Respectable Integrateds

[trappy]

I really would like to have an extended listen to those speakers. I heard them briefly and was very impressed. They’re incredibly elegant looking too.

[AudioDoctor]

6 hours ago, semente said:

 

The amplifier should be able to output flat over this or any other load (within reason).

 

Here's what happens when you measure the output of a Marantz integrated into the same load:

 

Marantz PM5003, Source Direct frequency response at 2.83V into: simulated loudspeaker load (gray), 8 ohms (left channel blue, right red), 4 ohms (left cyan, right magenta), 2 ohms (green). (0.25dB/vertical div.)
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/marantz-pm5003-integrated-amplifier-measurements

 

 

ok, it sucks.  I should request a refund.

 

"Overall, the PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium HP measures well for a design using push-pull pairs of EL34 tubes.—John Atkinson"

https://www.stereophile.com/content/primaluna-dialogue-premium-hp-integrated-amplifier

[Spacehound]

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

 

ok, it sucks.  I should request a refund.

 

"Overall, the PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium HP measures well for a design using push-pull pairs of EL34 tubes.—John Atkinson"

https://www.stereophile.com/content/primaluna-dialogue-premium-hp-integrated-amplifier

One should always remembey that there is only one 'perfection'. And we seek it.

 

So the more money we spend the more all our stuff should sound the same.

[One and a half]

53 minutes ago, Spacehound said:

One should always remembey that there is only one 'perfection'. And we seek it.

 

So the more money we spend the more all our stuff should sound the same.

I thought about what you said, and decided to put you on the ignore list.

[Spacehound]

50 minutes ago, One and a half said:

 

I thought about what you said, and decided to put you on the ignore list.

Yeah. I see from your long (so ridiculously long we have to link to it) list of unnecessary and overcomplicated  stuff, much of which is pure snake oil, that you are a  'gear enthusiast'.

 

So I wouldn't expect us to agree.

 Lenovo tower PC--->dCS Rossini---->Naim NAP250DR (no preamp)---->Tannoy Kensingtons

 

In the garage? All that stuff?  Your  car need a lot of fixing, does it?

Also do  you carry all that 'portable' stuff when you  are walking about? Or use a supermarket trolley?

[semente]

4 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

 

ok, it sucks.  I should request a refund.

 

"Overall, the PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium HP measures well for a design using push-pull pairs of EL34 tubes.—John Atkinson"

https://www.stereophile.com/content/primaluna-dialogue-premium-hp-integrated-amplifier

 

You'll have trouble finding a Sphile's measurements page where JA doesn't play down the blatantly obvious (from the measurements) shortcomings of a piece of equipment, often playing it down as character or saying that it will eventually please someone or that in spite of it was actually nice to listen to.

One of the worst offenders:

 

Finally, the Zu Soul Supreme's cumulative spectral-decay or waterfall plot (fig.7) looks awful, with a significant resonant mode at 2.8kHz—that accounts for Herb's presence-region rise—and hashy-looking delayed energy in the top audio octave. Yet, other than noticing a somewhat clanky quality with recordings of acoustic piano, I didn't find the Zu to sound as bad as this graph implies. In fact, I enjoyed the afternoon I spent listening to the speakers in Herb's system. As with Zu Audio's Essence speaker, reviewed by Art Dudley in October 2009, Sean Casey appears to have carefully balanced the Soul Supreme's performance to sound more neutral than its measured behavior would suggest, allowing the listener to appreciate its high sensitivity and evenly balanced midrange.—John Atkinson
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-audio-soul-supreme-loudspeaker-measurements

 

I never read the critic assessment but some reviewers do give an honest account of equipment shortcomings; you just have to work very hard at reading between the lines...

[beerandmusic]

I have heard the prima lunas at the last 2 shows i went to and i "really" liked them a LOT, not knowing about measurements, but listening sounded wonderful....might have helped it was paired with my current favorite speakers though (focal sopras)--grin.

