may i know your favore audio cable to connect your dac to you amply? avoid please copper 99.9 cables

[beerandmusic]

4 hours ago, GUTB said:

BTW, what do you guys know about Belden 8402? It often comes up as an audiophile cable-killer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Belden-8402-Tuneful-Cables-6ft-RCA-Interconnects-Tube-Amplifier-Western-Electric/232042392009?epid=695788356&hash=item3606cde9c9:g:XYYAAOSwaB5XqKky

[Ralf11]

I don't see anything unusual about the Belden 8402 mic cable - I bet it is well made and will sound as good as all the others...

 

 

BTW< was looking at a Benchmark white paper the other day and they WERE able to measure distortion at speaker cable connections - they like and sell cables with Neutrik connectors

[gmgraves]

32 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I don't see anything unusual about the Belden 8402 mic cable - I bet it is well made and will sound as good as all the others...

 

 

BTW< was looking at a Benchmark white paper the other day and they WERE able to measure distortion at speaker cable connections - they like and sell cables with Neutrik connectors

 

Speaker connections carry a lot of current. Loose, dirty, or poor connections are going to be extremely susceptible to causing distortion. Air-tight connections of clean surfaces are de-riguer here. Much more so than with interconnects which are small signal cables and too a point more forgiving of less than optimum connections.  

[beerandmusic]

11 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

Speaker connections carry a lot of current. Loose, dirty, or poor connections are going to be extremely susceptible to causing distortion. Air-tight connections of clean surfaces are de-riguer here. Much more so than with interconnects which are small signal cables and too a point more forgiving of less than optimum connections.  

 

are they talking about using 8402 for speaker cables or rca connects?

 

i thought it was being suggested for rca connects similar to how the coax cable was mentioned using bnc -> rca adapters... The idea of using coax with shielding probably makes sense for either speaker cables and rca connects?

 

 

[gmgraves]

Just now, beerandmusic said:

 

are they talking about using 8402 for speaker cables or rca connects?

 

i thought it was being suggested for rca connects similar to how the coax cable was mentioned using bnc -> rca adapters

 

No, I think they mean Speakon connectors. Most sound reinforcement amps used them these days, and I've read that that they provide a much more gas-tight and positive (not to mention reliable) speaker connection than do bananas and other five-way binding post solutions. 

[beerandmusic]

17 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

No, I think they mean Speakon connectors. Most sound reinforcement amps used them these days, and I've read that that they provide a much more gas-tight and positive (not to mention reliable) speaker connection than do bananas and other five-way binding post solutions. 

 

but do you believe the belden 8402 or the other mentioned coax ( K_02232 ) would be excellent for either rca or speaker cable connects, right?

 

The idea of using coax with shielding probably makes sense for either speaker cables and rca connects?

 

[gmgraves]

19 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

but do you believe the belden 8402 or the other mentioned coax ( K_02232 ) would be excellent for either rca or speaker cable connects, right?

 

The idea of using coax with shielding probably makes sense for either speaker cables and rca connects?

 

 

I wouldn't use coax for speaker cable. First of all, there's no advantage to using shielded cable in such an application, and secondly speaker cable needs fairly heavy conductors (usually 14 gauge of bigger) and coax, even balanced coax just isn't big enough. There was a time when using coax for speaker cable could have made the transistor power amps unstable enough to go into ultra-sonic oscillation causing them to self-destruct due to thermal runaway. I don't think that there are any modern amps with that problem. 

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

 

I wouldn't use coax for speaker cable. First of all, there's no advantage to using shielded cable in such an application, and secondly speaker cable needs fairly heavy conductors (usually 14 gauge of bigger) and coax, even balanced coax just isn't big enough.

ok thanks...that makes sense...i just thought the shielding, and isolation might make sense....but i see what you mean about the AWG being to small on coax.

[jabbr]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

I don't see anything unusual about the Belden 8402 mic cable - I bet it is well made and will sound as good as all the others...

