iPad Pro or Mac Airbook for server?

[asdf1000]

1 minute ago, MikeyFresh said:

That was one of the problems I had with Neutron, took forever to scan the library and ended up in some sort of endless loop, never actually completing.

 

I am not a Roon user, but a friend in San Diego is and he just recently mentioned how the most current Roon update makes any iOS device a Roon endpoint.

 

I used all these apps before (Neutron, 8Player, mConnect, BubbleUPnP, JRiver).

 

There was no looking in the rear view mirror after playing with a free 2 week Roon trial.... And now both iOS and Android devices are Roon endpoints which opens up heaps of possibilities.

 

The price is high but you really do get what you pay for, especially if you have more than one "endpoint" around the house.

 

[asdf1000]

21 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

the price is just too steep for me at this time, and unlike some others, I don't have any ongoing troubles with UPnP

 

Agreed. I never had issues with UPnP (forgot to add Audirvana to the list).

 

It's just that when I tried Roon, it kind of clicked that this is how music browsing and playback is supposed to be. Just in terms of ease of use. Their multizone playback solution is really slick too which is why I mentioned Roon starts to come into it's own with more than one endpoint around the house. Even if you're not using multiple zones at the same time (which it can do), you have all the DSP options for each zone at your fingertips and transferring music from one zone to another is also slick. 

 

But I know some die hard classical fans and they've long complained about Roon's struggles with classical (in terms of library management).

 

I do love Moode on my Pi3's. I have RoonBridge installed on them and I play with Audirvana playing to my Moode UPnP endpoints when I play around with Tidal MQA streaming, since A+ does the 1st unfold.

 

Lots of great options out there. I've tried nearly all the popular ones and all have pro's and con's. No perfect solution yet but plenty of great options.

 

[asdf1000]

20 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Thanks Em2016 for commenting on iOS and Android being endpoints for Roon.

 

How does it work, does Roon catalog all devices on the network and sends the music via a zone, or does an app be installed on the iPad to work? All I see are Roon remote control apps or apps for Airbnb....stoopid search tool. I can spell, Roon, not Room.

How does an IPad work with DSD?

This is sending the file, presumably by Roon protocol to the lightning port, then the DAC.

 

No worries at all.

 

Yep if you have a bunch of iOS and Android devices on your home network, they will need just the Roon Remote app installed on them.

 

This app will allow them to be "seen" by your Roon Server on the network and you are free to select any single zone or any multiple (for grouped) playback.

 

No drama with DSD out of the lightning port. Check out this dude doing DSD256 via DoP out of the iPad. Possibly DoP because of his DAC.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-4-feedback/35229/153

 

For anyone not familiar with Roon, it's not the iPad doing the up-sampling here - that'd be done by his Roon Server (PC/Mac/Linux). The iPad is just the "endpoint" or transport in this case.

 

Try the 2 week free trial! If you need an extra week or two, they are pretty cool with extending if you ask them.

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

5 minutes ago, One and a half said:

It's been three hours, Roon has detected all 50,000 files, but is 10% through the 'analyzing' process. The whole process will take well into Sunday to complete.

 

Nice. This background analysis doesn't really matter though. This background analysis is really just for some bonus features (automatic volume levelling, dynamic range figure calculation etc) and the analysis gets done super quick when you actually play an album, and it keeps chugging away in the background for the stuff you're not playing. Pay no attention to it. 

 

5 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Using HQPlayer as the engine, there's no click at the beginning of a DSD album's next track, hooray!

Next to install the remote on the iPad.

 

Gapless playback too of course. I think you're gonna love it ! :-)

 

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

On the iPad, when you set it up as a zone in Roon Remote, make sure you turn 'private zone' off for the iPad zone.

 

This will allow you to do multizone playback (grouped zone) later if you fancy.

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

20 minutes ago, One and a half said:

maybe there's a DoP setting somehwere.

 

Yep check that DoP is selected, see below:

 

 

20 minutes ago, One and a half said:

There's a lot of info missing listening to Shelby Lynne, 'Just a little lovin' ' that reverb is non existent,

 

Hmmm this isn't good at all. SQ is most important thing. Hopefully that's only because of the DSD64 > PCM conversion.

 

20 minutes ago, One and a half said:

At least Roon sending data to the iPad is a start.

It looks like PCM is played correctly, 96kHz, 48, 44.1, cool.

 

Yup, when Roon says playback is bitperfect (signal path = lossless) it really is. I made sure to verify by Ted Smith's bit-perfect test file for the DirectStream DAC, where the FPGA verifies if what's coming into the DAC is really bitperfect.

 

[asdf1000]

6 minutes ago, One and a half said:

I tried the previous versions of Roon, which were hard to stomach

 

Agreed :-)

 

6 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Version 1.4 is different and not annoying enough to scrap it

 

Yup agreed. I and others gave feedback to Roon about SQ all year, especially vs Audirvana.... It never really did it for me. Until v1.4.. I now can't hear any immediate and obvious difference between the 2.

