Operating systems and their sound signatures

[One and a half]

32 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 What a stupid thing to say. The Tesla set up only took over the supply of part of the South Australian end of the grid from the Eastern States. As for the quality of the power generated under those conditions, who knows ?

 The Tesla power may even have more higher order harmonics than the normal supply due to the Inverters needed to step up the voltages ? Someone else with expertise in  that area would need to answer that question.

 

Agree with your opinion on plissken's remark.

 

7.3MW injection into a power grid is a drop in the ocean. The inverters needed to inject such power are 'usually' HVDC Thyristor jobs, which take in the DC and with many thyristors switching at different angles, you can achieve a reasonable harmonic free output. They would be the same principle as the feeder between the North and South Islands of Kiwiland where a single cable is feeding two inverters. Power can be delivered either way, but with a battery, the direction ends there, doesn't it, no where to go.

 

An alternative is to have a number of PWM inverters each one capable of a smaller voltage, but string them together in a 3 phase star pattern into a regular transformer and there's high voltage with sufficient power and it can be brought online very quickly, the limitation is how fast the transformer can be energised. There the output is very low of of harmonics typically <0.01% THDV, since the cancellation of harmonics can occur in the way the output transformer is wired with opposing angles on the windings. What this does tho, is place tremendous di/dt on the DC supply requiring large (and lossy) chokes to keep the di/dt at bay and the efficiency of the transformer sags a little compared with the regular 98%+ efficiency. For a battery, good luck, the lumpy current draw would play havoc with the chemicals.

 

 

[sandyk]

11 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Ok, Can you resend me some files please.

 

Read my previous reply and you will see why I will decline your request.

 

"... The attached demonstrates exactly why I do not trust you.

You deliberately attempt to twist what others say to your advantage.

Of course they had different checksums, as one file was processed using SeeDeClip Duo Pro to reduce clipping and compression"

[plissken]

Here's a link on making sure two different files have identical MD5 hashes so you can troll the internet:

 

https://natmchugh.blogspot.com/2014/10/how-i-created-two-images-with-same-md5.html

[Miska]

1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

The HDMI is not needed for Windows as I can then access remotely, however for wtfplay the only way to control is via a monitor.

 

So what would be more desirable:

      monitor/HDMI but no SSD, no usb, no LAN (wtfplay setup)

or

      SSD, LAN but no HDMI (Windows/XXHighEnd setup)

?

 

Why does it need monitor? Wouldn't ssh work?

 

IMO, LAN but no HDMI. Network is least problematic of all the peripheral interconnects. SSD rather in form of something like M.2, USB memory stick or microSD. SATA and display connections like HDMI/DVI/VGA are most problematic.

 

And of course no keyboard, no mouse either.

 

P.S. I cannot emphasize this enough many times, do not use STP type audiophile network cables if you want noise isolation in the network. Those will specifically conduct the noises we want to get rid off. Only use standard compliant CAT6 UTP cables...

[Miska]

6 minutes ago, plissken said:

Here's a link on making sure two different files have identical MD5 hashes so you can troll the internet:

 

https://natmchugh.blogspot.com/2014/10/how-i-created-two-images-with-same-md5.html

 

MD5 is known to be vulnerable to intentional collisions, as is SHA-1 too. SHA-256 and SHA-512 are so far considered safe.

 

Although for detecting unintentional changes MD5 and SHA-1 work too, because the likelihood of accidental collision is so small. Winning lottery ten times in row is much more likely.

 

[plissken]

52 minutes ago, Miska said:

P.S. I cannot emphasize this enough many times, do not use STP type audiophile network cables if you want noise isolation in the network. Those will specifically conduct the noises we want to get rid off. Only use standard compliant CAT6 UTP cables...

 

This can't be overstated enough ^^.

 

CAT6 UTP is noise IMMUNE up to 30MHz.

[Ralf11]

3 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Read my previous reply and you will see why I will decline your request.