 

 

Belden is great about making different cables for different applications. 

 

For example, having the proper impedance matching is important for digital but much much less so for audio 0-50 kHz applications. Think of impedance as frequency dependent resistance. At DC the cable resistance should be much less than say 50 ohm, so the impedance doesn’t come into play at low frequencies. Similarly speaker cables should be thick — also with low resistance.

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

BTW< was looking at a Benchmark white paper the other day and they WERE able to measure distortion at speaker cable connections - they like and sell cables with Neutrik connectors

 

Certainly. Neutrik XLR connectors are very high quality — look at the prices though! Downright dirt cheap if we are talking about “audiophile” cables. The connectors indeed may get be the most important part of the cable ?

[Ralf11]

"Downright dirt cheap"

 

- so they're no good, eh?

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Speaker connections carry a lot of current. Loose, dirty, or poor connections are going to be extremely susceptible to causing distortion. Air-tight connections of clean surfaces are de-riguer here. Much more so than with interconnects which are small signal cables and too a point more forgiving of less than optimum connections.  

 

In their 1998 Class A Amplifier design, Silicon Chip magazine recommended the use of gold plated heavy duty connectors for the speakers.

"Interestingly, while investigating an increase in distortion which was eventually blamed on the spring loaded speaker terminals as noted above, we also checked whether the headphone/speaker switching caused any distortion.It didn't. "

[Ralf11]

How many amps are likely to flow to some 3.7 Maggies during a transient?

 

I have some arc-welding connectors I could gold-plate if I need to, but they seem happy with the recessed bananas on those things...

[RichardSF]

For high quality at good prices, Blue Jean Cable:

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm

[Speedskater]

Belden 8402 is a Shielded Twisted Pair (STP) cable. It would be very good for an XLR balanced interconnect or microphone cable.  Not so good for a RCA unbalanced interconnect. Sure it will work OK for shorter length cables, but there are better and less expensive choices. With 20AWG conductors, they are a bad choice for speaker cables.

 

As for coax speaker cables, there are some large (½inch diameter or more) coax cables that are OK for speaker cables. But very, very stiff.

[Speedskater]

For long good RCA interconnect cables there are three important needs:

 

1] A heavy shielding (as low as 14AWG) with low end-to-end resistance.

To reduce Common Impedance Coupling noise currents.

 

2] Good shielding. To reduce interference/noise voltage pick-up.

There are different views on what good shielding consists of.

 

3] Reasonably low total capacitance. 

But this can be situation specific

[jabbr]

16 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

"Downright dirt cheap"

 

- so they're no good, eh?

https://m.markertek.com/product/nc3mxx/neutrik-nc3mxx-3-pin-male-xlr-cable-connector-nickel-silver#ath

 

https://m.markertek.com/product/nc3fm-xlr-6/neutrik-unisex-xlr-microphone-cable-6ft?NC3FM-XLR-6#ath

 

or if that’s too expensive something like : Canare L-4E6S Microphone Cable | XLR-M to XLR-F | Neutrik Gold | 4 Feet | 4 Ft. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HHIV7EA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ZdssAbKMQTHBC

 

These are the types of cables I use for my own “expensive” equipment?

 

 

[Speedskater]

Say what! Unisex XLR connectors.

Neutrik makes excellent connectors (although I like the old fashioned M&F gold ones), Canare makes execllent cables and Markertek is an excellent provider.

But few of use need a Star-Quad cable.

[exdmd]

AudioQuest Water interconnects. They are considerably better than the Blue Jeans cables they replaced. Worth the difference in price to me. Here is a link to a review scroll down and read the comments from the studios who are now using Water.

[Ralf11]

7 minutes ago, exdmd said:

AudioQuest Water interconnects. They are considerably better than the Blue Jeans cables they replaced. Worth the difference in price to me. Here is a link to a review scroll down and read the comments from the studios who are now using Water.

