sbenyo Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 I am building a computer for HQPlayer and I wonder which is the best CPU (up to now) I should use. The options I look at are either intel 7th generation (6700k, 7700k), 8th generation (8700k) or 9th generation (x series). Is there a significant difference that makes any of them the best choice? I do want to maximize performance of up sampling to DSD512 with best modes (XTR) possible. It should be noted a good GPU will be in use as well (either GTX 1070 or 1080). BTW, if AMD has any competitive CPU that matches or even performs better it can be an option. I currently plan to go with 8700k but I am not sure if this is the right choice. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted December 2, 2017 Author Share Posted December 2, 2017 Thanks for the advice. I do see some forums mentioning that they could get XTR to work on 1700x or 1800x and not on 7700k but it's not definite. I still want to see if anyone tried the new 8700k and if it can play XTR flawlessly. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted December 2, 2017 Author Share Posted December 2, 2017 I found this thread with more information: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-holo-audio-cyan-dac-amp-pcm-or-dsd-module.861507/page-3 It seems the L3 cache and # of cores are important. It seems there is a proof that 1950x works even without CUDA offload and 6950x works with CUDA. It also says that the cheaper 1920x may work but there is no proof for it. Did anyone manage to do DSD512 XTR (the non 2s) on a 1920x without stuttering? Link to comment
sbenyo Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Thanks for the information Miska. From what I can see the 1800x is similar to 1700x so I don't think it's good enough. I still want to see if anyone can check the 1920x as it is probably the best cost/effective option if it works. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 I finally managed to build a PC for DSD512. I am using AMD Threadripper 1920x and now I can easily play DSD512 with poly-sync-xtr-mp-2s filter!! I don't even use CUDA offload and cpu utilization is not exceeding 15%! My whole build costs less than $2000... Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 The build I have is dead silent. You don't know the computer is on. It's a combination of the case (Fractal Design R5 blackout) + Cooler (Noctua NH U14S). My GPU (Gigabyte 1060) is also dead silent even in most demanding games. It seems HQPlayer does not even start challenging this setup even at its max configuration Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Update: I was mistaken between -2s and non -2s. Non -2s is the better mode. Without -2s the load is much higher. I can play DSD512 (48x512) only if auto rate family is set. Some files do play without it but some get to100% CPU and stuck. When it is set everything works properly and CPU level is ~30% I also noticed that both using multicore and Cuda offload should not be fully set. They should be both grayed. With these settings everything works great! Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 For some reason when I fully check the CUDA offload, I get 100% CPU and it hangs. It only works for me with grayed CUDA or none at all. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 My settings are as below. I am running directly from desktop. The files are on local fast ssd disk. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 What is the issue with 1060? It does have CUDA support. In any case it works for the same for me with grayed or disabled so I don't really need the this option. Link to comment
Popular Post sbenyo Posted February 7, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2018 This was my first build so it does take a bit more time to understand everything and have the confidence doing it. After I did it, I can say it is not complex at all. Components comments/tips: 1. If you don't need it for gaming you can put a very cheap GPU. I can play DSD512 without using CUDA at all. 2. You can definitely don't have to use a lot of memory. Saying that I would not go with only 8GB (I do think it will work). Try to have 16GB. You can always start with 8GB and if things don't work buy more. Please note you need them in pairs so plan carefully. If you are not gaming you will probably don't need overclocking so you can also settle with cheap memory that does not need high speeds. You should be aware that Threadripper is built for quad memory channels so it's best to have 4 dimms but it's definitely not a must. I also recommended using memory approved by your motherboard vendor. Memory can be tricky and do all sorts of problems if not selected properly. 3. If you don't plan gaming in the future as well you can also compromise on the power supply and have one of 500W-650W. The lower watts are cheaper. You should of course get a modular PSU (attach cables only as needed) to make the build simpler and cleaner. 4. I do recommend using SSD. I am converting my music files from network drive to my local SSD and from there I play them. You can definitely settle with cheaper SSD like 850 evo or something similar. Please note that the x399 motherboards do support m.2 ssd options but if you are not planning to do gaming or large file manipulations you don't really need it. 5. You can try to find the cheapest x399 motherboard. The more expensive ones are for overclocking or gaming and you don't really need it. 6. I use a Noctua NH U14S cooler. It is cheap and does the job perfectly. It's a bit bulky but very good and very quiet. 