Circuit Breaker to Outlet AC Wiring and Ground

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

are we going to get pics of this operation?

 

BTW, I still say build a bumpout on the side of the house for the iso. trans.

 

Sure I'll take pics.  The electrician wants me to dismantle and move everything out of my theater room.  I'll share pics of the progress work.

 

If the transformer can support two circuits I'm going to put it in an existing box under the circuit breaker and sound proof insulate that.  If it can only support one circuit I'm going to put it in a closet in the back of the theater room and sound proof insulate that.  Depending on how noisy it is.

 

I just ordered a 1k VA Topaz.  It won't be here for a couple weeks so there will be two phases to this project.

[auricgoldfinger]

21 hours ago, Johnseye said:

I'm thinking about using this wire for the breaker to outlet run.  10awg twisted hot, neutral and ground.  I think I'll need about 100 ft.  

 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-10-AWG-2-Conductor-Twisted-Submersible-Pump-Cable-By-the-Foot/50111480

 

I'm also considering putting a 1000VA Topaz isolation transformer under the breaker box to go between the outlets and box.

 

 

Have you looked at this cable?  You'll have to scroll down the page to find the description.  Price is $2.99/foot before quantity discounts.

 

10-2 Cryogenically Treated Romex (10 AWG) is fantastic for dedicated lines and is UL approved for in-wall AC power use. Deep Cryogenic treatment. by American Cryogenics, using a proprietary process developed in conjunction with VH Audio.

 

https://www.vhaudio.com/wire.html

[gmgraves]

23 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

are we going to get pics of this operation?

 

BTW, I still say build a bumpout on the side of the house for the iso. trans.

 

Absolutely! You want clean mains? A really big Isolation transformer with built-in primary and secondary low-pass filtering is the only real solution. However, the Iso xformer needs to be only in the audio system circuit, not house-wide. That would be elementary purpose defeating. 

[Ralf11]

George, KingRex, others - do any of you have thoughts on whether the iso. trans. should be close to the audio gear?  or fo ft. away?

[Johnseye]

5 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

Absolutely! You want clean mains? A really big Isolation transformer with built-in primary and secondary low-pass filtering is the only real solution. However, the Iso xformer needs to be only in the audio system circuit, not house-wide. That would be elementary purpose defeating. 

 

So I think you've answered one of my open questions.  One isolation transformer per circuit.  I can't run two (audio) circuits through one transformer.

[look&listen]

3 hours ago, KingRex said:

 I would steer you to an OFC cord that is around $5 or so a foot.

 

Do you have a link, or product name ?  tia

[KingRex]

If he is coming Monday get the 10/2 NMB. Get enough to make 2 full runs/circuits.   Make sure he twist it and keeps the runs 4 to 6 inches apart.  Don't twist them together and don't pull them in the same hole. Try to keep the runs as close to the same length as possible. You might want to get some multi gang cut in boxes. Especially if you were looking to have three or more receptacles in the wall per circuit. Get the hard more durable feeling plastic box and buy the ones that are as deep as possible.  It will sound great.

 

FYI  it does take 4 to 5 weeks to really smooth out. It will have a lot of energy and might be slightly fatiguing it first. Give it some time to break in. Overall it should just end up being a very beneficial Improvement. Please send some pics of the work and let us know how it sounds.

 

[KingRex]

Of course I'm happy to fly out and do the work.  I love hearing other 2 channel audio systems.  If you live in a state where you can pull your own permit, its all above board and your insurance is in place. 

I can be reached at 206 949 5739 pnw time zone. 

[monteverdi]

KingRex what is your opinion on junction boxes (Steel or Plastic)?

[KingRex]

13 minutes ago, monteverdi said:

KingRex what is your opinion on junction boxes (Steel or Plastic)?

I don't really know.  I think about resonance control and density. The power distribution strip I built for myself is a 1/2 inch Corian enclosure with a half inch thick acrylic top. I filled it with 4 gauge Furutech wire.  The custom unit Joe makes with Kosmic is a 2 inch thick acrylic body and a honeycomb carbon fiber top.

 

If I was crawling under a house, I would not staple my wire to the bottom of the joist where they would be influenced by the vibration of the bass.  I would hang them.  I want a degree of anti resonance without getting the sorbothane flatness. 

 

So steel or plastic?   There are choices with plastic.  There is Home Depot blue plastic. There is supply house black and grey plastic.  Steel is pretty dense, and if you took fire tape and coated the body it would be more dense.  I guess you could coat the plastic too.   I have tried steel and heavy duty blue plastic. They both worked fine.  I did not have an ahh experience with either.  I did get an ahh with my distribution box and ofc cord. 

 

[Speedskater]

While SouthWire brand Romex® is excellent, Cryogenically  treating it is stupid!

If Romex® isn't printed on the cable and SouthWire isn't printed on the box, then it's not Romex, it's just ordinary NM-B (or C or UF).