[semente]

2 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

I have heard the prima lunas at the last 2 shows i went to and i "really" liked them a LOT, not knowing about measurements, but listening sounded wonderful....might have helped it was paired with my current favorite speakers though (focal sopras)--grin.

 

The ear should be the final arbitrer.

[beerandmusic]

1 minute ago, semente said:

 

The ear should be the final arbitrer.

 

i think i would like any amp paired with sopras (grin

[semente]

47 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

i think i would like any amp paired with sopras (grin

We'll, the Sopras will sound like Sopras if you power them with low output impedance. With the Prima Lunas they won't produce the balance intended by the manufacturer.

[mav52]

1 hour ago, semente said:

We'll, the Sopras will sound like Sopras if you power them with low output impedance. With the Prima Lunas they won't produce the balance intended by the manufacturer.

And you have heard this matchup

[mav52]

On 1/1/2018 at 8:01 PM, Ralf11 said:

The Gryphon Diablo sux - it's full of noise and has too much stuff crammed into the chassis space.

 

Yep and its called music

[Spacehound]

56 minutes ago, mav52 said:

 

Yep and its called music

Looks real pretty (to nerds)  but it costs more than I would pay for any  amplifier.

 

Amplifier technology has been  well understood for a long time. Most of Naim's excellent  power amplifiers use  circuitry straight from the free data sheet that came with RCA power transistors many years ago.

And the Devaliets are  a variation of the old Quad 405 'current dumping' amplifier.

[beerandmusic]

5 hours ago, semente said:

We'll, the Sopras will sound like Sopras if you power them with low output impedance. With the Prima Lunas they won't produce the balance intended by the manufacturer.

well maybe they don't sound like manufacturer intended, but it sounds really good!

[beerandmusic]

2 hours ago, Spacehound said:

Looks real pretty (to nerds)  but it costs more than I would pay for any  amplifier.

 

Amplifier technology has been  well understood for a long time. Most of Naim's excellent  power amplifiers use  circuitry straight from the free data sheet that came with RCA power transistors many years ago.

And the Devaliets are  a variation of the old Quad 405 'current dumping' amplifier.

I love the mcintosh sound, and many others love it as well....i think paying for a mcintosh amp is definitely more worthy than spending the crazy high prices on some dacs.

[semente]

14 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

well maybe they don't sound like manufacturer intended, but it sounds really good!

 

That depends on who's listening of course, but in this case it's your opinion that matters.

[semente]

4 hours ago, mav52 said:

And you have heard this matchup

 

Knowing how the Prima Luna performs I would choose not to.

One of my rules is to never use high impedance amplifiers to assess speaker performance.

[botrytis]

I have one of the odd Integrated Amps - a Bow Technologies Wazoo. It sounds great.

[AudioDoctor]

Everyone's a critic...

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

I love the mcintosh sound, and many others love it as well....i think paying for a mcintosh amp is definitely more worthy than spending the crazy high prices on some dacs.

 

 

What IS "mcintosh sound" ??

[davide256]

8 hours ago, semente said:

We'll, the Sopras will sound like Sopras if you power them with low output impedance. With the Prima Lunas they won't produce the balance intended by the manufacturer.

Sounds kind of like you have expectation bias favoring solid state  Or if not what affordable, say less than $3k tube amplifiers  meet with your spec approval?

[semente]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

Sounds kind of like you have expectation bias favoring solid state  Or if not what affordable, say less than $3k tube amplifiers  meet with your spec approval?

 

I prefer transistors over valves but if I had to buy a valve amplifier I would shortlist push-pull designs which measured as close as possible to higher-fidelity transistor amplifiers. Or maybe a hybrid.

That's the best answer I can give you.

 

I had one valve amplifier, an Audio Innovations integrated, and that was in the 90s.

[botrytis]

Only tubes I use currently are in my pre-amp, an Audio Research SP-16.

[beerandmusic]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

What IS "mcintosh sound" ??

'GOOOOOOOD"

[Ralf11]

so not excellent or even very good - Thx.