 

6 minutes ago, One and a half said:

The metadata is another issue whether that came through OK. Although the critics comments still suck, there's only a sentence or two, just wish it would begone, have the Internet to look up such data if needed.

Ha! We have the same pet hates. Like I said initially, they all have pro's and con's and this goes in the con's category for Roon. After a while it's easy enough to ignore though and the pro's outweigh the con's vastly (I find).

 

Agree though, the v1.4 Roon experience is farrr better than any earlier experience, especially 12 months ago.

[asdf1000]

35 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

I'm curious now why my other friend, in Canada, said he couldn't seem to make an Android device a Roon endpoint after the 1.4 update.

 

Any successful testing there, or just iOS at this point?

 

Hmm I can test it myself tomorrow and report back.

 

I haven’t seen it reported anywhere on the Roon forum so far since the 1.4 update though. But I’ll test myself.

 

[asdf1000]

2 hours ago, One and a half said:

The fly in the ointment is Apple - Roon combo (?). The digital out on the lightning connector shows full volume on the control centre, however the final output is only a fraction. Compared to other inputs, as a guess, about 10-20db lower

 

Something is not right and I’m sure we can find the issue.

 

Can you post your Roon signal path? Like the one I showed earlier with the guy doing DSD256 out of the iPad.

 

This will tell us what is happening. You should also go into audio settings for the zone and select fixed volume and ‘set to max’ - not use DSP or Mixer volume.

 

My guess is volume levelling is turned on for a 10db drop.

 

We’ll find the fly :-) There should be no need for a workaround involving other inputs.

 

When playback is bit perfect, all volume on all software is identical (for a given input) in my previous testing. So the volume differences are caused by some form of DSP/volume adjustment

[asdf1000]

4 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Here's the panel for the iPad

 

 

An alternative was to use "Device Volume" but at 60-88% nothing much happens, but at least the volume matches the other line inputs.

 

Ok and the Roon signal path, during playback that is 10-20dB lower?

 

Click that little purple/blue 'light' or 'star'.

 

Should show something like the  below link I sent earlier. This tells you everything happening to the signal.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-4-feedback/35229/153

 

Send a screenshot through if you can.

 

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, One and a half said:

for the iPad, changed to Device Volume. Also switched off the DSP actions. It's working better now.

 

Great! Yes Roon's 'lossless' signal path means bit-perfect and sounds identical (in volume) to any/all other players I've used (as it should).

 

Sorry I mis-guided with changing to 'fixed volume'. Logic failed me there.

 

Volume level differences are always due to DSP or digital volume adjustment somewhere in the software, for a given input. Otherwise it's not truely bit perfect.

 

The DirectStream was good with their FPGA bit perfect test file for validating all of that (for myself).

 

So how's the sound !? Your SQ comments yesterday weren't positive. Hopefully SQ is better now with DoP working and volume being level matched.

 

[asdf1000]

8 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

I'm curious now why my other friend, in Canada, said he couldn't seem to make an Android device a Roon endpoint after the 1.4 update.

 

Any successful testing there, or just iOS at this point?

 

I tested with my old BlackBerry DTEK50 running the old Android 6.0.1 and it works. Even grouped playback with my iPhone, so both are in sync with each other. No issues for me.

 

Maybe something he needs to raise with Roon support to see what's happened.

 

 

[asdf1000]

6 minutes ago, davide256 said:

That CCK/USPCB connection from iDevice to Eitr is awkward, wondering if a better  option exists?

 

You can try a short USB cable instead of the USPCB if it's physically awkward.

 

But the CCK with USB out is the only digital way out of an iDevice.

 

Well bluetooth works too but then you need a bluetooth receiver and high res is no longer an option. The bluetooth option is good for kitchen, bedroom, garage, boombox endpoints around the house though.

[asdf1000]

49 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Strike 1. MPD-3 DAC PCM sample rate changes, don't change when played from the iPad.

 

I don't understand this one. It's bit perfect with PCM with the iPad. But it's not bit-perfect with PCM when used with what?

 

 

47 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Strike 2. MPD-3 can only play DSD through Roon on cable via DoP.

 

Ya when I look at the Playback Designs manual: 

 

"The Mac platform can support DSD file playback only via the DoP protocol at single and double rates"

 

So assume it's the same with iOS. This is a platform limitation, not Roon limitation.

 

48 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Strike 3. Playback Designs aren't tested by Roon.

 

This isn't so critical. It's working as it should with the iPad right, it seems? It's just that it sounds crap! At least you gave it a crack 

[asdf1000]

55 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

So assume it's the same with iOS. This is a platform limitation, not Roon limitation.

 

What I mean by this is: a Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (or 3) tablet running Windows and Roon Remote app, will play Native DSD.

