Best CPU for hqplayer

[Quadman]

On 3/2/2018 at 5:45 AM, sbenyo said:

I wonder what is the CPU utilization and temperature people see when using XTR filters and DSD512.

Your cooler is not adequate enough to cool the 1920x at 30+% utilization and the rated 180TDP.  I, like Jussi, feel that AMD does generate more heat per TDP than intel processors do.  Just look at Jussi's numbers above he has more CPU utilization and much cooler temps.  There is no reason your CPU max should be much above 50C with the proper cooler.  Try a 240mm water cooler, your case easily handles it, the fans are pretty quiet and can be swapped for even more quiet models if needed.  Just make sure that it is sTR4 socket compatible.

 

I have built over 8 audio only based PC's, I learn something every time and each build is better than the last.  Started with 4790 and worked my way up intel  to 7th generation (7700K) and then jumped to AMD with 1700x and now 1800x for my personal machine.  None of these machines can do non-2s XTR filters in HQP at 44.1 to 22M6 or 48K to 24M6 (autorate family checked).  Even 1700x and 7700K have issues with closed form and minringFir, with no cuda offload.  With Cuda the above can do all HQP filters except the non-2S xtr's.  My 1800x clocked at a modest 3.8GHz used to be able to do all HQP filters with no cuda except the non-2s XTR's, then I added Audiophile optimizer and now I need cuda offload to do closed form, minringFir and even 48K based material up to 512x48.  For some reason it appears that AO lowered my CPU's performance a bit.  With cuda I am fine, except non-2s XTR.

 

Comforting to know that the 1920x can handle DSD512 all filters with no cuda offload.  My next build will probably be that or the 1950x.  I think the L3 cache is very important and AMD wins that battle hands down, dollar for dollar.

[Quadman]

7 hours ago, sbenyo said:

With full fan speed and additional case fans (all smart mode) I get temps between ~52-62 avg about 55.

Yes I now see the U14s can go up to 180TDP,  my thoughts are at high TDP like the threadripper series air cooling generally does not cut it.  The 7700K build I did was in a very similar case to yours a corsair Quiet 400Q, I also had to pull the stack of drive bays to fit a water cooler in the front of the PC.  I used a 240mm corsair unit.  I did not use any top mount fans but had 1 rear exhaust fan.  Initial firing up showed this PC to be very loud.  Going into bios and tweaking the fan settings (easier to do on intel than AMD) greatly reduced the noise of this unit to a whisper.  After, Idle temps of the 7700k were 20-21C and at full DSD512 with HQP running the max temp was low 40C with the ave being high 30's.  Prime 95, a brutal CPU torture test, revealed that the max temps for 1 hour run where low 50's.  Sitting next to the PC you could hear it, at the listening position about 12 feet away, it was silent.  For your rig and the temps your seeing CPU fan has to be at full speed (which you seem to have discovered), the others you can play with or else go to water if you can live without the drivebay stack.  I like my CPU temps to be below 50 if at all possible with HQP at 512.

[Quadman]

4 minutes ago, sbenyo said:

As far as I know the 7700K cannot do XTR

Correct as I stated in my first post but the poly-sinc non-2s filters run the CPU in the upper 20% range and prime 95 pegs it at 100% for the full hour that I set.  I use prime 95 for initial set up knowing that the CPU will never get pushed as hard as it does there (except for the initial filter building stage, which usually runs no longer than 1 minute) and if the temps I see are good after fan tweaking and I am satisfied with the noise levels, then I remove prime 95 from the PC.  Stability is very important as I have had some intel CPU's crash (blue screen) during the filter building stages, upping the core voltage usually solves this but then you dance with correct voltage vs. heat.

[Quadman]

2 hours ago, sbenyo said:

It still looks like HQP is winning in raising the temperature.

That shouldn't be.  Stress tests, especially, peg your CPU at 100% for almost the entire test.  100% CPU utilization creates more heat than 30-40% utilization with HQP XTR filters.  Unless you use a GPU and set CUDA offload (checked) and the GPU creates so much heat that it raises the ambient temperature inside you case so much that the CPU runs much hotter.  But I think you said you have to grey the cuda box which means cuda is then only used for convolution and I don't think you do that so heat from GPU probably not an issue.  What does task manager show for GPU utilization while you play music?  If you do use CUDA offload then you need a GPU fan control program like MSI afterburner to control the GPU fan to keep GPU cooler.

