless.

My guess is between £12k-£15k.  

 

Many of us who bought the Zenith SE spent almost as much as we are ever likely to on a server.  So to be tempted, we would need to see something that can kick the SE into the long grass at well under £10k.  It’s not easy to imagine a server that is night and day better than the SE.

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14 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

I think 10k would make sense.

 

Matt

Hmm, maybe.  But it’s that word “statement”.  Two boxes (connecting cables), better power supply, specially designed board, more storage, and god knows what else still leads me to think it will be in tne range I suggested.

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11 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

I was just with the Innuos people at AXPONA for a demo of the SE vs the Statement.  I got to hear it with nobody else in the room.  No contest that the Statement wipes the floor with the SE.  As it should for double the price.   They didn’t give exact pricing yet but expect it to be US$14K or more.  

To be expected I suppose.  Having only got my SE in January I was hoping it would be the one to beat for a bit longer.  Can you remember what tne rest of the system was?  Did you pick up any clue about when it would be released, and whether it would be a limited edition?

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On 14/04/2018 at 8:04 PM, Solstice380 said:

 

I was just with the Innuos people at AXPONA for a demo of the SE vs the Statement.  I got to hear it with nobody else in the room.  No contest that the Statement wipes the floor with the SE.  As it should for double the price.   They didn’t give exact pricing yet but expect it to be US$14K or more.  

To be expected I suppose.  Having only got my SE in January I was hoping it would be the one to beat for a bit longer.  Can you remember what tne rest of the system was?  Did you pick up any clue about when it would be released, and whether it would be a limited edition?

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For those who didn’t know, some info on a recent iPeng update that now links its volume setting to that of the iPad - 

 

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I wasn’t really expecting there to be, but I asked the question and Innuos confirmed there will be no upgrade options for the Zenith SE following on from launch of the Zenith Statement.

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11 hours ago, jaspal kallar said:

 

You can update the USB Card to the one in the Statement. It's mentioned in this video. But I thinks that's all.

 

  

That is good news.  Thanks for that.  I shall get back to Innuos and ask for clarification on this.

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6 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

I'm not sure the news is that great. Looks like that USB card upgrade will be pricey and more boxes: According to the video it will have its own enclosure with a 2-rail power supply.

 

Much more elegant I think would be for Innuos to bring in a single-box SE replacement that has the OCXO USB card built in, and market it approximately mid way between the €3k Zenith Mk3 and the €11k Statement. This is such an obvious next step to fill a gaping hole in the model line up that I'm sure Innuos will be working on it.

Just thinking about this upgrade option a bit more, what would it be likely to do that  the SR-4 powered tX-USBultra I am currently using with my Zenith SE isn’t already doing?

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Functionally, I think they are similar. Architecturally, there are 2 differences:

1. Clocking design
   • the tX-U uses the sCLK-EX frequency synthesizer board to generate the required frequency (24 or 48MHz) for the USB controller. Further SQ comes from using a 10MHz reference clock (Ref10 or OCX10) to "discipline" the sCLK-EX board. This topology requires BNC connectors, cables, and a clock chain (reference clock > sCLK-EX). Thus, the ultra-low-phase noise OCXO clock (the Ref10/OCX10) is distant from the target circuit - i.e. the USB controller.
   • the hypothetical SE USB add-on would have an OCXO fixed frequency (I presume) oscillator chip within mm of the USB controller circuit. What it lacks in quality (phase noise specs) relative to a Ref 10, perhaps it makes up due to the adjacency. This is the $64k question!
2. PSU design
   • the SR-4 PSU is outboard, and even with a silver cable, must traverse one XLR connector, one barrel connector, and some length of cable, all of which add impedance. The advantage here is that Paul Hynes's PSUs are world class.
   • the SE USB unit would have a builtin PSU from Sean Jacobs. Its advantage would be its direct attachment - again, a few mm - to the circuit. This should lower the impedance. But it's not a Paul Hynes.

In both cases, there are pros and cons, and tradeoffs. We won't know which sounds better until the Innuos SE USB add-on is available. Meanwhile, as someone who has the tX-U, SR-4, and Ref-10, I don't feel deprived at all!

Thanks for those thoughts.  Only time will tell.  I would certainly like the opportunity to compare the upgrade option with what I’ve currently got.  One thing possibly in favour of the Innuos upgrade is that my tX-USBultra is not configured for master clock input.