7. Case - cases are not expensive. I have Fractal Design R5 blackout + window. It is deadly silent which is very important to me. I am very pleased with it. Any mid-ATX case is good. Make sure it has enough space to accommodate the CPU cooler you choose. Noctua cooler does need the space. Build tips: 1. Attaching the CPU is the only risky part. It goes on top of ~4000 very small pins. To avoid issues, you should just read the instructions and watch videos of how to do it before. It has to be done exactly as described. 2. Learn all connections on the PSU and motherboard according to the manuals. Know exactly which ones you need to attach and how before you start. Attaching all cables to the motherboard takes a bit of a time but if you learn it properly you should be fine. 3. If you do use the Noctua cooler, just follow the instructions exactly or watch video how to do it. There is nothing difficult about it. 4. Install the PSU before you install the motherboard in the case. Learn what cables are needed and attach only those. 5. When you install the motherboard in the case follow the exact instructions. Don't forget to put the motherboard connections cover at the back of the motherboard. 6. I had many cables, and screws left. Don't worry about it. Use only what you need. I guess there are many spares. 6. I used this video as reference to my build. It is similar case, same motherboard and CPU. It does not show all but it is helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83mA2TGNRCU 7. Allocate 2-3 hours for it after reading the instructions. It should take much less but be on the safe side. If I had to build it again today, it would probably take me 30-45 mins from start to end. All in all I think it's a fun and rewarding project. Once you hit the power button and see the system load you will feel very good. Once you see HQPlayer play DSD512 with the xtr filters you will be thrilled. Here is a link to my build list in pcpartpicker: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/zfxG3C I think it is a good site to see other people's builds and learn from them. semente, Mr Wensleydale, Narcissus and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, MirinStereo said: This is all about XTR filters with DSD512. We still need to see a Xeon build handle it before we can say it's the cheapest option that works. Until now there are only the new higher end CPUs with have large L3 cache that are proven to do it. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, MirinStereo said: If anyone is interested, my Xeon E3 1231v3 does DSD to DSD Oversampling of DSD64 and above to DSD512 with poly-sinc-xtr (non -2s) no problem. Sounds very interesting. Did you try up-sampling from regular PCM (CD quality) to DSD512? It will be good to see what parameters are used. Are you using CUDA offload? family rate? If everything works it's definitely a winner in terms of cost but it may not be everyone's choice or liking in case the build is also used for other purpose. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 1920x does DSD512 without CUDA and without overclocking. See the parameters I am using. Currently CUDA is grayed but it can also be off with exact same results. MirinStereo 1 Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 I see poly-sinc-ext filter. Did you try poly-sinc-xtr or poly-sinc-xtr-mp? Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 Sorry, I am not expert on that. I only know that ext is recommended for PCM and xtr more for DSD (or both). Maybe someone can better clarify. For me the xtr work best converting both to DSD512 or 384 PCM. I'll try ext today as I know it is good with PCM. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 It seems you had a bad experience. I am sure that for most people that build a new system it is not as hard as you describe. First of all I guess that someone that decides to build his own system should be familiar with what he is doing and going into. if not, you should definitely learn it first and not go into it without the right knowledge. So it is definitely not for everyone. I do think that for people that understand what this takes even for a first build it's not complex. It is actually easier that it used to be as things become more clean and standard. There is always the feeling of fear when doing it first time because you are afraid to break something. Understanding ahead of time that this works and chances to fail are low if you prepare yourself and follow the rules is important. It may not be described as walk in the park but it is also not too complex. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 I wonder what is the CPU utilization and temperature people see when using XTR filters and DSD512. Mine is avg. of 30% total CPU utilization (all cores) and temp can be 60c-70c (Using Core Temp utility). Link to comment
sbenyo Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 14 hours ago, Miska said: After about hour of playing, the temps settled just below 40C because fan kicked in and the speed settled to match the heat production. But still the machine was really quiet without any clear fan noise. This with room temperature of 21C. At summer when inside temps are higher, the CPU will of course run hotter too. One critical thing to observe is type and amount of thermal paste between CPU and the cooler. The layer should be as thin as possible while covering exactly all the available area possible. Miska, that is quite low for the load. What is your temp at idle time? Link to comment