 

"... The attached demonstrates exactly why I do not trust you.

You deliberately attempt to twist what others say to your advantage.

Of course they had different checksums, as one file was processed using SeeDeClip Duo Pro to reduce clipping and compression"

 

c'mon - man up

 

send him the files like you said

 

or are you scared of something??

[Ralf11]

3 hours ago, One and a half said:

lumpy current draw 

 

 

 

 

maybe you should use a sieve

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

c'mon - man up

 

send him the files like you said

 

or are you scared of something??

 

 I sent him the files as described, and he deliberately misrepresented them in this thread.

They were as discussed in the thread of the time,. which was about trying to improve over compressed music files. Yes, he did correctly identify the differences between them, but even you should have been able to hear the differences between the original file and the Declipped version.

 

I have no intention of further involving Plissken in any comparison tests.

 

 

[PeterSt]

9 hours ago, bodiebill said:

So what would be more desirable:

      monitor/HDMI but no SSD, no usb, no LAN (wtfplay setup)

or

      SSD, LAN but no HDMI (Windows/XXHighEnd setup)

?

 

Quote

      SSD, LAN but no HDMI (Windows/XXHighEnd setup)

 

Hey bodiebill,

 

If you'd use the RAM-OS feature then no SSD (or anything else) is needed.

When playback has started (for as much as your memory permits, say 4 Redbook albums) you can pull the LAN cable as well. And, because you're "obviously" working headless (no keyboard, mouse and monitor), you'd have to put back in the LAN cable for remote control.

I myself only pull pork but I know of people who pull the USB cable for the USB connected disks (instead of LAN) once playback has started.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

[PeterSt]

Maybe it makes sense to some when I myself add to the OS pile that the most important to SQ degradation is the use of a monitor. No wait, video card. So that should always be the base.

IMO this is not electrical noise related. Just OS related matter.

[semente]

52 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

 

Hey bodiebill,

 

If you'd use the RAM-OS feature then no SSD (or anything else) is needed.

When playback has started (for as much as your memory permits, say 4 Redbook albums) you can pull the LAN cable as well. And, because you're "obviously" working headless (no keyboard, mouse and monitor), you'd have to put back in the LAN cable for remote control.

I myself only pull pork but I know of people who pull the USB cable for the USB connected disks (instead of LAN) once playback has started.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

Can't you add a script that turns the Ethernet card on or off?

I find this kind of extreme behaviour somewhat paranormal...

[semente]

53 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

Maybe it makes sense to some when I myself add to the OS pile that the most important to SQ degradation is the use of a monitor. No wait, video card. So that should always be the base.

IMO this is not electrical noise related. Just OS related matter.

 

Benefits from not using a video card or any USB peripherals seem to me a good enough reason to use a renderer/buffer NUC with minimalist OS.

 

[bodiebill]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Why does it need monitor? Wouldn't ssh work?

 

 

wtfplay is not a player installed on top of a Linux OS, but a minimized audio player OS in itself. I know of no way to use ssh with wtfplay.

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

If you'd use the RAM-OS feature then no SSD (or anything else) is needed.

When playback has started (for as much as your memory permits, say 4 Redbook albums) you can pull the LAN cable as well. And, because you're "obviously" working headless (no keyboard, mouse and monitor), you'd have to put back in the LAN cable for remote control.

I myself only pull pork but I know of people who pull the USB cable for the USB connected disks (instead of LAN) once playback has started.

 

Thanks Peter, I will look into the RAM-OS option when I find the time.

[PeterSt]

2 hours ago, semente said:

Can't you add a script that turns the Ethernet card on or off?

 

Sure !

But you make us one which turns it on again when we want, OK ? 

[kilroy]

22 hours ago, ALRAINBOW said:

 

no Audio card use 3.0 usb on back 

 

 

 

Could be this one factor wipes out any improvements that might be had from the OS and it's optimization.

