ALRAINBOW Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 In building servers and then comparing the OS and its sound I have found significance chAnge among them. Has anyone here done any comparisons . I did a triple boot of Windows 10 ,ser 2012 and 2016 all on the same system with AO 2.20 beta 5 and find pro all the same parameters used , no sound card , all linear psu,s used with seperate SSD drives for OS and internal music. Roon to hq player to USB out to two of my dacs. A lampi and a msb stack . My conclusion is in order of what I feel,is better top to bottom. Win ser 2016 win ser 2012 win 10 pro. To be honest the win 10 pro is not even close to the server OS systems . I have read so much on what sounds good and now after this conclusion I don't know how anyone can post win 10 is good . Maybe they never had the time or understanding of how to setup a server using the above software . Please comment on my post . Thanks simonklp 1 Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 26, 2017 Author Share Posted December 26, 2017 Guys thanks. I am not a novice as the post may have led you to think. I was reading on here in the server forums and how much some spend ona custom server and how far off reality in good sound they must be. I wanted to see if I am crazy. My current setup is a quad boot three pc setup the control pc is Zeon 3.5k series reclocked MSI atx size Board 4 gig Audio grade filtered ram running win 2016 and AO 2.20 beta 5 and fid pro roon the quad boot is as follows 120 gig sata 3 TRI partition for win 10 pro ,2012 ,2016 second hard drive 32 gig moded sata 2 drive win SER 2016 Four lps used OS drives each have there own 5 volt buss and atx amd cpu All seperate busses also I had one more lps just for spinning hard drives three 8 TB EACH now the music is on a CUST win 2016 server with AO AS above used for network storage alone I7 4.0k lps for atx ,cpu , and OS drive hard drives have there own lps 12/5 v bus 4 gig ram dac pc Is same I7 4.0k audio garde ram 4 gig. Win 2016 AO 2.20 beta 5 FID pro no usb Audio cards my finding is of the lps is used it’s not needed. It can be used if you use a ext usb drive that uses usb this improves things. Setup as follows cust win server for nas storage pc cust control sever running roon AO PC CUST player pc connected to dac via usb 3.0. PC AO fid pro All is lps powered I have tried Methods this is best to date. Reg lps while they can not be used and inprovmets are there. Using them every where gives a sound that is very close to vinyl having clean relaxed music with weight. Please comment on my observations Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 Good morong lol. Yes always keeping os and music on seperate 5 volt buss is a must gnd paths are trouble I agree. Lps and the mike have isolated secondary so it’s true isolation but when connected to dac or networks the fun begins. My room is ona 10 k isolated 208 volt input balanced 125 volt output the secondary is true isolation All to one point grounding starr point as some may call it. Clean power matters plenty but lps matters just as much. Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 I river 20.132 is the last j river that works with AO period. J river newer ones work fine on won server 2016. Hq player works fine as well also works on any windows and AO combo. For me win 10 is the least sounding good of the Windows but I get why most love it as it’s gui is most normal. But win 2016 is very much like win 10. Or win 8. But allows for AO to do more including tidal. If I were to advise someone on server for music it would be software wise as follows win SER 2016 AO 2.20 beta 5 roon hq player fid pro as an add on a 200 watt hd plex LPS hd plex 400 dc to atx internal psu board no Audio card use 3.0 usb on back one ssd for os two 1 TB ssd for music I7 6600K cpu fan or fanless but if fan and this is fine use a cheap 12 was wort for the fans both cpu and case and don’t use fans with led lights. Main board any really I like MSI and Asus or gig byte 4 gig of ram. You don’t want more as this makes things worse read AO Manuel well ask questions about bios settings this really matters. Turn off all cache and page files for All drives. Enjoy the great digital Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, PeterSt said: This is part of XXHighEnd (not the Demo version). It is downloadable software. It lets you boot into the stripped down OS. Or if you refer to those pre-installed OSes (I showed the boot menu of them) - this is available on HDD/SSD. Btw, maybe I should be sorry for posting in this thread. By now I don't understand the questions alrainbow purportedly has/had. Good that I actually responded to SandyK and Rando so it doesn't feel too much as a waste of time. Sorry if I confused your thoughts not my intention. But the stuff that gets posted that is contridicting is. I make no claim as a high tech person but do know good sound Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 Not going to byte on your reply so picking on my grammar while it seems grade school is not going to stop me how about you post a question or one of my confusing thoughts and let’s reply to it meaning ful just one thought at a time. Maybe we both can learn from the esxpereince what I have posted is done by me in trials not read from others. I really do mean no harm or foul play please let’s do this. Thanks in advance Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 PETER not to scare you but I do agree with some of your posts. Having said this donyou agree with this does any one part of a mainboard and its add ons IE video card , usb card , ssd drive network etc ? If yes it’s why it may better not to power the M2 card from Main board. If a server has one drive alone just for OS the sound inproves of that drive is not using the mainboard bus power. Adding and internal drive for music it also needs its own v buss. It’s not about power it’s abour noise going back to psu. Have you tried this concept just to test it. ? Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 3 hours ago, PeterSt said: Al, if I understand you correctly, you say that when I don't use the M.2 slot, I better cut the power to it. Is that right ? I don't use it (no peripheral devices anywhere - only the CPU !) but I now wonder where to be to cut that from the power. I did not investigate it either (yet). Or maybe you mean in the BIOS ? ? Sorry not my intended meaning. I meant if you are using it feed it with its own vbuss you would a sata drive Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, chauphuong said: A litle off the topic. I am using Windows 10 with AO on a single PC with satisfaction. However, I am just curious about all the hype regarding Windows Server 2012 or 2016 core mode plus AO. So I have some question before triggering: With Windows Server in Core mod plus AO... 1/Is it still headless like with Windows 10? Do I need a monitor to get music played? 2/ Can the PC connect to LAN, and can it be accessed from another computer in the same LAN (so that I can copy music files to the music playing PC)? 3/ Can I still use Android phones to remotely and headlessly control Foobar or Jriver? Thanks and all the best for a new coming year. Yes to all of your questions for win 2016 and it is the better of the three in sound for me. I made a triple boot setup to prove to myself it is. Win 2016 does not have a non gui core mode anymore it’s always in gui. Remote Desktop and controls are fine. May I ask have you gone into the bios to disable features to achieve better sound ? Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Don’t use that download data center with gui it’s a complete server. Weather you use it or not. Go inot the bios desable anything that is speed step turbo boost turn off all non used perifials default All auto to non auto but don’t make changes just not auto. Do not over clock now for the AO 2016 who does not feel it’s good a few options to try one is follow what I said above and all of this is in his website manual also. There are digital filters to set the first is numbers the next option is letters start as he says in the manual or as I use 1/A when you donas above the music is more relaxed ? harshness is gone. At the end a very analog sound is there. May I ask what drive is used and do you use an lps or not ? Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 minute ago, zackthedog said: It's probably going to be impossible to install any sort of playback software with 2016 core mode. With 2012 you could configure everything, then *switch* to core mode with a command line and use a remote control for your playback. Apparently 2016 doesn't offer that option. You can google and see many, many complaints from IT people... Not true in fact it’s closer to win 10 in looks and options. Use service tools to enable gui mode it restores all functions and then you install like you would in 2012 I use hq player j river foobar roon all work fine except for roon roon needs a full operating video driver the odds are your main drivers will not be enabled and set on min mode so unless you can find a driver you will get a open gl 3.0 error this can be fixed in two ways. One use roon server and use core on your server then use a control device like iPad or even a another pc desk top to control all functions. Two install a cheap gt420 nvidia card they have drivers for sever this allows for full gui also roon inot hq player is an amazing sound better than j river by a mile also hq player is much better than j river on its own as well. But roon has a better gui to use. Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Guys I don’t know what this argument is about but consider this we are here to help and as you can see I do try hard and get slapped back at times for it. My advice is enougj has been said Let or go. No one here is correct 100% of time we learn as we post I know I do. There are times what I post is correct but for tjhe wrong reasons let’s get through this. Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Oh good choice a 100 or two watt ? Post all how it’s wired I can give you some possible better sound for free in how it connects Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, zackthedog said: Oh, I see--you're disabling the GUI with AO, correct? I meant that you can't natively switch from from GUI to non-GUI mode as in 2012. Yes there is no non gui to pick from in won 2016 Phil said they removed him to allow he feature but you can choose to not use a monitor after setup is done win 2012 was great sound but a pain to use as it had no gui in core mode other than jriver. 2016 is a breeeze Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 One more question does you Main board have a 24 pin molex ? Or does it have a 12 volt input only ? this is critical manibnard model plesee Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 39 minutes ago, PeterSt said: Deleted. Peter by slapped I mean some of you are just cruel and abusive to others. Don’t get me wrong I don’t get hurt lol but on many forums abusive posts are delt with it seems here it’s ok. Dont worry I am really a street guy but don’t act as such here. I live in nyc and grew up in Brooklyn. All I wnat to do is help others and learn as I go. If we all post findings with building servers it’s far more input than us alone it’s why I am here. PETER your funny and I don’t get offended by you or others but no one here is god this is fundwmtal if you are ever in nyc plesee stip by with your dac i would love to hear it in my system and I for one respect All who put the time and effort into there products like you and miska this is where All makers should be Lebouwsky 1 Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 1 hour ago, BMCG said: with win 2016...you have to choose Core or GUI mode at OS install...you can't switch between these modes later...as you could previously with win 2012 and the AO ServiceTool.. cf: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/28455-audiophileoptimizer-beta-thread/?do=findComment&comment=661588 Thanks Phil a tough crowd here and I really appreciate your hard work for your product it adds so much to high end audio sound. Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 KINGREX is a friend and I am wanting him to try hq player. Truth is it’s tough at first and he worked very hard to get where he is now. I would rather he use roon first then add hq player for the finale lol Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 Give me a few he the the person who makes the phaser dac and xxhigjend player that works well with his dac. If I understand hisbsetup correctly red book and all else is upsampled to a very high pcm rate like 32/782. From who I did speak to it’s a very good dac but to sound it’s best needs his player and upsampled format. Again a very good dac setup. As for ram there are many who like this concept paul pang sells ram drives and there is software that allows its use to. In digital Audio there is a few camps in how to build a server one being ultra fast in all ways others slow also inside or outside drives. For me slow and inside is best but a windows or Linux based nas server with lps is also very good. Absolution rains in this stuff even though there is no real absolution proof. Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Video a very good example so allow me to add something there is a company called ps Audio who makes a power cond that is a REGEN type that means it’s hi end inverter when used for video be it the tv or cable box it’s inprovemt can be seen. Always now use this on your audio not always. Add to this the many forms of jitter in Audio in bedded or while it’s being processed all pc make noise and some feel less activity is less noise. Sounds true right ? I read but also do anything I have posted was done by me on my system for evail by me. While a lesser operating system does need less power. It still has a cause an effect to answer too. Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 For a guy who posted a simple question with a very rough start I am very pleased at The many answers posted. And the new stuff to try many thanks for all of the posts the little bit of Linux I have tried yields Linux is a bit thin where Windows SER 2016 and AO is thicker. I note piano on Linux lacks some bloom around the initial strike while Windows has this very needed quality it’s like Stats and ribbons where Stats lack the weight of ribbons but seem faster Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 I would like to offer you guys to try HQ player I used j river for years and hq player on and off due to its gui and complex settings. Having said this the improvment in sound is really worth the effort. Also roon streaming to hq player in one machine is even better sound and makes j river look bad in its simple but amazing GUI I have no affiliation with any makers or sellers. Also try 2016 it’s even better than 2012 and has a full desktop unlike 2012. I have been using server and AO for years Lebouwsky 1 Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 I will never figure out why jriver who ruled the roost purposely moved away from AO and j play back then it was the two pc setup to use. Even if they just stopped j play that while it was not a player had a name that was way to close to j river. Perhaps a royalty for use from j play. Roon is the ruler now in its many configuration possibilities and ease of use. I wonder why j river never got that close. I have read that tidal and jriver was tidal who moved away perhaps it was money ? but roon , tidal and hq player = bliss sound and ease of use. Be it what ever OS we use. Windows is plug and play for the most part I am now playing around with Linux as well. Link to comment
ALRAINBOW Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 On 1/5/2018 at 4:12 PM, zackthedog said: Well, I'd urge you to persist, because this sounds a lot better than Snakeoil, IMO. When you have another free half-hour, try this: 1A) Start with Unbuntu 17 mini net install. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD. Name the machine "debianmusic" and user "usbaudio". 1B) At software select choose basic system services, Open SSH and Samba. 2) Once installation is done, SSH in and replace the kernel with "apt-get install linux-lowlatency". 3) Install alsa-base, alsa-utils, MPD, avahi-daemon and lighttpd and configure as directed. 4) Configure Samba as directed. Skip usb mount and static ip address, you don't need them. Skip acpi/acpid unless you find you need them later. 5) Install upmpdcli as directed on their web page. Before installing, do "sudo apt-get install software-properties-common". Then you can install upmpdcli. 6) Shut down, attach your DAC, restart and configure MPD. Restart. You now have a first-class renderer/MPD player. You can connect to the server from your main PC and transfer music to the music folder and play direct with any MPD controller, or connect from JRiver or Audirvana as a renderer. If you want to get fancy you can install Bubbleupnp and play Tidal from BubbleUp or Kazoo. :-) When you say snake oil what are you referring to ? Windows or player sorry for my ignorance Link to comment
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