Jump to content
IGNORED

The ultimate cables can/can't - only $80,000


sdolezalek
 Share

Recommended Posts

When I saw this product (the Music Interface Technologies ACC 268 Articulation Control Console -- one gushing review here: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/music-interface-technologies-acc-268-articulation-control-console-and-ma-x-shd-interconnects/), I couldn't help but think it was the perfect product for a discussion here.  As OP,  I'd like to limit this discussion to points of view about why what MIT is doing might legitimately produce "positive" audio quality effects and how that might broaden our overall views on whether cables do or don't make a difference.  

 

So please no comments like: the ultimate snake oil, no device like this could ever make a difference, etc. (I'll ask Chris to remove those if they flood this thread).

 

But I would appreciate comments like: Yes, it can affect sound, but only in the same way as an equalizer because...., or "Yes, it can, but what it is really doing is ... or No, it can't and here is why...

 

In others words, no plain opinions, only views based upon some level of expertise that include an explantion of "why"

 

MIT_ACC_268_Articulation_Control_Console

Synology NAS>i7-6700/32GB/NVIDIA QUADRO P4000 Win10>Qobuz+Tidal>Roon>HQPlayer>DSD512> Fiber Switch>Ultrarendu (NAA)>SMSL M500 DAC> Bryston SP3 pre>Levinson No. 432 amps>Magnepan (MG20.1x2, CCR and MMC2x6)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, GUTB said:

It appears to be a very high-quality crossover network designed around some proprietary formulas. 

Since it only has one cable entering the box and the picture shows but one cable leaving it, it can hardly be termed a "crossover" since it crosses over nothing. At the very least, all it can be is a very limited "tone control" which can be more effectively (and cheaply) implemented by an active equalizer between the pre-amp and power amp!

George

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a ridiculous way to apply a little EQ.  It is disgusting they have sold more than 50 of these and have a backlog of orders.  You can go find where Bruce tells you how to make your own articulated cables.  Parallel capacitance and inductance.  The effect is to very slightly alter some speakers and how they interact with amps.  Same result could be done in DSP EQ and it would sound the same.  

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

what MIT MIGHT BE doing that might legitimately produce "positive" audio quality effects MIGHT be altering the complex impedance of the cable/box system

 

 

Yes, I suspect that's correct. But then the question becomes, "to what end?" You have an amp supplying an audio signal at a sufficient current/voltage to allow the speakers to make sound, and you have a pair of speakers that respond to the amplifier's signal by making sound, and you have a hank of wire that connects the speakers to the amp. A hank of wire doesn't have a complex impedance characteristic (not at audio frequencies, anyway). It has a certain DC resistance that increases with length (and which can change the sound of SOME - but not all, highly reactive speakers) and it has a certain (tiny amount) of inductive and capacitive reactance that also increases with length. But these latter two characteristics are so small that your speaker cable length would have to be more than 50 ft (with 14 gauge wire) in order for these characteristics to attenuate a 20 KHz sine wave by even ONE dB! So, any complex impedance in the cable/box system would have to be self induced by the box itself! IOW, without the box in the cable, there would be no complex impedance for the controls to alter!

George

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

A hank of wire doesn't have a complex impedance characteristic (not at audio frequencies, anyway). It has a certain DC resistance that increases with length (and which can change the sound of SOME - but not all, highly reactive speakers) and it has a certain (tiny amount) of inductive and capacitive reactance that also increases with length. But these latter two characteristics are so small that your speaker cable length would have to be more than 50 ft (with 14 gauge wire) in order for these characteristics to attenuate a 20 KHz sine wave by even ONE dB! So, any complex impedance in the cable/box system would have to be self induced by the box itself! IOW, without the box in the cable, there would be no complex impedance for the controls to alter!

Thanks George!

Synology NAS>i7-6700/32GB/NVIDIA QUADRO P4000 Win10>Qobuz+Tidal>Roon>HQPlayer>DSD512> Fiber Switch>Ultrarendu (NAA)>SMSL M500 DAC> Bryston SP3 pre>Levinson No. 432 amps>Magnepan (MG20.1x2, CCR and MMC2x6)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mav52 said:

What an expensive tone or DSP control

From the mfg website "

Discreet articulation control is now possible over
three sections of the bandwidth, allowing the listener
to adjust for challenging room conditions, equipment
changes

 

What, then, pray tell, does Bruce Brisson (of MIT) THINK that a line-level equalizer is for if not to allow the listener "to adjust for challenging room conditions (and/or) equipment changes"? Certainly there are enough equalizers on the market to do that very thing for a tiny fraction of the cost of this $80,000 "cable solution".

 

How about:

 

http://www.musictri.be/Categories/Behringer/Signal-Processors/Equalizers/DEQ2496/p/P0146

 

 for $300

 

or, perhaps:

 

http://www.musictri.be/Categories/Behringer/Signal-Processors/Equalizers/FBQ6200HD/p/P0B3T

 

for $200

 

There are more, from both Behringer and other manufacturers. Given what MIT says this obscenely expensive "speaker cable" actually does, I don't get it!!

 

 

George

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, sdolezalek said:

I suspected that might be the case, but if so, it appears to be an extraordinarily expensive one and my sense is those here willing to use their computers as a front end can do better (at a tiny fraction of the cost) with products like REW, DIRAC, combined with Roon, HQPlayer, JRiver etc. that apply equalization but based upon measurements rather than "fine-tuning to taste."  Am I missing anything else here?

I don't think so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, esldude said:

It is a ridiculous way to apply a little EQ.  It is disgusting they have sold more than 50 of these and have a backlog of orders.  You can go find where Bruce tells you how to make your own articulated cables.  Parallel capacitance and inductance.  The effect is to very slightly alter some speakers and how they interact with amps.  Same result could be done in DSP EQ and it would sound the same.  

 

It might even sound better. The MIT box(es) contain relatively large capacitors and inductors which would certainly "ring" more than the smaller values used in line-level equalizers, or the complete lack of ringing in properly designed DSP-based eq devices. Of course any device added to the audio signal chain will involve a certain loss of SQ, and a DSP-based solution would, of course, add the quality issues associated with A-to-D and D-to-A conversion. The bottom line here would be is the insertion loss is of a magnitude to actually have an actual audible effect on SQ.  

George

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share



×
×
  • Create New...