HQP, Roon, DSD512 Overheating SSD shutting system down

[Allan F]

I recently bought an i7-7700 music server to run HQPlayer and Roon upsampling everything to DSD512 for my new T+A DAC8 DSD. After I got everything set up to do DSD512, I left the DAC on overnight to burn it in. When I got up the next morning, the DAC had stopped and the server displayed the warning: "Please back-up your data and replace your hard disk drive...Press F1 to continue". I identified the source of the problem as an overheating Samsung 960 Evo SDD that contains my Windows 10 Pro OS, HQP, and Roon. Samsung recommends a maximum operating temperature of 70C. My SSD was reaching over 79C. In fact, at idle doing absolutely nothing, the temperature of the drive reaches 59C.

 

My PC is in a Streacom fanless case. The M.2 SSD has a copper heat sink attached to it. The mobo is an Asus Q170T. I was wondering if anyone has experienced similar problems. What are people using as a drive for the OS, HQP and Roon? Are there ways to to address the overheating SSD problem without adding a fan? I want to be able to run HQP and Roon at DSD512 continuously without the SSD overheating and shutting the system down.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Allan F]

Perhaps I should add that, while upsampling to DSD512, CPU utilization appears to be under 35%.

[guiltyboxswapper]

35% with Roon upsampling is likely to be 70% (significant load) due to the computational nature of HQPlayer's workload. 

 

I would double check at this point that the chassis and the CPU heat-sinking is correctly fitted, no excess thermal paste etc.  That would certainly not help the situation.

 

Do you have the case in an space with plenty of open air?  Airflow becomes critical in fanless designs, especially when running a constant high load.

[sandyk]

Allan

 What you need to do here is just run the DAC as before for the length of a normal listening session, and check the temperature of the SSD. Running it continuously overnight under those stressful conditions would not give a case without a fan sufficient time to recover, compared with normal usage.

Does your server have plenty of air flow around it ?

 You may be able to use large rubber  feet such as used as door stoppers to increase it's height above the floor ?

Do you have an internal photo of the server?

Kind Regards

Alex

[tailspn]

Which Streacom Case? I run their FC-8 with a I7-5775C 65W processor on a Asus Z971 MB with three Samsung 250GB SSD drives. I found I must have a 4" low speed fan tight against the heatsink fins blowing on the heatsink as well as underneath the case. It's raised 1" by a U shaped hard foam ring capturing the fan air trapped underneath to force air into the bottom vent holes. The alternative is to run with the cover removed. This is my portable computer running Pyramix for on-location recording. I'm very happy with it, but the uncooled memory cards throw off a lot of heat compared to the cooled CPU.

 

Tom

[Dr Tone]

NVMe drives are tight to the motherboard, the motherboard is going to get hot and heat up that drive especially if you don't have good cooling.

 

You could switch to a regular SATA SSD that is away from the motherboard, it will run cooler.

[GUTB]

I have a giant NoFan passive heatsink in a regular ATX case and it never gets that hot...unless I push the CPU (also an i7-7700k) then it goes into a thermal state (throttling) pretty quickly.

[Allan F]

5 hours ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

35% with Roon upsampling is likely to be 70% (significant load) due to the computational nature of HQPlayer's workload. 

 

I would double check at this point that the chassis and the CPU heat-sinking is correctly fitted, no excess thermal paste etc.  That would certainly not help the situation.

 

Do you have the case in an space with plenty of open air?  Airflow becomes critical in fanless designs, especially when running a constant high load.

 

Perhaps I didn't express it clearly. The 35% CPU utilization was with both HQP and Roon running.

The server is on a shelf of an open rack with a LPS closely beside it. It has approx 4" of free space above and the heat sink faces an open side of the rack. The 59C idling temperature was observed with the server removed from the rack and open to air on all sides and the top.

[Allan F]

5 hours ago, tailspn said:

Which Streacom Case? I run their FC-8 with a I7-5775C 65W processor on a Asus Z971 MB with three Samsung 250GB SSD drives. I found I must have a 4" low speed fan tight against the heatsink fins blowing on the heatsink as well as underneath the case. It's raised 1" by a U shaped hard foam ring capturing the fan air trapped underneath to force air into the bottom vent holes. The alternative is to run with the cover removed. This is my portable computer running Pyramix for on-location recording. I'm very happy with it, but the uncooled memory cards throw off a lot of heat compared to the cooled CPU.