 

37 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

got experience with deliding which could be useful

I have read up on deliding but have never had the courage to go forward with it in fear that I might trash the CPU and at $350-$800 for these things is a bit much for my risk tolerance.  I agree that it could have a very positive effect on CPU temps tho.  Meantime I make sure to use excellent thermal paste, as thin a layer as possible and good CPU coolers to keep temps down.  I never use the stock thermal paste that comes with most coolers, even Noctura which is pretty good.  They just apply it way to thick to do justice.

[Quadman]

44 minutes ago, sbenyo said:

I am still not sure what HQP is doing to Threadripper CPU that cause the temperature to be ~55c with frequent peaks above 60c.

Impressive results from the Noctura coolers.  Do you keep your CPU at a set frequency?  or do you allow it to adjust as the load requires?  If the latter that is why your temps with HQP may be higher than under 100% load.  HQP is running higher frequencies and higher voltages than the CPU does under 100% load as the review above showed.  As long as you can keep peak temps below 68 you should be okay.

 

I use an HTPC case for my 1800x so I need a lower profile cooler and the case does not accommodate water cooling so I have been running a noctura NH-9DL cooler and it does a fantastic job of keeping my CPU cool.  I also set my frequency multiplier at 3.8GHz and core voltage at 1.32v.  Noctura makes good stuff.

 

 

[Quadman]

1 hour ago, sbenyo said:

I checked deeper and found there is an advanced setting "Core Performance Boost" set to auto. I disabled it.

 

I see Jussi answered the core boost question.  Since I run the 1800x I have not researched the bios settings for the threadrippers as I currently do not a build planned using it.  But in my bios in the MIT section under Advanced frequency settings I manually enter a setting for CPU Clock control and I set mine at 100.1, and then under CPU clock ratio I set mine to 38 as I wanted to OC my stock 3.6GHz to 3.8GHz.  With the 100.1 clock setting and 38 ratio I get a speed just a hair over 3.8 GHz.  If I leave the clock at stock 100 then I get slightly under 3.8 and I hate that so thats why I slightly adjust the clock.  Your MB bios may be similar or different.

 

Since your CPU utilization took a big jump up and it is possible now you may get some stuttering, so I would manually adjust your clock to 100.1 and the clock ratio to say 37, just a small OC.  You may also need to up CPU core voltage a bit with this move (or leave on auto, but overvolting (heat) more likely), a hundredth of a volt can make a big difference.  Then run HQP and see what the utilization looks like, the goal being to get it closer to maybe 50% and also keeping heat lower than before.  That is that dance I mentioned earlier about stability and heat.  Check some forums about overclocking the 1920x to see if it is similar to what I describe above.

[Quadman]

If your DDR4 supports 3200 then that is what I would run it at.  In Bios it looks like you have a XMP switch on the main screen, turn it on and that should jump your RAM speed up to its rated spec (you may need to reboot to see it). If that doesn't work it looks like you can also adjust XMP in the OC settings in bios.   I have 3000 Mhz in my 1800 and use XMP to get it to 2966.

[Quadman]

This thread started as "Best CPU for HQPlayer" well that is a very broad question.  It maybe should have been worded "Best CPU for HQPlayer with DSD512 up sampling".  Are you determined to make a server that can play every HQP filter because you believe the non-2S sound significantly better, well then you need to step up to the AMD threadripper line beginning with the 1920x or even 1950x, then on the intel side Jussi has used the 6950x to accomplish this and some of the other high end intels may as well tho I have not read confirmations on them.  Regardless even with the cheaper 1920x a full build and optimized server your looking at around $1800 minimum before software costs, not cheap.

 

If you just want to listen to HQP with DSD512 up sampling and are satisfied with the 2s filters then you can get by with a much more modest rig.  My experience is that the 2s and non-2s are not that much different sonically and you need a pretty revealing system to even discern the differences.  Because I can I do use the non-2s filters most of the time but switching back to the 2s version does not leave me yearning to switch back ASAP.  I have built 8 audio only PC's in the last 3 years starting with intel i7-4790 CPU thru AMD's Ryzen 1800x CPU.  All these processors can handle DSD512 with the 2s filters in HQP,  obviously the 1800x can do most of the non-2s filters as well but it certainly cannot do all the non-2s filters.  My experience has lead me to look for certain things in a dedicated music server.  Lately I am a big believer in more L3 cache as being beneficial for music playback and overall sound quality and that is the main reason I jumped from intel to the AMD line.  I have also found newer processors or one older generation are generally the best buys,  going back 2-4 generations the prices actually begin to rise.  My experience is with Intel's i3-i7 lines and AMD Ryzen line so I am not qualified to comment on other intel or AMD processor lines.

