gaia Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 hi may i ask your favorite cable to connect your dac to your amply? let's avoid the copper 99.9% cable just because they are so exansive i have tried ugreen and urgen ,haven't found any differences i found this link cable review they put amazon cable the best may i know you feebacks? thanks iMac sierra 10.12.6, mabook pro sierra 10.12.6 , iphone 6S Link to comment
GUTB Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 The cables I use for critical components range in price from $300-$600 which I can recommend — but you want cheap cables. No inexpensive cables I’ve tried were competitive, sorry. You can take a chance with Chinese OCC cables, those are often under $100. Check out China hi-fi and AliExpress. I think Pangea has some Cardas copper cables that are affordable. Check out the Supra LoRad cables too. AFAIK the best copper conductors are Japanese OCC and Cardas copper. Also when it comes to power cables, the connectors are very important. Names to look for are Furutech and Oyaide, although you probably won’t see those on legit Chinese cables. gaia 1 Link to comment
gaia Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 24 minutes ago, GUTB said: The cables I use for critical components range in price from $300-$600 which I can recommend — but you want cheap cables. No inexpensive cables I’ve tried were competitive, sorry. You can take a chance with Chinese OCC cables, those are often under $100. Check out China hi-fi and AliExpress. I think Pangea has some Cardas copper cables that are affordable. Check out the Supra LoRad cables too. AFAIK the best copper conductors are Japanese OCC and Cardas copper. Also when it comes to power cables, the connectors are very important. Names to look for are Furutech and Oyaide, although you probably won’t see those on legit Chinese cables. hi I use very exansive cable to connect my cd player to my amply and my amply to the speakers ,i really spent a lot i 'm talking about the best cheap cable to connect a smartphone or laptop with integrated audio card i would like to know about this cheap cable (that avoid noise) could sound worse than normal cable (noisy) ? i know it's a silly question thanks iMac sierra 10.12.6, mabook pro sierra 10.12.6 , iphone 6S Link to comment
mansr Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 RG-58 or similar coax with good quality plugs is all you need. Don't pay more than $50 for a typical length. For balanced connections, other cable types are obviously needed. Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 4 hours ago, gaia said: hi I use very exansive cable to connect my cd player to my amply and my amply to the speakers ,i really spent a lot i 'm talking about the best cheap cable to connect a smartphone or laptop with integrated audio card i would like to know about this cheap cable (that avoid noise) could sound worse than normal cable (noisy) ? i know it's a silly question thanks Here's my favorite that sounds better than my previous $2,000 interconnects: https://www.amazon.com/Mogami-Microphone-XLR-Female-Gold-Connectors/dp/B0002E1P2Q 4est 1 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
plissken Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Mogami Gold for my Balanced connections. Link to comment
GUTB Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 6 hours ago, gaia said: hi I use very exansive cable to connect my cd player to my amply and my amply to the speakers ,i really spent a lot i 'm talking about the best cheap cable to connect a smartphone or laptop with integrated audio card i would like to know about this cheap cable (that avoid noise) could sound worse than normal cable (noisy) ? i know it's a silly question thanks Sorry I misunderstood your question. What your looking for, optimally, are thick gauge OCC conductors (copper or silver) with high-quality plugs and Teflon or air dielectric. As far as I know only China (supposedly) offers all that for cheap. But, I found a few cable builders on eBay who makes good cables which don’t suck for well under $100: Amplifier Surgery: an outfit in Australia that makes silver conductor cables. Directionally controlled. Thin and stiff, uses twisting for noise rejection. These guys make all sorts of special format cables like 3.5mm to RCA, RCA to XLR, phono, etc. World’s Best Cables: they use pro cable stock (Ie, Belden) and decent connectors. Directionally controlled. Pro cables are well insulated, flexible, and properly constructed. Of course there’s Blue Jeans in the quality pro cable category — you get better construction quality for a higher price, but sonically they’re no better. gaia 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Norton Posted December 28, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2017 DNM solid core interconnect, about £70 for a terminated stereo pair. gaia and semente 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post gmgraves Posted December 28, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2017 14 hours ago, gaia said: hi may i ask your favorite cable to connect your dac to your amply? let's avoid the copper 99.9% cable just because they are so exansive i have tried ugreen and urgen ,haven't found any differences i found this link cable review they put amazon cable the best may i know you feebacks? thanks Audio interconnect cables have no effect on sound quality. The cheapest (perhaps from Amazon or other sources like mycablemart.com) and the worlds most expensive (such as Nordost Valhalla II) sound exactly alike. If you find that you hear a difference, your ears are most likely playing tricks on you. At some point, audio interconnects cross the line from being functional products known as conductors to being "audio bling". If that's what you want, go for it, by all means. But if it's simple audio performance and only audio performance that you are looking for, buy cables with good build quality, decent molded strain reliefs, made from quality RG59U coaxial cable. These will give you a good, gas-tight connection, low reactance, and absolutely no measurable or audible signal loss over the few meters between your DAC and your amplifier. Keep this in mind, even cables sold as making one's stereo system sound better, by definition, are subtractive. If (and that's a big if) they sound different from other cables, it's because they are removing something from the signal that the other cable is not removing (or vice versa). It is physically impossible for a conductor to add anything to the sound, it's just a piece of wire and wire is passive. mansr and sarvsa 2 George Link to comment
