qobuz Qobuz USA launching soon!

[left channel]

On 1/8/2018 at 4:48 PM, GromitInWA said:

According to the article that @left channel linked to, they will be at CES. I'm headed there tomorrow and will try to seek them out if I have time.

 

Gromit did you find time to visit their booth?

[GromitInWA]

I did. I got a their press kit on USB. Will upload it when I get back (on another trip). They had a 6-month free trial but unfortunately the link on the USB key no longer works. However, this implies that they will launch in 6 months time

[GromitInWA]

Attached are the PDFs from their press kit. You'll see that the subscription tiers are:

Premium

• $9.99/month or $99.99/year
• MP3 320kbps compressed lossy

Hi-Fi

• $19.99/month or $199.99/year
• 16-bit 44.1kHz CD quality lossless

Sublime

• $219.99/year (no monthly option)
• 16-bit 44.1kHz CD quality lossless
• Hi-res 24-bit downloads at MP3 prices

Sublime+

• $349.99/year ("coming soon monthly subscription")
• Hi-res 24-bit FLAC up to 192kHz
• Hi-res 24-bit downloads at MP3 prices
• Up to 60% permanent reduction on a large part of the direct download catalogue (presumably because it is FLAC)

 

Introducing Qobuz.pdf

Q&A Qobuz.pdf

[rickca]

Wow, OK at those prices Qobuz can't get to the USA fast enough.  I'm currently paying those rates in euros.

[Charente]

2 minutes ago, rickca said:

Wow, OK at those prices Qobuz can't get to the USA fast enough.  I'm currently paying those rates in euros.

 

Exactly ! This is a deal. So, how does this compare to Tidal in the US ?

[rickca]

5 minutes ago, Charente said:

Exactly ! This is a deal.

This is funny.  Now Europeans are going to try to sign up in the USA to save money.  Qobuz will have to do something to prevent that.  Except for the MQA and rap aficiandos, I think many people will switch from TIDAL to Qobuz.  I did that a couple of years ago and have never looked back.

 

If you like jazz and classical, I find Qobuz superior.

[Charente]

16 minutes ago, rickca said:

This is funny.  Now Europeans are going to try to sign up in the USA to save money.  Qobuz will have to do something to prevent that.  Except for the MQA and rap aficiandos, I think many people will switch from TIDAL to Qobuz.  I did that a couple of years ago and have never looked back.

 

If you like jazz and classical, I find Qobuz superior.

 

I wonder if the catalogue will be the same as Europe ... we get some great European Jazz artists here that I didn't see so much on Tidal before I switched. 

[GromitInWA]

6 minutes ago, Charente said:

 

I wonder if the catalogue will be the same as Europe ... we get some great European Jazz artists here that I didn't see so much on Tidal before I switched. 

If music licensing works the same way as movie/tv licensing, it will be a different catalog.

[#Yoda#]

29 minutes ago, GromitInWA said:

Attached are the PDFs from their press kit. You'll see that the subscription tiers are:

Premium

• $9.99/month or $99.99/year
• MP3 320kbps compressed lossy

Hi-Fi

• $19.99/month or $199.99/year
• 16-bit 44.1kHz CD quality lossless

Sublime

• $219.99/year (no monthly option)
• 16-bit 44.1kHz CD quality lossless
• Hi-res 24-bit downloads at MP3 prices

Sublime+

• $349.99/year ("coming soon monthly subscription")
• Hi-res 24-bit FLAC up to 192kHz
• Hi-res 24-bit downloads at MP3 prices
• Up to 60% permanent reduction on a large part of the direct download catalogue (presumably because it is FLAC)

 

Introducing Qobuz.pdf

Q&A Qobuz.pdf

 

Nice outlook, I'm Sublime subscriber as well, but is there anyone out there who can tell me how this price policy will fit into a sustainable business model? To subsidize the numbers of streaming subscribers with dumping prices on HiRes downloads is very disputable.

 

You shouldn't forget that Qobuz had been bankrupt two years ago, not at least because of using this business model in Europe. Of course they have a new owner, but I couldn't find any numbers about its financial power.

 

The other concern about Qobuz HiRes streaming is the not existing quality control for incoming HiRes files from the labels. The very most of my upsampled HiRes files I've downloaded from Qobuz. I can analyze my downloads and claim a compensation what is usually no problem, but I don't know a tool, beside my hearing, to analyze the quality of a HiRes stream. 

