Article: Audiolense Digital Loudspeaker and Room Correction Software Walkthrough

[dallasjustice]

Awesome job Mitch!

 

WRT using a pair of time aligned subs in AL:

 

You can individually time align each sub in AL. You can also use them as either mono or stereo subs. However, AL cannot measure a pair of mono subs at the same time. The only situation this sort of measurement would be needed is when the subs are used on opposing walls in opposite electrical polarity and time aligned for axial mode cancellation. I’ve talked to Bernt about measuring subs at the same time and it doesn’t appear that he wants to include this feature in 5.0. It’s the only thing holding me back from getting it. 

 

In your room, you probably would not need/want to set up your subs in this way. 

 

Ive been using the flat to 1khz filter now for two years and haven’t wanted to change it. It’s very versatile for all types of music, especially electronic bass heavy music. 

 

I do love how easy AL is for transferring filters to Jriver. 

[dallasjustice]

11 hours ago, Bob Stern said:

@DallasJustice:  I see you're active in both the Acourate and AudioLense listservs.  How would you respond to my questions above?

I think it's a tough call between the two.  I haven't upgraded to AL 5.0, so Mitch may be in a better position than me to answer questions about sound quality differences.  My best guess is that they are very similar.  For now, I prefer to use Acourate due to the flexibility it offers and some of the other tools which can be helpful for better speaker positioning.  For example, the IACC tool can be used to optimize speaker position if you mostly care about higher frequencies.  This works for me since I can totally control the low frequencies with two subs and a little EQ.  

 

I really like how easy AL is to use and to experiment with. I don't remember ever needing any help from Bernt. It's very simple to use.  OTOH, Acourate can get a little complicated.  But if you are just using Acourate with two channel passive speakers, its also very easy to use.  I'd give the nod to Acourate just because its a little more flexible.  But you can try both of them out your self.  I forgot how Bernt does his trial, but you should be able to get some sort of trial first.  I know Uli offer a trial well.  

 

Comparing the older version of AL to Acourate, I would say the sound quality is very similar.  I'd be skeptical of anyone who claims one sounds significantly "better" than the other.  The differences are more to do with usability and flexibility.  

 

I think Uli and Bernt are both great guys with awesome products.  I think you will get your money's worth either way you go.  OTOH, you could dump a bunch of money in a new DAC just because it does MQA.  Maybe you could buy some bitcoin and then sell it in a day or so.  You'd prolly have enough money to buy both.  

[dallasjustice]

On 12/7/2017 at 12:13 PM, mitchco said:

Michael, good to hear from you and understood. Your use case is very specific and may have arrived at the best result. However, Audiolense does account for low frequency room reflections, it may be that you would get similar results with a traditional subwoofer setup. My subs have arrived and I will be able to confirm that sometime soon.

Mitch,

The delay values are automatically generated by AL5?  Is this a new AL feature? I don’t remember the old AL showing the delays calculated. Is it possible to manually adjust the delays?  Do the delay values correspond to the delays you may have already manually calculated using Acourate?  I’m just curious to know how accurate you think the delay values are. 

Thanks again,

Michael. 

[dallasjustice]

30 minutes ago, cjf said:

Hello OP and thanks for this excellent article.

 

A few questions for OP or anyone who knows the answers. I appologize in advance for these most likely stupid questions but I'm just starting to dip my toes into the waters of thought around using DSP and subs:

 

1. Is it possible, and just as importantly, has anyone successfully been able to use the "corrected" configuration file/files exported from Audiolense with ROON's DSP feature? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

 

2. How important of a role does having the Lynx Hilo play in this picture besides the hardware piece to feed the Amps a signal? By this I mean, could someone just as easily use "insertotherdachere" in combination with necessary Windows PC that runs the Audiolense software to generate the corrected files to be used with, perhaps, ROON or JRiver?

 

3. Is the reason for Lynx Hilo or maybe even Merging HAPI to allow for an accurate means of room/system measurement because they have proper ASIO drivers to feed into the AD section of these devices? Could one still use a DAC and Analog PRE of their choosing once the corrected file was built via Audiolense or is Lynx needed going forward?

 

4. Lastly, is the ultimate goal of Audiolense just to provide a means of measuring and creating a corrected fir file to then be fed into whatever DSP device/software one chooses to use?

WRT Roon’s convolver and Audiolense filters, my experience is that Roon’s convolver does not work properly. I started a thread on Roon forum about the problems. Roon hasn’t fixed the issue I’ve experienced but acknowledged they’ve reproduced it using my Audiolense filters. Of course, I’m super disappointed Roon’s convolver does work right. But I am hopeful they will fix it. 

