Cultural Death of Hi-Fi

[PeterSt]

22 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

"Itsy Bitsy Bikini" and "Sugar".

 

What are you referring to now ? not Middle of the Road or something ?

(I still like that - haha)

 

PS: Asking for your age would be more convenient, but I won't.

[PeterSt]

OK, found it. You are older than me. 

LOL

[Hauser]

All is not lost.  There is still Andre Rieu.

 

Martin

[zackthedog]

2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

OK, found it. You are older than me. 

LOL

 

I assumed I was. :-)

[semente]

20 hours ago, PeterSt said:

...

 

 

I bet that the lady is thinking something in the lines of "I wonder how I can get the vacuum cleaner behing this mammoth".

 

How much is an Orelino by the way?

[rn701]

I am 63. I like Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga. I like them better on a nice stereo.

[PeterSt]

5 hours ago, semente said:

how I can get the vacuum cleaner behing this mammoth".

 

How much is an Orelino by the way?

 

130lbs or so for one. 

[NOMBEDES]

13 hours ago, gmgraves said:

 

This goes back to my OP in this thread. When the school systems cut out music appreciation programs as being expensively non-essential, they eliminated the chance to expose youngsters to hearing something great. Thus we have three or four generations of Americans who have never been exposed to classical music and many don't even know who Bach or Beethoven even were!. We have to blame the educational system for at least some of this state of affairs. Like I said, most kids who took music appreciation hated it, but about 10 percent became lifelong lovers of the genre. The rest actually learned something about the music, even if they didn't like it. 

Do you know that in the 1940's a song writer of popular music could include in the song a reference to Leoncavallo's opera Pagliacci, and the bobbysoxers actually knew what the reference meant?!! Try that today and see what happens! Huh, what? 

 

You have to wonder where all the money has gone.  We had art and music appreciation programs back in the dark ages when I went to school.   Why can't we afford it now?  What has changed?  If we could afford it in 1960,  why we can not afford music and other educational programs now?  

 

I pay more in property tax (with less Federal deduction - thanks Trump)  than I paid for the mortgage of my first home.   Not much to show for these taxes:  the school system sucks, the roads are worthy of Lagos,  and the only solution seems to be more taxes.

 

 

[tmkirst]

14 hours ago, gmgraves said:

 

This goes back to my OP in this thread. When the school systems cut out music appreciation programs as being expensively non-essential, they eliminated the chance to expose youngsters to hearing something great. Thus we have three or four generations of Americans who have never been exposed to classical music and many don't even know who Bach or Beethoven even were!. We have to blame the educational system for at least some of this state of affairs. Like I said, most kids who took music appreciation hated it, but about 10 percent became lifelong lovers of the genre. The rest actually learned something about the music, even if they didn't like it. 

Do you know that in the 1940's a song writer of popular music could include in the song a reference to Leoncavallo's opera Pagliacci, and the bobbysoxers actually knew what the reference meant?!! Try that today and see what happens! Huh, what? 

 

And parents of these children are unable to fill the void?

[semente]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

130lbs or so for one. 

 

Cheeky.

[semente]

47 minutes ago, NOMBEDES said:

 

You have to wonder where all the money has gone.  We had art and music appreciation programs back in the dark ages when I went to school.   Why can't we afford it now?  What has changed?  If we could afford it in 1960,  why we can not afford music and other educational programs now?  

 

 

 

The money's gone to accounts in Panamá, Caiman Islands, etc. Then Governments used taxpayer money to bailout banks. Then the mid and lower classes voted for populist causes and politicians only to find themselves even poorer as a result.

Shameless greed wins.

[rodrigaj]

15 hours ago, gmgraves said:

 

This goes back to my OP in this thread. When the school systems cut out music appreciation programs as being expensively non-essential, they eliminated the chance to expose youngsters to hearing something great. Thus we have three or four generations of Americans who have never been exposed to classical music and many don't even know who Bach or Beethoven even were!. We have to blame the educational system for at least some of this state of affairs. Like I said, most kids who took music appreciation hated it, but about 10 percent became lifelong lovers of the genre. The rest actually learned something about the music, even if they didn't like it. 