[lmitche]

16 minutes ago, kilroy said:

 

Could be this one factor wipes out any improvements that might be had from the OS and it's optimization.

In my experience SQ tweaks are usually cumulative, but bottlenecks to improvement can happen, with sideways movement until the obstacle is cleared.

 

Use of SATA SSDs is one example of something that will limit progress until removed. And yes, I know about SLC SSDs, special sata cabling, external power . . . 

[Summit]

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

 

Hey bodiebill,

 

If you'd use the RAM-OS feature then no SSD (or anything else) is needed.

When playback has started (for as much as your memory permits, say 4 Redbook albums) you can pull the LAN cable as well. And, because you're "obviously" working headless (no keyboard, mouse and monitor), you'd have to put back in the LAN cable for remote control.

I myself only pull pork but I know of people who pull the USB cable for the USB connected disks (instead of LAN) once playback has started.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

 

Can you explain why RAM-OS is better than SSD-OS? Ram is powered by and goes true the mobo while SSD can be powered by a LPS, so what do the ram memory do better?

[WuNgUn]

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Maybe it makes sense to some when I myself add to the OS pile that the most important to SQ degradation is the use of a monitor. No wait, video card. So that should always be the base.

IMO this is not electrical noise related. Just OS related matter.

Are you talking about RF interference? Part of the reason I'm galvanically isolated (optical).

[PeterSt]

15 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Maybe it makes sense to some when I myself add to the OS pile that the most important to SQ degradation is the use of a monitor. No wait, video card. So that should always be the base.

IMO this is not electrical noise related. Just OS related matter.

Are you talking about RF interference? Part of the reason I'm galvanically isolated (optical).

 

Merely peaky current draw. An SSD is the worst at that.

[WuNgUn]

13 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

He doesn't need to. All he needs to do is peruse many of the threads in the Uptone area of the forum, for example, where he will find a wealth of information written by a well respected E.E. and designer, on the various possible areas of SQ improvement including Linear PSUs. USB Regens. DC  cables etc. etc.

In other areas of the forum he will find numerous threads and reports about improvements when using better USB cables, including the very recent  Lush USB cable from the designer of XXHE player software for Windows, as well as his highly acclaimed Phasure NOS DAC designs.

 

If this poster is GENUINELY interested, as distinct from Ralf11 who had already made his mind up , he can  PM me for further information.

I have no doubt linear PSU's clean things up some...and decent cables may offer a slight improvement to SQ...

But to claim identical files pulled up and loaded into memory will play (sound) differently depending on what peripheral devices you have installed or what brand of RAM is used or whether your household power supply is nuclear or coal-fired...well....

I'm not trying to troll you, nor am I going on a goose chase searching for such "claims" on an open forum...

If you don't want to make your point here and now, that's fine too!

I have some ideas on improving my setup and they involve upgrading physical components.... 

[PeterSt]

21 minutes ago, Summit said:

Can you explain why RAM-OS is better than SSD-OS? Ram is powered by and goes true the mobo while SSD can be powered by a LPS, so what do the ram memory do better?

 

I have the whole lot powered from a linear power supply. But you won't hear me say it is about that.

You eliminate tons of overhead when there's RAM only (only the disk emulator remains). Easy to see by the vastly increased speed of everything.

 

Think of this too :

Only the sheer fact that a CDRom drive (or DVD Drive etc.) (which is empty !), is connected already makes a very well audible difference.

[WuNgUn]

1 minute ago, PeterSt said:

Think of this too :

Only the sheer fact that a CDRom drive (or DVD Drive etc.) (which is empty !), is connected already makes a very well audible difference.

Audible difference how? Noise floor? RFI? Background?

Or are you saying actual SQ is improved?

[PeterSt]

Just now, WuNgUn said:

Or are you saying actual SQ is improved?

 

That.

All matters. I could talk about it for days (or write multi volume books about it).