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New second generation Dirac Live


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  • 5 months later...
21 hours ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

I feel your pain in PC Dirac not having specific features you would like.  But, you are myopically only considering your own personal needs and desires, not those of others.  Those ideas are just not necessary or of interest to me and many others.  You are a rarity, a fringe user in having 4 subs, but what about a guy with 6, 8, etc.?  How many users even have 2 subs?  So, calling these "basic" is disingenuous, to put it mildly.

 

What about the added development and support cost involved in adding your feature set which would be borne through higher pricing affecting all new users, no matter how many subs they have?  That is not free.  Somebody has to pay for it.  You might be happy, but what about everybody else?  Do you want to see Dirac start charging forced annual maintenance fees to support your new features, when overwhelmingly most users just have no use for them?  I don't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm also a PC user with only one Sub and the lack of Bass Management feature is making Dirac cumbersome to the point of ridicule and daily pain for anyone wanting to integrate a subwoofer. 

 

Perhaps you would consider listening to your own judgment when calling someone "myopic" and "not considering needs of others". 

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21 hours ago, michael123 said:

If you want features, buy Emotiva or DataSAT

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if I'm interpreting the essence of "computeraudiophile" wrongly or why other ppl here just forget about the "computer" stuff and so quick to bash computer guys?

 

Why would you want a computer audiophile evangelist to buy a high-end & locked down receiver for all those features we already get (mostly better) in flexible software? 

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On 6/24/2018 at 7:52 PM, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

I did my homework and I was aware of that when I bought it. But, I had no trouble whatsoever setting up or using Dirac with bass management in JRiver.

 

Same here, then I wanted to use Roon :P

 

I am very much aware that BM is coming (?? ) and that it is even stated to be "better" (look up @flak's posts) although apparently not in the coming version. I'm waiting.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

BM in ROON is even easier than in JRiver.

 

Hi Kal :)

 

Are you referring to this - https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-dirac-integration-again/20433/57?u=ron_kuper ? 

 

If so then: 

1. I wouldn't call it easier

2. It doesn't allow to treat surround/stereo content differently, as required for correctness 

3. AFAIK it is not Linkwitz–Riley based, which I assume supposed to sound better to most

 

Not quite satisfactory IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 6/26/2018 at 11:57 PM, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

What is not correct about 2.1 playback using bass management in exactly the same way with identical parameters as in 5/7.1?  

Summing formulas and LFE handling is different between 2.1 and 5.1... Read about it. 

 

As Kal stated he is using it for 5.1 only and still need to manually enable/disable it when moving between content types. 

 

Guys - I'm not complaining, just want to voice where stuff could be improved for us by the lovely software vendors of our field. Better sound and better user experience. 

 

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On 6/28/2018 at 4:28 PM, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Ron - I have read about it.  All I see is that 2.1 is a perfect subset of the more general 5.1, and of course there is no LFE in the 2.0 input to transfer to 2.1.  

 

There is no complex "summing formula" in bass management, except that the LFE input level is adjusted prior to summing, which does not affect 2.1 playback at all.  All other channels are merely a simple sum in the .1 channel of signal below their respective xover frequencies, nothing complicated. If a channel is not present in the input signal, it is not part of the resulting sum automatically, since its contribution to the sum is zero.  So, 2.1 works just as well as 5.1 with the same bass management setup. 

 

Have you perhaps overthought this?

1

 

Perhaps.

 

Read this thread discussing internal deliberations of JRiver's Bass Management and tell me what you think - 

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=58646.0

 

In any case this was only one out of three points I've made regarding the lack of proper BM features for Roon. 

 

And all in all it didn't stop me from using it and doing a screenshots guide for others in the community. 

No doubt there is room for improvement and I'm happy to voice my opinions and be active in this hobby of ours :)

 

 

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23 hours ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

I regularly follow JR Forum and I have seen no complaints about bass management for years

 

Apparently, we are not on the same page.

Where did I mention a problem/complaint about JR? 

I referenced that thread as an example to the dilemmas proper BM implementation.

 

To get back to the topic I'll state my point again: 

For me and others who use a subwoofer for stereo music - implementing Bass Management in Dirac would greatly simplify the audio chain and prevent user mistakes (like doing BM at the receiver's end AFTER the correction).

With BM in Dirac - suddenly everything just works across the board, regardless of the music player used. 

Without BM in Dirac - We must rely on the player's ability to do BM and configure it manually for each player.

 

 

Ron

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Ron - by golly, you are right.  I thought it had been announced with 2.0.  But, this quoted press release says they are only considering BM for future release:

 

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/dirac-research-officially-launches-major-update-at-ces-2018.2128/

 

Sorry for my false and misleading impressions.  But, there is still other stuff in 2.0 that may be worthwhile.

  

Meanwhile, JRiver BM still works fine for me.  I understand why you want it in Dirac, however.

 

 

 

Looks like we've even exchanged some posts over there back then:

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/dirac-research-officially-launches-major-update-at-ces-2018.2128/#post-19447

 

:P

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/12/2018 at 10:54 PM, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

That is very useful information, thanks.  Unfortunately, most of my listening is in Mch. So, I will have to wait for an 8 channel Beta release.  No doubt, most other users are satisfied with stereo only, though.  Good luck, and best wishes.  I will remain interested and hang around.

 

Same here...

(For 2.1 though not full MCH but still need Dirac MCH in order to correct the Sub channel)

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47 minutes ago, flak said:

Hi ronkuper,

 

the multichannel version  is not necessary for stereo playback,

the stereo version will adjust gain and delay of those frequencies that are reproduced by the subwofer if it's connected in a stereo set-up and measured as such.

 

I thought these are per channel, not frequency (as represented in the GUI). 

 

1. Is it different than the current version?

2. Are all corrections per frequency (vs. Channel)? 

3. So now is it considered correct to use the downstream receiver for bass management (i.e. after dirac)? 

 

Excited ?

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