iPad Pro or Mac Airbook for server?

[One and a half]

Yes the drama with the Only player is that it copies the files onto the iDevice

 

Is there an ios player that accepts a network 'SAN' via fibre,  through wireless? By SAN implying some array that just has drives and less being software like most NAS these days. 

The fibre provides the speed and isolation as well as the large storage.

 

Just brainstorming! 

 

Agreed the ipad across usb is very good, but storage is the problem.

[One and a half]

Just compared the iPad into a Grace Design m920 via the CCK direct to pre-amp and the regular chain. Uisng Jremote to the "this Device' zone, the Media Server is on another, more powerful PC.

What's missing is 'air' around the instruments, and a loss of directional detail and a squashed depth of the sound stage. However, the tone and quality of reproduction is there, with the right weight of bass, so it's looking quite promising.

 

Now these 'defects' can be cured with USB fixer (have a Wyred4sound RUR spare), some decent cabling and remove the iPad SMPS, which is most likely responsible for a majority of the defects causing imaging problems. An old Kingrex linear supply I have is only 1.5A @ 5V, not enough, to supply the iPad and the DAC needs 2.5A+, so sourcing a 25W linear supply is on the horizon.

 

Note, the maximum fs is redbook, that's all the CCK seems to be capable of. There maybe 3rd party devices that exist that could go higher fs.

 

[One and a half]

23 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

I like and use Mac computers, and I also have an iPad. However the solution to the problem you describe above is an Android device running the USB Audio Player Pro app.

 

The storage is kept off the device, files reside on a separate UPnP server, and can be accessed by the UAPP app over WiFi, and output bit perfect via an OTG compatible USB cable to the DAC.

 

As an added bonus, the above is also a mobile solution with local playback from either the resident storage capacity on the Android device, or as much as 400GB more from a microSDXC card.

 

In another 6 months or so, Samsung or SanDisk will likely up that to 512GB via microSDXC, but that card doesn't yet exist right now.

The thought of an in house lossless streaming service, like a uPNP server capable of PCM and DSD that has music files off the iPad was on my mind, then I read your post on Android. I thought the file service on iOS 11 was like Finder, but all I get is the iCloud nonsense.

 

I have the Onkyo HF player on the iphone, and it works quite well, plays DSD everything, great in the car, just studying if it accepts a network stream, but not looking like it does.

[One and a half]

OK, there's Neutron Music player, which can obtain files from SMB, uPnP, FTP network shares. Can accept DSD64 native or DoP or output directly from the iDevice to 768kHz...and gapless. Wow. And on iOS. AUD9.99.

 

I check out mConnect and 8Player.

[One and a half]

Will advise what happens with Neutron, the UI is butt ugly, but it does play DSD. So far the collection of data is taking a long time, suppose 50,000 tracks does take some time, Roon for example takes several days..BTW, is an iPad an endpoint far as Roon is concerned?

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, MikeyFresh said:

That was one of the problems I had with Neutron, took forever to scan the library and ended up in some sort of endless loop, never actually completing.

 

I am not a Roon user, but a friend in San Diego is and he just recently mentioned how the most current Roon update makes any iOS device a Roon endpoint.

Neutron is a heap of sh$t. While scanning the uPNP library, a message came up as 'failed', yes but at what?? Adios!

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

I used all these apps before (Neutron, 8Player, mConnect, BubbleUPnP, JRiver).

 

There was no looking in the rear view mirror after playing with a free 2 week Roon trial.... And now both iOS and Android devices are Roon endpoints which opens up heaps of possibilities.

 

The price is high but you really do get what you pay for, especially if you have more than one "endpoint" around the house.

 

Thanks Em2016 for commenting on iOS and Android being endpoints for Roon.

 

How does it work, does Roon catalog all devices on the network and sends the music via a zone, or does an app be installed on the iPad to work? All I see are Roon remote control apps or apps for Airbnb....stoopid search tool. I can spell, Roon, not Room.

How does an IPad work with DSD?

This is sending the file, presumably by Roon protocol to the lightning port, then the DAC.

[One and a half]

It's been three hours, Roon has detected all 50,000 files, but is 10% through the 'analyzing' process. The whole process will take well into Sunday to complete. I tried to use 14 cores, but the analysis count didn't increase at a corresponding rate, so left the process with 6 cores.

Using HQPlayer as the engine, there's no click at the beginning of a DSD album's next track, hooray!

Next to install the remote on the iPad.

[One and a half]

OK, a DSD64 is played through the iPad at 352.8 according to the m920 DAC. Playing high rates for DACs that have a driver and a 'real OS' behind them is kind of difficult for an iPad, maybe there's a DoP setting somehwere.

There's a lot of info missing listening to Shelby Lynne, 'Just a little lovin' ' that reverb is non existent, but early days yet in finding the way through. At least Roon sending data to the iPad is a start.

It looks like PCM is played correctly, 96kHz, 48, 44.1, cool.

[One and a half]

Thanks, DoP is working correctly in the DAC, the differences are now the volume compared to the main DAC which is a lot down, but at least it's there  Differences can be A/B directly, so it's a matter of HQPlayer engine versus RAAT and the m920 DAC and all the associated USB fixing. 

 

Certainly easier to setup than Neutron even with HQPlayer added on. 

 

I tried the previous versions of Roon, which were hard to stomach, there was a point in the software's operation that really annoyed me on several points, only lasted a few days, then cancelled.

Version 1.4 is different and not annoying enough to scrap it, so something is working like a regular player. The metadata is another issue whether that came through OK. Although the critics comments still suck, there's only a sentence or two, just wish it would begone, have the Internet to look up such data if needed. Now where's that button.