[left channel]

@#Yoda# agreed about quality control issues, in downloads at all the download services. Also there's at least some watermarked streaming at all the non-MQA streaming services. (MQA being a whole 'nother upsetting topic.) But overall I've found the Qobuz experience refreshing.

 

Re the bankruptcy correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that happen because of the Tidal-like low prices, while the new Sublime/Sublime+ tiers are probably what is giving Qobuz positive cash-flow now? 

[#Yoda#]

8 minutes ago, left channel said:

Re the bankruptcy correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that happen because of the Tidal-like low prices, while the new Sublime/Sublime+ tiers are probably what is giving Qobuz positive cash-flow now? 

The financial situation of Qobuz had been strained for several years, but when they introduced their streaming service Sublime, I think it was in 2015, with all the discounts on HiRes downloads, the financial status turns even worse as far as I know and let to the bankruptcy, maybe together with other management failures.

 

Regarding my own consumer behavior, Qobuz Sublime is ideal. I use audio streaming services to evaluate music and buy/download what I like and don't really need the expensive HiRes streaming Sublime +. To get this albums, if available in HiRes and discounted up to 50 %, is great. Within a view months I've redeemed my annual subscription with the savings from the downloads and I'm not the only one. For sure, I'm not the only customer with this manner. The Qobuz Sublime price is comparable with the TIDAL HiFi fee, TIDAL isn't selling the albums far below cost price, has a multiple of subscribers and is still  loss-making like nearly all others in the business. It is very positive thinking to expect that Qobuz will have a positive cash-flow now, IMHO.

 

Anyway, I hope for my friends in the US that Qobuz will be available there, soon. Competition is always good for the market and the customers. 

 

 

[left channel]

@#Yoda# thanks. The current pricing and planning, which includes the 2016 introduction of hi-res streaming and the 2017 launch of the Sublime+ tier, may be helping. I don't see how the CEO can claim they'll be profitable in just a couple years if it wasn't... but then again, their financials are not public. Oh well.

 

Glad you're getting your money's worth out of the subscription. The profitability model for subscription services like this assumes that over the long term most users will not consume the full value of their monthly subscription. You are on the "long tail" in that model, someone who gets way more out of it than he pays for, but that should be more than subsidized by the majority, as they live well within the bell curve. Or at least that's the plan.

[bobbmd]

I and probably many many others in North America both USA and Canada have had Qobuz HiFi for years-me since I think 2013

Anyone have any idea what we should do about this wonderful turn of events?

I don't really want to draw any attention to myself-I rather like my US address of NEW FRANCE and I love their desktop app and I don't want to lose all the playlists i have made or screw up Audirvana+3

Also I do pay in EUROS it would be a considerable savings to pay in US$

[Bob Stern]

US customers would be prudent to wait to see what labels are excluded from the US market.  The lower price may reflect a smaller selection of labels.

[rickca]

9 minutes ago, Bob Stern said:

US customers would be prudent to wait to see what labels are excluded from the US market.  The lower price may reflect a smaller selection of labels.

That's entirely possible.  It might also be a really smart way to quickly steal a lot of TIDAL customers.  You can always increase prices a year later if you have a satisfied customer base.  Netflix does it regularly.  If current exchange rate trends continue, $20 USD is going to be way below the price in Europe and the UK.

 

It's interesting that Qobuz is leaving itself some wiggle room on MQA in it's Q&A.  They're not saying it will never happen.  They are also leaving the door open a crack with Roon.  If MQA starts to fade out, Qobuz can come in and sweep up the pieces of TIDAL.  

[Bob Stern]

26 minutes ago, rickca said:

They are also leaving the door open a crack with Roon.

 

The problem between Qobuz and Roon is that the Qobuz license of its API to 3rd party developers requires the developers to adhere to a GUI format that's inconsistent with Roon's distinctive GUI.  Qobuz requires licensees to "consider Qobuz integration as a « stand-alone experience » within their apps."  Qobuz has a list of metadata whose display is mandatory (plus some that are optional), and even specifies the order in which search terms appear in a list.