 

Tom

 

Thanks, Tom.

 

The case is a Streacom FC8α. The case is raised about 1" above the shelf with the case's feet sitting on Herbie's tenderfeet. Instead of the tenderfeet, I suppose I could have the metal bottom of the case sitting directly on aluminum or brass cones to draw away some heat.

 

Is the low speed fan that you are using audible? BTW, what fan are you using?

 

[tailspn]

The point that Dr Tone raised is the most important, the nesting of the M.2  drive (tight against the bottom of the MB in the case of the Asus Z971+ MB) in an area of poor air circulation. His suggestion of using a SATA SSD on the plate supplied above the MB is probably the most efficient solution.

 

I use a AC Infinity 4.7" fan which is silent at the lowest speed setting.:

 

https://www.acinfinity.com/component-usb-fans/multifan-s7-p-quiet-ac-powered-cooling-fan-dual-120mm/#product-description

 

I made a U shaped collar 1" tall by 1" wide from hard foam outside of the feet area trapping the airflow from the bottom of the fan laying against the heatsink side (into the mouth of th U . The air is forced up through the row of holes in the case bottom opposite the heatsink end, and blows almost directly onto the M.2 drive area.

 

My two additional SATA SSD Samsung drives mounted on the top mounting plate also become quite warm without the forced air circulation, but remain cool enough with the external fan. 

 

This FC-8a case is terrific for my use, but is a blivet if you're familiar with the term.

[Allan F]

49 minutes ago, tailspn said:

The point that Dr Tone raised is the most important, the nesting of the M.2  drive (tight against the bottom of the MB in the case of the Asus Z971+ MB) in an area of poor air circulation. His suggestion of using a SATA SSD on the plate supplied above the MB is probably the most efficient solution.

 

I use a AC Infinity 4.7" fan which is silent at the lowest speed setting.:

 

https://www.acinfinity.com/component-usb-fans/multifan-s7-p-quiet-ac-powered-cooling-fan-dual-120mm/#product-description

 

I made a U shaped collar 1" tall by 1" wide from hard foam outside of the feet area trapping the airflow from the bottom of the fan laying against the heatsink side (into the mouth of th U . The air is forced up through the row of holes in the case bottom opposite the heatsink end, and blows almost directly onto the M.2 drive area.

 

My two additional SATA SSD Samsung drives mounted on the top mounting plate also become quite warm without the forced air circulation, but remain cool enough with the external fan. 

 

This FC-8a case is terrific for my use, but is a blivet if you're familiar with the term.

 

tailspn and Dr. Tone:

 

Many thanks for the suggestions. Would a Samsung 2.5" 850 Evo or 850 Pro SSD do the job?

 

I'm not sure that I know what "blivet" means, but I believe it is akin to the the phrase PITA.

[Dr Tone]

6 hours ago, Allan F said:

Many thanks for the suggestions. Would a Samsung 2.5" 850 Evo or 850 Pro SSD do the job?

 

EVO would be sufficient for Roon but the faster PRO runs cooler which is important in your case.

 

Your CPU temp isn't an issue it's the motherboard and the rest that is getting too hot.  It would still be wise to get some air flow on it for stability and lifespan.

[Solstice380]

8 hours ago, Allan F said:

Would a Samsung 2.5" 850 Evo or 850 Pro SSD do the job?

 

I've been very happy with two 850 Pro SSDs that I use.  Almost 3 years now with the first one.

[Allan F]

Dr. Tone and Solstice380:

 

Thanks for your comments regarding the Samsung 850 Pro SSD. That would be the route to take.

[Ron Scubadiver]

Upsampling to DSD 512 takes a lot of compute power and makes a lot of heat.  It's going to be difficult to get rid of that heat in a case relying solely on convection for air circulation.  

[Allan F]

2 hours ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

Upsampling to DSD 512 takes a lot of compute power and makes a lot of heat.  It's going to be difficult to get rid of that heat in a case relying solely on convection for air circulation.  