Do you know that in the 1940's a song writer of popular music could include in the song a reference to Leoncavallo's opera Pagliacci, and the bobbysoxers actually knew what the reference meant?!! Try that today and see what happens! Huh, what? 

I am the product of the inner city, South Bronx educational system of the 60's.

 

We had to take one year of music appreciation satisfied by either sitting in class, taking a musical instrument class or singing in choir. I couldn't sing and I did not want to play a musical instrument so I had to sit through music appreciation.

 

Like you said, I hated it.

 

Now I only listen to classical music and attend classical music concerts. The seed planted back in the 60's blossomed in the 80's.

 

I truly feel sorry for the kids these days.

[rodrigaj]

59 minutes ago, tmkirst said:

 

And parents of these children are unable to fill the void?

My father abandoned my mom when I was 7. She had to work in a factory to support me and my sister. She had an 8th grade education.

 

So no, many parents can't fill the void. 

[mav52]

An interesting article on what happened to music in US schools.

 

http://www.musicparentsguide.com/2015/08/28/the-truth-about-why-music-is-cut-from-schools-and-what-we-can-do-about-it/

[realhifi]

9 hours ago, semente said:

 

I bet that the lady is thinking something in the lines of "I wonder how I can get the vacuum cleaner behing this mammoth".

 

Whaaaat?  Was it just because she s a woman or was it her ethnicity that made you think that when you looked at that picture?  Holy smokes.  

[semente]

10 minutes ago, realhifi said:

Whaaaat?  Was it just because she s a woman or was it her ethnicity that made you think that when you looked at that picture?  Holy smokes.  

 

Man caves are not famous for being tidy.

[Ralf11]

3 hours ago, NOMBEDES said:

 

You have to wonder where all the money has gone.  We had art and music appreciation programs back in the dark ages when I went to school.   Why can't we afford it now?  What has changed?  If we could afford it in 1960,  why we can not afford music and other educational programs now?  

 

I pay more in property tax (with less Federal deduction - thanks Trump)  than I paid for the mortgage of my first home.   Not much to show for these taxes:  the school system sucks, the roads are worthy of Lagos,  and the only solution seems to be more taxes.

 

 

 

school systems have a LOT more non-teaching employees nowadays

 

 

[gmgraves]

15 hours ago, zackthedog said:

 

I confess I'm really puzzled by this doom and gloom.  The classical music scene is flourishing.  I have a friend who is a huge fan of classical piano and he can hardly keep up with the astounding new talents springing up right and left.  Every other week he emails me about a new performer he's heard.  "They're coming out of the woodwork!"  Ditto with string and wind performers.  And let's not even get started on vocalists.  Frankly, there's a range of performers and styles that never could have flourished in the age of the LP, or even the CD.  Digital download, YouTube and other on-demand services have opened a new world to classical music lovers.  And the recordings, especially from some of the indy labels, are spectacular.

 

I don't follow pop music or modern jazz much, but there seems to be a lot of new, and very well-recorded music available there as well.  J-Pop??  Really, what are you listening to?  

 

I think you're way off base.  For a lot of us music-lovers, this is a veritable golden age.  

 

No, the classical music scene is not really flourishing. Been to a symphony concert or an opera recently? How about one of those high-definition Metropolitan Opera remote performances at a local theater? There's nobody there but old people. There are no youngsters, few middle-aged people. Just people in their late 60's, their 70's, 80's and 90's. Classical music, when I was a kid, made up about 20% of record sales. When I got out of college, I read somewhere that it had fallen to about 10%. Now it's less than 1% of total musical sales. Such a precipitous fall is hardly the definition of "flourishing". "Dying on the vine", perhaps, but certainly not flourishing. If people aren't exposed to art, they can't appreciate it. And since the 1970's this society has done an excellent job of ensuring that each successive generation gets less and less exposure to great music. "It's irrelevant to modern life" I hear people say. Since when is art of any kind subject to a measurement of relevance? Fewer and fewer people are religious in every new generation, but does that make Michelangelo's Sistine chapel ceiling irrelevant? I can tell you, NOBODY is a bigger atheist than I am, but when I stood in the Sistine Chapel gazing up at that ceiling, I don't mind telling you that I was simply overcome with awe. Not with religious fervor, but with a profound appreciation and humility at being in the presence of such creative greatness. Great art transcends "relevance" and only a complete Philistine would put a dollar sign on the value of passing it down from one generation to the next. 

