Respectable Integrateds

[marce]

I still have an Audiolab 8000A from 1994, can be used as either a integrated, a pre or a power amp (a simple mod on this version, Audiolab provided the details). Still used, add a Logitech SB, some speakers and a perfect spare/bedroom system, also has the advantage of a headphone amp.

[marce]

3 hours ago, esldude said:

One of the very best purchases I have ever made was a Tact unit that had digital and analog inputs.  Integrated power amp and full digital functions with room correction built in.  The DA conversion was actually done only at the power amp output stage.  It did everything and so well with such low distortion, transparency and functionality in one box it was a revelation.  Keeping everything digital as long as possible is THE way to good results.  

 

Lyngdorf and Tact were the same outfit at one time before having a difference of opinion.  Tact is no more.  Lyngdorf however is using mostly those same ideas.  If it fits your budget, you'll likely not find it easy to do better.  Don't listen to dynosaurs like Gutb.   Do everything digitally as far along as possible and do the conversion to analog as near the end as possible.  If you have analog sources, there are a legion of affordable very high performance AD converters in the pro audio world you can add for that functionality.  

I would like to present an alternate view to the above last two posts. As so eloquently said in the above  quoted post; keep everything digital to the last possible moment... With today's digital you can get all the processing you need on a single board, so you control noise, EMC, signal integrity, signal paths (impedance, guarding). Data in at one end analogue drive signals for speakers out of the other end. All controlled, no cables, minimum connections, minimised interaction with external EMC. Internal compartments for the electronics (at the prices of a lot of audio gear you could do where PCB and enclosure form an intimate assembly, with the case having sections that provide isolation, also heat sinking. Investment casting with a bit of machining is a better option than machining out of a solid block. I.e. design it to the same standard as life/mission critical aerospace/military kit.) 

The more boxes you have these days the more likely airborne interference is going to have an effect, especially if your wiring is extreme, with external supplies, clocks, unshielded cables...  Same with the digital signal, my insttinc from years of trying to get signals (all types) from a to b is minimise the distance and minimise the interfaces, keep it simple, it works best.

So what could be simpler than a one box solution (though keeping mains out and having an external power supply, would provide two solutions, one keep mains noise and power supply noise isolated, filtered, and provide a means to change the SMPS for a liner supply!)...

Of course the biggest problem with acceptance of a one box solution, is it does bugger up the after sales market somewhat, so it will always be inferior.

[marce]

47 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

this does look like an interesting unit....another review here:

http://blog.son-video.com/en/2017/07/review-micromega-m-one/

That gets my beloved approval... I like its modern clean look! 

[marce]

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

The problems with all-in-ones is as follows:

 

Noise. These things have several systems in one box, and each one needs different voltages. 5v, 3.3v, 12v, etc. The correct, high quality way to deal with this is to have a separate power supply and transformer for each system. To keep costs and size down, having 4-5 seperate power linear power supplies is a no-go. So the solution...crappy DC-DC conversion. Switching noise. Then there’s the noise from all the computing parts, noise from the amp circuit, vibrating toroid, heat, radio signals from the WiFi transmitter, etc and so on.

 

Space. What do all high quality linear amps have in common? Large transformers, large capacitor banks, and many output devices attached to large heatsinks. In an AiO, which has to be the size of a lifestyle product that goes on a shelf, doesn’t have the room for just the amp, let alone the pre circuits and digital systems. The solution? Compact and cut down the amp and pre circuits as much as possible. 

Not true,  plenty of low noise systems with multiple voltages out in the world, often very low noise.

How much room do you think digital takes today, not a lot...

Further:

Point of load supply's are the best way to go, again very common. Provide main system digital supply supply and a separate =/- analogue, the rest you do as point of load supplies. These are generally low noise LDO supplies, not everything has to be a SMPS nor is it advisable.

An example of size, a recent set of 4 boards I laid out were each 20x15mm in a stack, 4 processors, main supply from battery, 6 LDO supplies for the various sensors such as skin galvanometer, body temp, blood oxygen level, external temperature etc. etc. oh and just for fun a bluetooth transmitter (as you can guess so the patient has no dangling wires) just an example of what can be done with modern components. For digital small packaging is best, reduced parasitic's, better thermal management of the actual die etc.

If you can get a power amp in a box you can get the digital interface in quite easily, depending on the choice of final amplification gives you the final box size, but standard 430mm x 280mm approx boxes have plenty of room.

Do you read other peoples posts or do you just react to them, probably the latter, as I did state my preference was for an external main PSU

 

[marce]

22 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

So do smartphones and TVs.

 

Please think more carefully about your comebacks. 

Yes and look how they have developed and improved over the years whilst you are still discussing how to destroy the looms with Ned and Enoch...

Things move on, a lot of audiophillia has not, you are a prime example, you just quote from the audiophiles handbook of beliefs and dismiss everyone as inferior audiophiles because they do not have $50,000 systems...

[marce]

17 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

The real problems with all-in-ones are as follows:

 

1. a little extra design may be needed to reduce noise

2. speaker cables may be long vs. sticking mono-blocks close to the speakers

3. um...

 

ah...

 

oh yeh!  I got one more

 

3. if you upgrade you might have to upgrade the whole thing

 

 

The real problem with separates are as follows:

1. a lot of extra design to reduce noise due to small signal cable runs between the boxes.

2. Low level cables may be long due to someone placing their mono-blocks next to the speakers.

3. Um

Ah,

Back pain lugging all those boxes about.