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On 6/19/2018 at 10:48 PM, BigAlMc said:

The dealer where I bought my SE is now advertising the Statement for £9800

Is that for the 1TB or 2TB model?  I’m only using local storage on my 2TB Zenith SE and feel I would need the 2TB on any upgrade (not that I’m feeling any need to upgrade).  I think many would consider 1TB a bit light on a very high-value statmemt product.

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Not sure if the vbus circuitry is noisier than normal in the SE but I just got a significant boost in sound quality when turning off vbus on the USPCB I’m using temporarily between the SE and my tX-USBultra (with everything laid out on tne floor).  Noise levels have dropped and everything is much cleaner and punchier.  

 

I’m now getting very close to the sound quality from playing CDs on the Chord Blu2.  Unfortunately, the 2” USPCB is unlikely to be usable when everything is back in the equipment rack, but at least it is now clear to me that unpowered USB cables are the way to go upstream of the tX-U.  Sadly, I still need a powered cable downstream for handshake purposes.

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13 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

I will use a Pangea usb cable from my tX-USBultra to DAC and use both usb outputs one for signal and one for power to feed the DAC. 

 

Thanks for that.  Does anyone following this thread have experience with this kind of hybrid cable?

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I’m making slow progress with improvements to my system but no doubt am still behind a lot of you fellow Zenith SE owners.  If there is anyone reading this who has still to improve on the supplied power cable, do yourself a favour and upgrade that cable as soon as possible.  It is ridiculous the extent to which the SE scales with better power.  I’m currently trying it with a Shunyata Alpha HC cable that until now I had been using exclusively with my Chord DAVE.  It is for the moment the only really good power cable I have and while that is the case it is staying on the SE.

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Firmware 1.4.0 now available to install.  You can read about the new features at this link - http://www.innuos.com/en/go/release-1-4-0

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New firmware released - http://www.innuos.com/en/go/release-1-4-1

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14 hours ago, thyname said:

Do Innuos servers (Zen and ZENith) benefit from a good aftermarket AC power cord, or the stock power cord is fine?

 

What are you guys using?

I have tried various Shunyata and Jorma power cables with my Zenith SE, as well as Vertere, Audioquest Thunder and  Chord Sarum T cables.  All improved significantly over the supplied cable, but in different ways.  I am currently using a Jorma Trinity cable with it.

 

See if you can get a loan of a cable or two to see if they do anything for your Innuos in your system.

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Update 1.4.2 now available to install

 

http://www.innuos.com/en/go/release-1-4-2

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4 hours ago, baconbrain said:

Stopped by the Innous Booth during the High End in Munich yesterday and asked if the upgrade for the USB port was still on the roadmap for the SE and the Rep stated that “yes definitely ” both the USB and Ethernet Port upgrades were going to be released within the next 6 to 8 months...

Did the Rep give any indication of price?

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On 5/13/2019 at 3:42 PM, nvitorino said:

 

Hi,

 

Just returning from Munich and catching up on the world. Just a quick heads up with regards to the Ethernet Reclocker Switch we've spoken about to some at Munich. The Reclocker Switch will take a good deal longer than the USB Reclocker - we are designing the switch from scratch as simply changing the clock on an existing commercial switch leaves too much potential untapped. This is the same approach we have taken with the USB Reclocker to a great effect. As such, we are expecting the USB Reclocker to be ready around end of July. Ethernet we would recon more towards the end of the year.

 

Not everyone needs both a USB Reclocker and the Ethernet Switch. We have SE customers who basically don't do streaming, which will be the main advantage of having the reclocker, as well as customers who use the SE with another streamer and don't connect to a USB DAC. In those cases, they only need one of the boxes. For those who want both, the Statement is indeed a tidier solution but also one that requires a bigger upfront investment whereas the reclocker units can be purchased as you go.

 

Nuno

Hi Nuno.  It’s good to learn that the USB reclocker’s release is not too far off.  Would I be right in thinking that its weight/casework would argue against stacking on top of an SE?  The SE of course lacks the strength and shielding effect of one-centimetre thick aluminium.

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Firmware version 1.4.3 now available to download.

 

http://www.innuos.com/en/go/release-1-4-3

 

Essentially a bug fix release but new features includes - “Improved internal player engine resulting in better sound quality”

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On 8/11/2019 at 7:47 PM, baconbrain said:

 

Curious if there is any update regarding the USB Reclocker ...?