 

[asdf1000]

7 hours ago, davide256 said:

The defect of the iPads is that they can't be remote controlled

 

Hi Davide, did you turn private zone off, for the iPad you are trying to remote control? 

 

[asdf1000]

16 minutes ago, One and a half said:

the computer's USB output was wired to the MPD-3 DAC, without the iPad just using Roon as a 'straight' player.

The driver is on the host PC, so Roon should pickup and play DSD native, like Jriver or HQPlayer. Problem was Roon could not play DSD native to the DAC, I had to use DoP. 

 

Assuming you mean Roon on host PC which is Windows, I agree. Should be no problem at all.

 

Did you change from DoP to Native in Roon, on your Windows PC?

 

I don't have the option for Native showing here for me because this is a TOSlink output but this is where you'd see it:

 

Can you post a screenshot for what you see.

 

By the way, just for others reading this : it doesn't matter if the host PC is Windows and the host supports Native DSD. If the endpoint feeding the DAC is Mac/iOS, native DSD won't work. If the endpoint is Linux, you are at the mercy of Native DSD being supported for your DAC (many are, some aren't).

 

[asdf1000]

20 minutes ago, One and a half said:

On that note, gave up and removed Roon, don't need the stress.

 

Whoops. Just saw this. Well at least you tried!

 

Hmmm as a trouble shooter I'd still love to find the root cause here and am sure it can be easily solved, just like getting DoP to work for you and getting volume levels playing normally were easily solved.

 

But I too hate stress so understand if you want to drop Roon like a sack of potatoes :-)

 

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Better get stuck into that before Cinderella's appointment becomes due tonight.

 

Ha! Sounds like you've got quite a few different endpoints (and DACs) around your place. Each post/problem seems to be with a different DAC!

 

So with numerous endpoints, it seems you and Roon were meant to be together. I hope you push on because it will be worth it.

[asdf1000]

14 minutes ago, davide256 said:

That was the missing piece, thank you!  Just learned my son has an iPad Pro, will be borrowing that  next as endpoint to see if the A10 processor plays to better advantage than the A8 in iPhone 6

 

Great stuff Davide !

 

Looking forward to your impressions on endpoint SQ but I know one thing's for certain - the big screen iPad Pro will make for a glorious Roon Remote for browsing albums !

[asdf1000]

57 minutes ago, davide256 said:

looks like you need to disable screensaver when remote controlling iPhone/iPad as Roon endpoint. If screensaver is running,, the zone disappears when I stop music

 

When you say screensaver, do you mean the Macbook's screensaver?

 

Or the endpoint iPhone/iPad screen-lock?

 

When I've tested, the iPhone/iPad zone is always showing in Roon Remote as long as private zone is off.

 

But I'll double check to see if I can reproduce this. I haven't seen this come up in the Roon forums at all though, since the v1.4 update a couple weeks ago.

 

[asdf1000]

27 minutes ago, davide256 said:

iPhone screenlock. If i stop music  from  core server control point after screenlock has begun, I can no longer control/see the iphone device  as a "play to" zone from server until I exit screenlock

 

Ah yes, I think that's normal to prevent continuous access & connection to the iPhone/iPad when it's screens locked.

 

Probably a standard iOS battery saving feature too. It would be cool if iOS could detect a wall charger is plugged in and all these background apps to keep WiFI connection. 

 

The easy solution is to keep the music playing :-)

 

If you turn on the 'radio' function of Roon, then once your album/queue finishes playing, it will then start radio mode of your entire collection, so the music continues.

 

[asdf1000]

15 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Turns out mys son's iPad Pro is 2 years old, didn't sound any different than my iPhone 6 as Roon endpoint, suspect it has same A8 processor. Still  fiddling with the iPhone 6 in preference to microRendu as Roon endpoint, sorting out how best to prolong battery life for 4-6 hour listening sessions. Wish there was a way to charge it at while CCK connected to Eitr.

 

Hi Dave, how many hours can you get with the iPhone 6? I would have thought easily 6 hours, especially with the screen display off?

 

Also, is there no way to use a mobile powerbank to charger the iPhone 6 while CCK is connected to Eitr?

 

This would probably get you 18 hours straight listening: http://www.tp-link.com.au/products/details/cat-5689_TL-PB20100.html

 

And being a battery based solution, it still keeps your iPhone Roon endpoint 'off the grid'

[asdf1000]

@davide256 a better solution:

 

The official Apple battery case which doubles battery life: 

 

https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MGQM2AM/A/iphone-6-6s-smart-battery-case-white

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Hadn't been turning off the display, that should make a big difference.

 

Oh yeh, huge difference. The display is the biggest drainer. You should get 6 hours easy. 

 

The other solution is getting an iPod Touch just for Roon endpoint duties - which has no cellular/mobile chip. That's something to consider if you prefer the iPhones sound to the excellent microRendu.