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, rodrigaj said:

I am the product of the inner city, South Bronx educational system of the 60's.

 

We had to take one year of music appreciation satisfied by either sitting in class, taking a musical instrument class or singing in choir. I couldn't sing and I did not want to play a musical instrument so I had to sit through music appreciation.

 

Like you said, I hated it.

 

Now I only listen to classical music and attend classical music concerts. The seed planted back in the 60's blossomed in the 80's.

 

I truly feel sorry for the kids these days.

 

That's a great story, inspirational even! I agree with you about today's kids (and several generations before them).

[rando]

40 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

No, the classical music scene is not really flourishing. Been to a symphony concert or an opera recently? How about one of those high-definition Metropolitan Opera remote performances at a local theater?

 

The amount of press given the arts in general has taken an abysmal turn.  Major news papers and established bastions of good taste simply letting some very skilled and highly regarded people out the pasture gate so they can give more column inches to celebrity culture has turned into an epidemic.  

 

Can you imagine performing publicly as a serious musician named Kim Kashkashian in today's environment?  I wouldn't blame anyone who ran for the exits after reading the first four letters.

 

 

[Norton]

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

 

No, the classical music scene is not really flourishing. Been to a symphony concert or an opera recently? How about one of those high-definition Metropolitan Opera remote performances at a local theater? There's nobody there but old people. 

Can we cut the gerontophobia?  Just because something doesn't attract young people  doesn't automatically mean it's not flourishing.

[gmgraves]

11 minutes ago, Norton said:

Can we cut the gerontophobia?  Just because something doesn't attract young people  doesn't automatically mean it's not flourishing.

 

Huh? Gerontophobia? You're joking, right? The point is that when those geriatric classical music aficionados pass from this mortal sphere, there is NO ONE to take their place! I might add that the pop music scene is almost as bad. When the baby-boomers pass, the music to which they listen will pass into oblivion too. The music will still exist, but there won't be anyone left to listen to it. How many people do you think still listen to Rudy Valee, Al Jolsen, or Russ Columbo any more? 

[GUTB]

20 minutes ago, Norton said:

Can we cut the gerontophobia?  Just because something doesn't attract young people  doesn't automatically mean it's not flourishing.

 

But then how do square that with stories like this:

http://slippedisc.com/2016/06/worst-ever-us-classical-sales-chart/

 

Where Neilson tracked less than 100 sales for any classical album release in the US, the lowest EVER since they started keeping track?

[Norton]

17 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

Huh? Gerontophobia? You're joking, right? The point is that when those geriatric classical music aficionados pass from this mortal sphere, there is NO ONE to take their place! I might add that the pop music scene is almost as bad. When the baby-boomers pass, the music to which they listen will pass into oblivion too. The music will still exist, but there won't be anyone left to listen to it. How many people do you think still listen to Rudy Valee, Al Jolsen, or Russ Columbo any more? 

OK so I was  being a little tongue in cheek, although I am fed up with youth relevance as seemingly  the only arbiter of success these days.

 

 I've only been going to classical concerts for the past 20 years or so, but I have no  sense that the average audience age has changed in that time.  I just think that people "grow in" to classical music at a certain age and replace the "departed"

[rodrigaj]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

 

But then how do square that with stories like this:

http://slippedisc.com/2016/06/worst-ever-us-classical-sales-chart/

 

Where Neilson tracked less than 100 sales for any classical album release in the US, the lowest EVER since they started keeping track?

And I asked...those sales numbers do include downloads, not just physical discs or LPs.