If you need two circuits (and most systems don't)(and one's with a small 1000VA transformer sure don't) but for others doing big power:

Have the electrician run a feeder from the main breaker box to in/near the music room to a small breaker box and split the circuits there.

[Johnseye]

5 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

While SouthWire brand Romex® is excellent, Cryogenically  threading it is stupid!

If you need two circuits (and most systems don't)(and one's with a small 1000VA transformer sure don't) but for others doing big power:

Have the electrician run a feeder from the main breaker box to in/near the music room to a small breaker box and split the circuits there.

 

How would you determine how many circuits to use?

 

[Speedskater]

10 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

How would you determine how many circuits to use?

Well you could add up all the component's nameplate values, or you could measure it with a 'Kill-a-Watt' meter.

But for a 1000VA transformer, one 15 Amp circuit is the limit. Actually the transformer limit is 8 Amps, but 15 Amp circuits are as small as we go.

 

Now for a 5000VA transformer, I'd go with two 20 Amp circuits.

[KingRex]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

George, KingRex, others - do any of you have thoughts on whether the iso. trans. should be close to the audio gear?  or fo ft. away?

They hum, away in another room. Rember, they have about a 7 percent loss. A 2.4 kva transfer wastes 168 Watts an hour.  X 24 a day x 30 days x 12 cents an hour adds up. 

[KingRex]

2 hours ago, look&listen said:

 

Do you have a link, or product name ?  tia

Cullen Cable.  He sold me some bulk. But I don't know how much more he wants to sell that way. Or what price he's going to offer someone else. I'm a contractor.

[gmgraves]

3 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

So I think you've answered one of my open questions.  One isolation transformer per circuit.  I can't run two (audio) circuits through one transformer.

You can run your entire stereo system on one transformer, but leave everything else outside of the transformer circuit; that includes your TV!

[gmgraves]

9 minutes ago, KingRex said:

They hum, away in another room. Rember, they have about a 7 percent loss. A 2.4 kva transfer wastes 168 Watts an hour.  X 24 a day x 30 days x 12 cents an hour adds up. 

Mine sits on the floor, under my equipment rack. My amp is inches above it and I've never noticed any hum or noise of any kind. It might depend on how well the transformer is designed and made, but from my experience with a very expensive (when new) medical-grade isolation transformer, I'd say it's not really a concern. Of course, OTOH, if you hook one up and it does induce hum, all you have to do is move it!

[Speedskater]

12 minutes ago, KingRex said:

They hum, away in another room. Remember, they have about a 7 percent loss. A 2.4 kva transfer wastes 168 Watts an hour.  X 24 a day x 30 days x 12 cents an hour adds up. 

While a transformer while waste some power even when idling, in an audio environment it won't approach rated power more than 1% of the time, if that.

[Johnseye]

13 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Well you could add up all the component's nameplate values, or you could measure it with a 'Kill-a-Watt' meter.

But for a 1000VA transformer, one 15 Amp circuit is the limit. Actually the transformer limit is 8 Amps, but 15 Amp circuits are as small as we go.

 

Now for a 5000VA transformer, I'd go with two 20 Amp circuits.

 

2 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

You can run your entire stereo system on one transformer, but leave everything else outside of the transformer circuit; that includes your TV!

 

@Speedskater, gmgraves points out why I was putting in two separate circuits.  I also explained this in my first post.  My 2 channel equipment is different from the HT equipment (amps, prepro, projector, etc.).  The idea is to keep them on separate breakers, but I was hoping to take advantage of the transformer for both.  Your suggestion of a feeder could get that done.

[Speedskater]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

@Speedskater, gmgraves points out why I was putting in two separate circuits.  I also explained this in my first post.  My 2 channel equipment is different from the HT equipment (amps, prepro, projector, etc.).  The idea is to keep them on separate breakers, but I was hoping to take advantage of the transformer for both.  Your suggestion of a feeder could get that done.

Tell me again, what size is your transformer?

[Johnseye]

Just now, Speedskater said:

Tell me again, what size is your transformer?

 

It's a Topaz 91001-31.  1kVA

[Speedskater]

Just now, Johnseye said:

 

It's a Topaz 91001-31.  1kVA

That's a rather small transformer. It can only deal with half the load of a 15 Amp circuit.

 

Most modern transformers have an internal non-replaceable fuse that blows when the transformer overheats.

[Johnseye]

14 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

That's a rather small transformer. It can only deal with half the load of a 15 Amp circuit.

 

Most modern transformers have an internal non-replaceable fuse that blows when the transformer overheats.

 

My 2 channel equipment alone probably only draws about 300 VA.

[Speedskater]

Do you use both the 2 channel and home theater systems at the same time?

[Johnseye]

14 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Do you use both the 2 channel and home theater systems at the same time?

 

I will have the projector on while listening to music, but the amps are off in the HT system then.