GUTB Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, gmgraves said: Audio interconnect cables have no effect on sound quality. The cheapest (perhaps from Amazon or other sources like mycablemart.com) and the worlds most expensive (such as Nordost Valhalla II) sound exactly alike. This is misinformation. Even if you don’t believe in anything that can’t be measured objectively and even if you discount indirect factors like vibration control, there are objective, measurable aspects of an interconnect cable that does impact sound. Inductance, capacitance, etc. There’s a reason why virtually all high-end cable manufacturers moved to OCC copper. There’s a reason why manufacturers go to such lengths to make air dielectric cables. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 gaia - what country are you in? get the Mogami Gold if easily available - they are well built you can ignore those arguing that expensive cable sound better until they can produce some valid listening tests - most of them are candidates for a Darwin Award and play silly games ;] gmgraves 1 Link to comment
GUTB Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 11 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: gaia - what country are you in? get the Mogami Gold if easily available - they are well built you can ignore those arguing that expensive cable sound better until they can produce some valid listening tests - most of them are candidates for a Darwin Award and play silly games ;] What was the result of your last listening test? Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 try to avoid crapping on this guy's thread ok? Link to comment
exdmd Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Ralf11 said: try to avoid crapping on this guy's thread ok? Yeah really. People who claim cables make no difference remind me of those climate change deniers. Any change you make to an audio system makes a difference. The question is the improvement worth the cost to you? Link to comment
Popular Post gmgraves Posted December 29, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 29, 2017 1 hour ago, GUTB said: This is misinformation. Even if you don’t believe in anything that can’t be measured objectively and even if you discount indirect factors like vibration control, there are objective, measurable aspects of an interconnect cable that does impact sound. Inductance, capacitance, etc. There’s a reason why virtually all high-end cable manufacturers moved to OCC copper. There’s a reason why manufacturers go to such lengths to make air dielectric cables. No, this is not misinformation. Once again my friend, you are the victim of "a little knowledge being a dangerous thing"! Yes, inductance and capacitance do affect the measurable aspects of cables. If we were talking about frequencies of 10 MHz or greater, I would agree with you. But we're not. If you were talking about interconnect runs of fifty feet or more, I would agree with you. But again, we're not. We're discussing, at most, a 50 KHz bandwidth here (and that's pushing it). At audio frequencies, the effects of capacitive and inductive reactance in cables with a half to, at most, three meters in length is inaudible (being much less than a tenth of a dB) and damn near immeasurable! You can work out the maths though all you need to do is look up the cable specs from the manufacturer, and note the amount of capacitance and inductance per foot that the cable has, and then, using then highest frequency you are interested in (probably 20KHz) work out the impedance per foot at 20 KHz,, and work out the attenuation per foot in dB. Multiply that result by the number of feet of length of the cable under test. When you do, you will find that a 1-meter length of RG59U coax will attenuate a 20 KHz signal by far less than 1dB. NOBODY could possibly hear that or notice it in any way! If you have a cable that attenuates a 20KHz frequency more than that, then you're not talking about a conductor any more, you're talking about a filter and somewhere in that "cable" there are added capacitors and/or inductors, because plain cable can't have enough of either of those characteristics to have any affect on the conducted audio signal. RF, RADAR microwaves? A different story. OTOH, if you have a cable that is microphonic enough to be adversely affected by vibration, you have a very poorly designed and/or constructed cable. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that except for the possibility of an interconnect between a low-output moving coil cartridge and a MC preamp, it is damn near impossible for any interconnect to introduce any vibrational feedback into the system! And you are right about one thing. There is a reason why virtually all high-end cable manufacturers moved to OCC copper. There’s a reason why manufacturers go to such lengths to make air dielectric cables. They can charge more such "superior cables". I spent three years in the Lockheed Missile and Space Company's "Polaris/Poseidon cable laboratory". I have measured, stressed, destroyed, tested, and characterized every kind of cable and connector and dielectric and insulator known to science, and I think I have a pretty good understand of how cable works, what it's strengths and weaknesses are, and what it can and cannot do at every frequency from DC to daylight! I have environmentally tested cable on shake tables capable of mimicking a 9.0 earthquake, in temperatures approaching that of the sun and approaching absolute zero. I've tested them under water and in a complete vacuum. So, believe me or not, but you won't find anyone here who knows more about wire and cable characteristics, electrical, mechanical, or environmental than I do. Just saying..... wwaldmanfan and mansr 2 George Link to comment