 

Heat due to the heavy compute load has not been the source of the problem, with CPU temperature in the 52-54C range.

[Ron Scubadiver]

2 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

Heat due to the heavy compute load has not been the source of the problem, with CPU temperature in the 52-54C range.

It's the heat from a heavy compute load.  CPU temp may be OK, but that load is heating up the motherboard too.  The problem is novel.  Switching the SSD to something getting more air flow sounds reasonable.

[Allan F]

On 12/25/2017 at 3:00 PM, Ron Scubadiver said:

It's the heat from a heavy compute load.  CPU temp may be OK, but that load is heating up the motherboard too.  The problem is novel.  Switching the SSD to something getting more air flow sounds reasonable.

 

The consensus appears to be that replacing the M.2 drive on the mobo with a previous generation SSD at the top of the case is the way to go. The mobo may be contributing to the the heat of the M.2 drive, but the drives themselves are known to be prone to overheating. From what I have been able to discern, it does not take them long to throttle under stress.

[Ron Scubadiver]

Yeah, switching SSD's sounds like the first thing to try.  It's a high quality problem.  My Grace M9xx will accept DSD 256, but my N3700 powered NUC only has the juice for DSD 64 and the results did not impress.  Up-sampling PCM works nicely however.

[Allan F]

How important a factor is the speed of the hard drive when upsampling to DSD512 with HQPlayer and Roon? Is there any reason why a Samsung 850 Pro SSD couldn't handle it?

[Miska]

I have the Streacom FC10 with their ZeroFlex passive cooled PSU. CPU is i5-7600T on ASUS Prime Z270. M.2 SSD is Intel 600p-series. So far has been doing fine driving the Holo Spring DAC at DSD512.

 

 

For the next Coffee Lake based project I was planning to try out the Streacom DB4 case. Not so nice for a rack though, but makes it easier to house PCIe card.

 

[Allan F]

23 hours ago, Miska said:

I have the Streacom FC10 with their ZeroFlex passive cooled PSU. CPU is i5-7600T on ASUS Prime Z270. M.2 SSD is Intel 600p-series. So far has been doing fine driving the Holo Spring DAC at DSD512.

 

For the next Coffee Lake based project I was planning to try out the Streacom DB4 case. Not so nice for a rack though, but makes it easier to house PCIe card.

 

 

Is the M.2 drive in the FC10 case mounted on the mobo or on a PCIe adapter card?

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Allan F said:

Is the M.2 drive in the FC10 case mounted on the mobo or on a PCIe adapter card?

 

On the motherboard. If you look at the picture, it is mounted between the two 16x PCIe slots next to the RTC battery. There's another Intel Optane compatible M.2 slot between the right 16x PCIe slot and the CPU. Nothing there yet.

 

If one would want to have both OS and content on M.2, I would put OS drive on the Optane slot and media content one on the slot where the OS drive is in my picture.

 

[guiltyboxswapper]

On 28/12/2017 at 6:10 PM, Miska said:

I have the Streacom FC10 with their ZeroFlex passive cooled PSU. CPU is i5-7600T on ASUS Prime Z270. M.2 SSD is Intel 600p-series. So far has been doing fine driving the Holo Spring DAC at DSD512.

 

 

For the next Coffee Lake based project I was planning to try out the Streacom DB4 case. Not so nice for a rack though, but makes it easier to house PCIe card.

 

 

Is this running HQPlayer/Embedded or the NAA?  If not NAA, which filters can you run at 512 rates in this setup, such as poly-sinc-short-mp, poly-sinc-xtr-2s ?  

 

Any reason you wouldn't consider an angle adapter in this chassis for PCI cards - space?

[Miska]

2 hours ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Is this running HQPlayer/Embedded or the NAA?  If not NAA, which filters can you run at 512 rates in this setup, such as poly-sinc-short-mp, poly-sinc-xtr-2s ?  

 

Any reason you wouldn't consider an angle adapter in this chassis for PCI cards - space?

 

HQPlayer Embedded, with -2s filters.

 

I will add riser for 1x PCIe later for input purposes.