 

See the document under the heading "Apps & UX Guidelines":

https://github.com/Qobuz/api-documentation

 

[rickca]

6 hours ago, Bob Stern said:

 

The problem between Qobuz and Roon is that the Qobuz license of its API to 3rd party developers requires the developers to adhere to a GUI format that's inconsistent with Roon's distinctive GUI.  Qobuz requires licensees to "consider Qobuz integration as a « stand-alone experience » within their apps."  Qobuz has a list of metadata whose display is mandatory (plus some that are optional), and even specifies the order in which search terms appear in a list.

 

See the document under the heading "Apps & UX Guidelines":

https://github.com/Qobuz/api-documentation

 

I'm aware of this issue.  I'm just referring to the statement in the Qobuz Q&A that says

Our implementation on Roon has not been decided yet. This option may be considered upon our arrival in the US.

So maybe Qobuz is considering being more flexible in the interest of Roon integration.

[FIndingit]

Are there differences in the catalogue within Europe?

[bobbmd]

@FIndingit I am not sure but I have been using Qobuz since 2013/2014 from the USA and have 2 desktop apps the original blue circle with a'Q' inside and a blue rounded rectangle with a 'Q' inside and for some reason they seem 'different' in what they offer-same goes for what comes up on the A+3 Qobuz 'discover' tab there is a sort of different layout ie genres ie most streamed press releases editors choices ect- but hands down Qobuz offers more than TIDAL,the pages/album covers are more beautiful/enticing(especially the French/European artists I have never heard of-I even listen (to Classical) and the astounding number of classical artists lured just by the album covers!)

So maybe the catalogue differs somewhat as my address is in France and my USA address is 'New France'(people are probably sick of this but I always found this to be pretty cheeky of them since that is what the Northeast would have been called if the French had won on the Plains of Abraham in 1759) but it is far more diverse than TIDAL and the SQ is superb alone or on A+3 with a wide range of formats to stream with ie core audio etc at on the original desktop app

Even tho Qobuz is coming here I am going to keep my European address and pay double(in Euros as i do now) for fear the offerings here  maybe different and I might lose all the playlists i have made( for example I found an obscure belgium sort of very dark punkish group called Won-Ton-Ton and their lead singer Bea Van Der Maat and a number of other artists not found on TIDAL Pandora or Spotify)

bobbmd

[FIndingit]

Knowing for sure if differences exist is difficult, Qobuz is probably not keen to give out such information. And the catalogue changes constantly, even separate songs in albums disappear now and then and suddenly a hires album may be Redbook etc.

 

Talking about streaming only.

[#Yoda#]

I don't know, how if there are differences in the streaming services.

 

For sure there are sometimes differences in the catalog of the download store for the European markets in selection and price. You can check this by using http://www.findhdmusic.com and follow the country specific Qobuz links for the quested album.

[gdpr]

8 hours ago, bobbmd said:

 

Even tho Qobuz is coming here I am going to keep my European address and pay double(in Euros as i do now) for fear the offerings here  maybe different and I might lose all the playlists i have made( for example I found an obscure belgium sort of very dark punkish group called Won-Ton-Ton and their lead singer Bea Van Der Maat and a number of other artists not found on TIDAL Pandora or Spotify)

bobbmd

 

This is quite interesting/disturbing.  I am living in Belgium, I have a 'download' account at Qobuz - no streaming.

In the download section, no Won-Ton-Ton is too be found. 

So I feel rather uncomfortable to become aware that there are such differences between the services and localisations (altough I can partly understand that the appetite for French or German music would be rather small in e.g. the US) 

Although Qobuz is by far having the best 'download catalog at this moment, there is definitely no garantuee that they will be able/willing  to keep it up with the streaming catalog.  And Qobuz still depends on the music labels!!

 

Really uncertain times  for the music industry going forward

 

Dirk

[bobbmd]

@ddetaey and i don't 'download' anything- have to say the only Won Ton Ton album Qobuz has is 'Oh-No' not the CD I have which is 'Home' but has most of same songs and I really like the variety Qobuz has love it

[GromitInWA]

I expect that any catalogue differences are due to licensing rights.

[steveoat]

I think the country of origin will be the biggest determinant of content.

 

However, I have both deezer hifi and tidal, and tidal has none of the new chandos classical releases, while deezer has almost all of them.