gmgraves Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 1 hour ago, GUTB said: What was the result of your last listening test? I'll tell you mine. It's been a while, but the last cable "shoot-out" in which I participated, a carefully arranged double blind test showed that sonic differences heard between ordinary, inexpensive Monster interconnects and some really expensive ones from Kimber and AudioQuest disappeared into thin air in the DBT. Nobody on the listening panel could tell one form the other, which is, of course, what the physics would predict. George Link to comment
Popular Post Allan F Posted December 29, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 29, 2017 4 hours ago, gmgraves said: Audio interconnect cables have no effect on sound quality. The cheapest (perhaps from Amazon or other sources like mycablemart.com) and the worlds most expensive (such as Nordost Valhalla II) sound exactly alike No, the cheapest and most expensive cables don't sound exactly the same, George. Some interconnect cables sound the same, while others may sound noticeably different. That has certainly been my experience in the many years I have enjoyed this hobby. You have been beating this drum too long. The problem with most of these DBTs has been discussed many times and need not be repeated. elcorso and MikeyFresh 1 1 "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
MikeyFresh Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 1 hour ago, One and a half said: You're welcome any time to contribute something positive to answer the OP, but it may take another 3960 posts for this reality to occur. That sounds about right, but he won't do it at all, too busy with trolling and feeble attempts at wit, which are actually just veiled insults. Put him on your Ignored member list, many of us have done just that and now we only see his BS when others quote it. Boycott HDtracks Boycott Lenbrook Boycott Warner Music Group Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 I know the answer.... the answer is that people that have spent over $100 for a cable can hear a difference....and i am convinced that "they" are convinced. mansr 1 Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Allan F said: No, the cheapest and most expensive cables don't sound exactly the same, George. Some interconnect cables sound the same, while others may sound noticeably different. That has certainly been my experience in the many years I have enjoyed this hobby. You have been beating this drum too long. The problem with most of these DBTs has been discussed many times and need not be repeated. George agreed that some sound different, that some sound different because they filter something. Link to comment
One and a half Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 17 hours ago, mansr said: RG-58 or similar coax with good quality plugs is all you need. Don't pay more than $50 for a typical length. For balanced connections, other cable types are obviously needed. If only audio equipment would be fitted with F connectors. Same physical size as the RCA and auto provision to add an external ground. Could also use these. for the cable though the shield coverage varies quite a lot with RG58, AL foil is popular, but there needs to be something else, mechanically the foil can break and is only useful for fixed installations. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 "Audio interconnect cables have no effect on sound quality." one exception to George's correct stmt above - noise can sometimes get into a component via single-ended cables, so balanced cables (& properly designed components can reject that noise) - in that respect, interconnect could affect SQ too bad some mystic unicorns on here keep claiming science and engineering is BS, as freshboy did above Link to comment
gaia Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 9 hours ago, gmgraves said: Audio interconnect cables have no effect on sound quality. The cheapest (perhaps from Amazon or other sources like mycablemart.com) and the worlds most expensive (such as Nordost Valhalla II) sound exactly alike. hi i don't think it's right, i connect my cd player marantz special edition kis with my amp marantz or densen and they are connected to my speaker with very exansive cable copper 99.9 and they make an huge different ,i bought in high fidelity audio store 8 hours ago, Ralf11 said: gaia - what country are you in? get the Mogami Gold if easily available - they are well built hi i live in Italy I don't want to spend a lot of money for my laptop or smartphone ,just because i play vinyls and cd originals so i bought a ugreen cable , the noise is almost 0% what i want to ask is these cheap cable of belkin or ugree , (with very low noise) do have an impact in the audio player quality? i mean do they sound opaque , less vibrant then cheap old cable without isolation i guess ugreen and belkin use dual-shielding & high-quality polished metal connectors and ferrite bead thanks iMac sierra 10.12.6, mabook pro sierra 10.12.6 , iphone 6S Link to comment
jabbr Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 10 hours ago, gmgraves said: I spent three years in the Lockheed Missile and Space Company's "Polaris/Poseidon cable laboratory". I have measured, stressed, destroyed, tested, and characterized every kind of cable and connector and dielectric and insulator known to science, and I think I have a pretty good understand of how cable works, what it's strengths and weaknesses are, and what it can and cannot do at every frequency from DC to daylight! I George, did you test various levels of EMI surrounding the components? My impression given my own tests, is that audible differences between cables are largely due to shielding etc ie noise, but haven’t spent the time you have investigating this (I just use balanced XLR and don’t worry Allan F 1 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 11 minutes ago, jabbr said: My impression given my own tests, is that audible differences between cables are largely due to shielding etc ie noise Yup my experience also - grounding and shielding method and impedance matching (or mis-match). I've learnt a lot about all that from John S along the way. Allan F 1 Link to comment
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