 

IMO, Jriver’s convolver is great because you can just drop the file in the Jriver convolver and you are set. There’s no need for zip files or relative file paths, etc. I can also trust Jriver because Jriver has an ASIO line in. The first thing I do after I create the filters is to send a sweep out REW into Jriver’s convolver and record the result in REW. This can be done well with a Hilo because it’s driver is multi client (handles two apps at once). OTOH, the Hapi uses Ravenna ASIO. It is explicitly not multi client. So it cannot work off two apps at once. There is a (maybe) work around using the steinberg multi client server app. I’ve used it with a prism Titan and it works. When I had the Hapi, I didn’t get that far. I sent the Hapi back. Things may be better now with the Hapi. I know of some reports on Acourate forum where users have used Hapi for recording log sweeps. So maybe it would work. 

 

Personally, I own a NADAC, Prism Titan and Lynx Hilo. Overall, the Hilo is the most versatile of the bunch. I’m in midst of resetting things up and I may just stick with the Hilo from now on. It’s just so much simpler and more flexible. I think the Hilo sounds killer too. 

 

Michael. 

[dallasjustice]

13 minutes ago, cjf said:

Thank you Michael, very useful info.

 

I''ll most likely pickup a Lynx in the next week and see what options it opens up for me depending on answers to below follow-up Q's:

 

1. Can the Lynx be used in direct to Amp via balanced XLR & also to a powered Sub at the same time?

2. Is USB Input the way to go or DANTE for Lynx?

3. Are you able to use the Lynx as a MIC Input for measurement purposes?

 

Thanks again for the info

I just returned my LT-Dante card. Dante/Audinate is truly a joke. I’d stick with USB. 

 

I have four channel setup; stereo setup with a pair of cascaded mono subs. I document the setup in the link below. It’s the best step response I’ve ever been able to achieve; never heard before bass!

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/cascaded-multi-driver-subwoofers.1341/

[dallasjustice]

12 minutes ago, cjf said:

OK good to know about Dante..Ill do as you suggest and stick with USB

 

I think I may have answered my own question about Amp/Sub connections.. I guess there is nothing stopping me from still using my Analog PRE amp after the Lynx by running it in "direct/vol bypass" mode, assuming it has that.

 

Thanks the link, Ill give it a read

I prefer digital volume control. I could never find a decent multi channel pre amp and I’m happy with digital volume control. Do you have a multi channel analog preamp?

[dallasjustice]

6 minutes ago, number8 said:

 

 

I would be interested if you could elaborate on that. Is it a matter of price or SQ?

thanks

The LT-Dante does not auto switch sample rate. IOW, the user must manually change the sample rate before switching to a new sample rate. I also couldn’t connect Dante ASIO  to Jriver ASIO line in while also connected to Jriver ASIO output. So maybe it’s not really multi-client or maybe the ASIO isn’t really Steinberg compliant. 

 

IME, the best USB implementations are far superior to the best AES67 in terms of flexibility. 

 

They sound the same. 

[dallasjustice]

8 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

I’m trying to find that thread. Link please ?

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/audiolense-convolution-filters-in-roon/35603

 

Roon acknowledged the issue but I haven’t heard anything from them in weeks. I don’t think it’s fixed. I’d try Roon convolver is you already have it. Maybe it will work. But for the routing setup I use, Roon’s convolver is broken. 

 

You coukd also use HQplayer’s convolver with Roon. I know HQP convolver works. I prefer to use Jriver tho. 

[dallasjustice]

6 hours ago, nefilim said:

interesting thanks @mitchco do you know if you could use a digital out concurrently with the analogue outputs? I'm interested in the hilo, to use its internal DAC for line out to my subs and use digital output to my existing DAC to drive my mains.

time alignment could be interesting ?

ps. working my way through your eBook,

really great and looking forward to the second version!

I need 8 channels in my setup. So I use 6 Hilo analog out plus Hilo AES to Benchmark DAC3. It’s works perfectly. There’s no problem with synchronization.

 

I tried other DACs like the MOLA MOLA and it didn’t work.  The MOLA has a goofy jitter attenuation scheme that results in variable propagation delay. As long as you pick a well engineered AES/spdif DAC which exhibits consistent propagation delay, you are good to use an external DAC with the Hilo for digital crossovers. 

[dallasjustice]

19 minutes ago, nefilim said:

 

Thanks Dallas, curious, which channels are you connecting to the Benchmark ?

I use the JBL M2 speaker. The Benchmark DAC3 channels go to the horns. The M2 horns are crossed over at 800hz and play beyond 20khz.