sbenyo Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 hours ago, n2it said: I thought that @sbenyo had the Noctua U14S TR4-SP3 (sbenyo is that right?) - if so, it should provide enough cooling (I have one for my 1950x - you can also add on another fan for the other side of it) - wondering if maybe the fan control isn't turning on until 60 deg - so might be something to tweak a little (at least understand the trade-off with the noise). Also reading reviews of the Fractal Design R5 say it doesn't have the best airflow - might be worth some extra case fans (and replace the stock ones with quieter ones) and tweaking of the fan controls there. (As Quadman suggested - a water cooler never hurts and has the best bang for the buck in terms of cooling per noise level) I do have Noctua U14S. I got it after reading many good reviews. I agree it should be fine. I also added 3 additioanl Noctua NF-A14 case fans in addition to the two on the R5 case (top, bottom and front). All fans are PWM and work in smart mode. This means they are not running full power (1500RPM) but usually between 300-800. At this rate they cannot be heard. This did not affect the CPU temp (maybe very slightly). I also used the default smart configuration for the CPU fan. This was probably not optimal. I changed it for testing to always run at full speed (1500). It did improve the CPU temp I think by 3-5 degrees which I think is significant. The idle temp is ~30. It should be noted that at 1500RPM the fan is not completely silent but it is not heard if music is playing so it should still be good. With full fan speed and additional case fans (all smart mode) I get temps between ~52-62 avg about 55. It can also peak to above 62 but not too much. I also want to add that I see these temperatures only with HQP. If I run benchmark using CPU-Z which stresses the CPU I don't get close. It stay ~40-50. I think it's still a bit high. It would be great to see comparisions with other Threadripper users (either 1950x or 1920x) using HQP with same Noctua cooler or anything else. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 As far as I know the 7700K cannot do XTR but only XTR -2s. If this is the test for CPU usage and temperature it is not the same as doing XTR which is much more CPU intensive. Just to compare, I will try the Prime 95 CPU test to see what results I get. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 Thanks. I hope someone will come with additional Threadripper temperature results for HQPlayer. I actually did a few more stress tests even loading CPU to 100% for sometime. It still looks like HQP is winning in raising the temperature. Everything else I tried did not get as high as HQP. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Solstice380 said: Here is a Ryzen 1950x Noctua cooler comparison with some good load and temp data. http://www.legitreviews.com/air-versus-water-cooling-amd-ryzen-threadripper-noctua-coolers_198402 Thanks for the link. I actually saw it and repeated the exact same test. It's downsizing a 4K 60fps video to 1080p 30fps. This works for about 10 mins loading CPU to almost 100% My CPU starts at idle time with a bit higher temp. They show 28c and I see 30-35c. As for temperature on load, I was close to what they show but not as high. It was most of the time between 50-55 with peaks to around 60c. Surprisingly this loads CPU to 100% and it has less effect on temperature than HQPlayer loading CPU only to 30%-40%. I am still not sure what HQP is doing to Threadripper CPU that cause the temperature to be ~55c with frequent peaks above 60c. I am also not sure if this is a problem with my cooling solution or not. If I compare it to the link above, it seems Threadripper gets hot but it's probably OK. I still need to see other HQPlayer comparisions or more details on expected temperatures to be sure if my cooling solution is good enough or not. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 I am not sure how I can control the CPU frequency. As far as I know I use it on default set frequency (3.5GHz). Checking it using HWInfo may show I might be wrong. It does seems frequency is changing and even reaching ~4.0GHz. This may explain what I see. I will have to further check it to see if this is true and if I can control it. If this is the cause for the higher temps and if this can be resolved it will be great! Link to comment
sbenyo Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 I looked into the MSI x399 BIOS settings and found that OC is disabled and can be only set physically on the MB. I checked deeper and found there is an advanced setting "Core Performance Boost" set to auto. I disabled it. Now CPU frequency does not exceed 3.5GHz and temperature sits nicely at ~45c! ' I am also happy with it as CPU fans don't have to get to full speed which keeps everything dead silent. I am very pleased now. I thought the CPU is getting too hot. It turns out it overclocked itself as high as 4.0GHz. CPU is now working a bit harder moving from 30% to 70% and sometimes even to 90%+ but everything still works perfectly so I don't need to Core Boost for DSD512 XTR. Before CPU would not get higher than 30%. Quadman - Thanks for giving me the right hint where to look for. I am still surprised BIOS default setting is set like this even though OC is disabled. I will also run the video stress test again to see how CPU and heat performs now. Link to comment
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