 

 

I see that Bruce Lee's prophecy is now fulfilled

[bigbob]

I would love to agree, that these Nordost Valhalla speaker ribbons sound the same as the Monster Cable speaker wire that looked like lamp cord.

 

I appreciate the expertise of @gmgraves and his astute observations about the physics of wire, cable and interconnects.

 

I do not suffer from "I just spent$7800 on speaker cables, they better damn sound better"-syndrome because they were a gift. I have zero financial interest. I am using a Denon AVR-2805 and a pair of Large Advent Loudspeakers (particle board with vinyl wood covering). I also received the XOT crossover transducers. All three came as a unit, I just provided an electrical outlet and the Advents.

 

Call it psychometric imaging or some other meaningless buzz word, but I have never heard music with such clarity from these speakers. I can hear a difference.

 

There is no wizardry from Audiophile reviews to cause bias because before I heard these speaker ribbons on my Advents, I would have agreed--that wire is a conductor, and nothing more. I can not say that any longer without a degree of mendacity.

[GUTB]

15 minutes ago, bigbob said:

I would love to agree, that these Nordost Valhalla speaker ribbons sound the same as the Monster Cable speaker wire that looked like lamp cord.

 

I appreciate the expertise of @gmgraves and his astute observations about the physics of wire, cable and interconnects.

 

I do not suffer from "I just spent$7800 on speaker cables, they better damn sound better"-syndrome because they were a gift. I have zero financial interest. I am using a Denon AVR-2805 and a pair of Large Advent Loudspeakers (particle board with vinyl wood covering). I also received the XOT crossover transducers. All three came as a unit, I just provided an electrical outlet and the Advents.

 

Call it psychometric imaging or some other meaningless buzz word, but I have never heard music with such clarity from these speakers. I can hear a difference.

 

There is no wizardry from Audiophile reviews to cause bias because before I heard these speaker ribbons on my Advents, I would have agreed--that wire is a conductor, and nothing more. I can not say that any longer without a degree of mendacity.

 

Speaker cables make a significant difference, more so than any other cable in a system. In fact I believe most anyone could benefit from upgrading their speaker cables. I have cheap Amazon cables, good Blue Jeans 10 Whites with the heavy locking bananas and Audio Sensibility Statements -- the Audio Sensibilities aren't anything special just OCC copper, Teflon dialectic, shielded and dampened, and they blow away the Blue Jeans.

[bigbob]

32 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

Speaker cables make a significant difference, more so than any other cable in a system. In fact I believe most anyone could benefit from upgrading their speaker cables. I have cheap Amazon cables, good Blue Jeans 10 Whites with the heavy locking bananas and Audio Sensibility Statements -- the Audio Sensibilities aren't anything special just OCC copper, Teflon dialectic, shielded and dampened, and they blow away the Blue Jeans.

 

I would still say that IF I ever win the $500 Million Lottery--a pair of Nordost Valhalla speaker wires would NOT be on any list of Must Have.

But the Christmas spirit overtook the situation and I was given the best sounding gift I could ask for. And when we say, it's the thought that counts--I hear it every song, every day!

I stay close to home and listen to music virtually from awakening to sleep. I leave the TV on with closed captions. Just in case we get one of the Hawaiian warnings...the missile is incoming--quick, out of your library, what would you listen to for the final 30 minutes?

 

Random playlist, the music player on shuffle, play the whole dang 4Tb of music....

[MetalNuts]

If one does not believe cables have an effect on the sound produced why bother to ask or reply at all.  If one cannot hear the difference, no one can compel him or make him hear the difference.  It is a subjective judgment and everyone is born different, some may be sensitive enough to hear it, some may not. 

[Ralf11]

Speaker cables can make a significant difference because cone drivers present a reactive load, not a simple resistance.

 

No reason they need to be expensive.

[Ralf11]

BTW, Neutrik connectors are nearly gas-tight