[One and a half]

Everything is working transmitting files to the DAC as per the sample rate of the file, from the core to the iPad -> Lightning connector -> DAC. The m920 DAC only accepts maximum DSD(128) as DoP, for the sake of this exercise, the concept works.

 

The fly in the ointment is Apple - Roon combo (?). The digital out on the lightning connector shows full volume on the control centre, however the final output is only a fraction. Compared to other inputs, as a guess, about 10-20db lower than other line inputs to the preamp. The volume gain on the m920 is set at 96% which works fine for the myTuner app, as the volume compared from that app through the lightning connector/ CCK on the other preamp inputs, like FM radio are about the same, but for Roon is way down. 

 

One way around this, is to convert to USB -> AES3, then use a pro amp to tweak the gain to max +20db, then use the analog out to trim the output on the DAC's volume or have a DAC with volume settings to 200%, if there is such a beast.

 

Or Roon adds a volume control to the iPad zone, taking into consideration the low level gain from the iPad.

 

To @davide256, perhaps if you want a solution right now, is to use the MacBookAir instead.

 

For Roon to control the iPad, the remote control app for Roon on the iPad needs to be active on screen, and not as a background app.

 

[One and a half]

26 minutes ago, davide256 said:

do you see the same issue with PCM? I'm not concerned about DSD as long as it can be transcoded to PCM.

Yes, the DAC sees everything to its maximum of 384kHz. Whatever Roon plays in PCM, 96, 192, 48 etc. the DAC displays the same sample rate.

[One and a half]

8 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Something is not right and I’m sure we can find the issue.

 

Can you post your Roon signal path? Like the one I showed earlier with the guy doing DSD256 out of the iPad.

 

This will tell us what is happening. You should also go into audio settings for the zone and select fixed volume and ‘set to max’ - not DSP or Mixer volume.

 

I reckon you have volume levelling turned on for a 10db drop.

 

We’ll find the fly :-)

Here's the panel for the iPad

 

 

An alternative was to use "Device Volume" but at 60-88% nothing much happens, but at least the volume matches the other line inputs.

[One and a half]

5 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Ok and the Roon signal path, during playback that is 10-20dB lower?

 

Click that little purple/blue 'light' or 'star'.

 

Should show something like the  below link I sent earlier. This tells you everything happening to the signal.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-4-feedback/35229/153

 

Send a screenshot through if you can.

 

Here's a shot that works well

 

for the iPad, changed to Device Volume. Also switched off the DSP actions. It's working better now.

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Playing around now with Roon to my iDevices, liking what I hear better than microRendu, just fuller sound, dynamics and hard transients playing CD quality music. Moving on next to high rez music.That CCK/USPCB connection from iDevice to Eitr is awkward, wondering if a better  option exists?

I tried an lightning extension cable, didn't work. For another digital out though, the Apple CCK is it.

I think there are headphone amps that accept lightning connections, but there's the trade off already in another D/A conversion. For fun, try the Apple 3.5mm to lightning DAC, you won't have it running for long.

[One and a half]

Hmm, the post on SQ vanished... oh well.

 

Thumbs up for the Roon/iPad/CCK/USB out. Certainly doesn't cause any degradation, the way the test is setup, I compare the signature of the two DACs in different zones playing the same tracks and cabling rather than the signal source itself. Tomorrow if vantage is available, can try with the MPD-3 direct. If that works out OK, then the likes of an Aries has some very tough competition. If the predicted image problem takes place, then it's all power supplies and some signal integrity to adopt, usual practices. 

 

This will be using RAAT exclusively and not HQ Player, a plus with less overhead, cause the upsampling in HQ player really bothers me.

[One and a half]

Strike 1. MPD-3 DAC PCM sample rate changes, don't change when played from the iPad. No DSD native possible, the DAC can accept either DoP or native. Sample rates work when the USB cable is unplugged/replugged. The PCM sound when it does come through is very, very good.

 

Strike 2. MPD-3 can only play DSD through Roon on cable via DoP. Yuk. Sibilance rears its ugly head.. Looks as though HQ Player as an audio zone is the only alternative for the MPD-3.

 

Strike 3. Playback Designs aren't tested by Roon.

[One and a half]

On the topic of the 'cable', the computer's USB output was wired to the MPD-3 DAC, without the iPad just using Roon as a 'straight' player.

The driver is on the host PC, so Roon should pickup and play DSD native, like Jriver or HQPlayer. Problem was Roon could not play DSD native to the DAC, I had to use DoP.  All other zones were not selected, so there should not have been control from other sources for the same thing.

When that didn't work, I tried the DP-720 USB input from the same host PC, that worked for a couple of tracks at different fs, after about the third track, the DAC lost comms.  

After this dilemma, tried HQPlayer to play directly and it couldn't detect the DP-720 either, nor could device manager or the player's control panel. On that note, gave up and removed Roon, don't need the stress. This morning's task is to check what went wrong on the DP-720.

[One and a half]

The problem with the DP-720 is a Centrance driver. It works fine on 44.1kHz, but anything else mutes signal randomly, this is with either HQPlayer or Jriver's buffers wound to the max. Either the standard 'high speed' Windows or the supplied driver behave the same. On another PC, the driver refused to load, since it's unsigned, so that's the end of that.

It's a shame and deadly annoying, cause red-book playback has such a wide sound-stage, and very 'musical', lots of air.... Time to stoke the flames and annoy the vendor.

 

An alternative is USB to MC-1.2 and convert to coax S/PDIF or TOSLINK. I do have a parallel CAT5e cable which can be used for an AES3 transmission from the MC-1.2 and convert to coax S/PDIF via a transformer for remote operation.

 

Better get stuck into that before Cinderella's appointment becomes due tonight.