 

My recommendation for best bang for the buck processors would be as follows.  (All should be able to handle DSD512 up sampling with HQP 2-s filter family)

 

AMD Ryzen 5-1600x  retails for around $200.  It has 6 cores and 12 threads and a base speed of 3.6Ghz out of the box, and more importantly a whopping 16MB L3 cache and a 95W TDP rating.  Runner up Ryzen 5 1500x about $25 cheaper, same # cores and threads and L3 cache but drops base speed to 3.5 Ghz (still good) and lowers TDP to 65W, meaning it may work in fanless cases with careful cooling setup.

 

Fot intel I recommend the new i5-8600K processor it retails around $240, has 6 cores and 6 threads with a base speed of 3.6Ghz and 9MB of L3 cache with a 95W TDP rating.  The i5-7600k is so closely priced to the 8600k that I would not get it as its L3 cache is down to 6MB, but does offer higher base speeds of 3.8Ghz, core count drops to 4 as does threads.

 

One disadvantage of the AMD CPU line is no built in internal graphics, you need a GPU to get video. An inexpensive video card can accomplish this just fine.  Intel comes with internal graphics so no external GPU is needed.  I value L3 cache so much that this did not sway me from AMD.

 

There is a lot more to a music server than just the CPU but this thread focuses on CPU's.  Just my 2 cents on the subject.

[Quadman]

16 minutes ago, Sevenfeet said:

The FlightSim rig cannot upsample PCM to DSD512 on the hardest filters (like poly-sync-xtr)

Back on page 2 of this thread Miska posts a screen shot of his 6950x rig running DSD512 with the poly-sinc-xtr filter and CPU utilization is around upper 30%.  My guess is you have cuda offload check marked in HQP settings, Uncheck it or grey box it and you should be able to do DSD512 on XTR filter.  The GPU is not fast enough to handle this task and is most likely causing the stuttering at 512 with full XTR.

 

1 hour ago, sbenyo said:

I decided to invest in it both for audio and for other uses so the system is not idle when I am not listening to music. I think that if there are other uses t can justify the investment.

 

 Do you use a dual boot system with your PC?  When I build audio PC's, I run some of the scripts found on this forum and use Audiophile optimizer to reduce windows processes, essentially making the PC audio only.  The SQ jump you can get doing this will blow away XTR vs XTR 2s sound comparisons.  Look into dual boot so you can still use PC for non-audio and then use other boot, tweaked to reduce windows process for music only.  You will be very happy with that decision.

[Quadman]

6 minutes ago, shadowlight said:

For the initial build you can leverage usb serial cable and terminal program.

Is the average person really going to do that?  It's only a disadvantage if you get the CPU and expect graphics out of the box like intel.

[Quadman]

13 minutes ago, sbenyo said:

I am not using dual boot for now. It sounds like a good option.

Currently I do not use dual boot for audio PC as I only use it 100% for audio.  If I did I would actually use 2 small SLC SSD's (32 or 64GB) with windows OS on each (then externally power each SSD with linear PSU's).  One for Normal use and one highly optimized for audio only, I would add easyBCD to the normal SSD which makes it super easy to dual boot.

 

I have run AF for many years currently running 8 pro, it is an excellent program and runs well with AO.  AO and AF together is another very nice step up in sound quality over just AF.  I just set up another SSD with a clone of my preAO SSD, it has AF on it and I want to compare the SQ differences between no AO vs with AO.  

 

If you run AO and set maximum optimizations then you will have to do dual boot if you plan on using PC for normal stuff.

[Quadman]

30 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

How come nobody seems interested in delid? Has anyone tried it?

If your temperatures of the CPU you use are fine under HQP 512 load and run at or below 50C (or so) then there is no reason to delid.  Delidding is primarily designed for extreme overclockers who want to push their CPU's to the highest limits possible.  Also AMD, at least for 7 and thread ripper, solders their heat spreader to the chip making delidding very risky.  Intel's CPU generally use thermal compound between silicon chip and heat spreader and are much easier to delid.  Here's a nice article on SAFE delidding (don't try with AMD).

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/meet-the-overclocker-who-made-delidding-your-cpu-idiot-proof/

[Quadman]

10 hours ago, salaryman said:

Oh, I just search and realize what EC stands for, coz I am still with HQP 3.x.

You can download and try HQP 4 for free but it only works for 30 minutes at time, but would give us a good idea if the 3700x can to the EC ASDM7EC modulators at DSD256.  Also HQP 4.x sounds better than 3.x.

 

My Ryzen 1800x OC'd to 4.0 GHz and with a Nvidia 1060 GPU for cuda off load can do some DSD256 filters but only with ASDM5EC modulators, it cannot do the 7EC modulators.  Do you overclock your 3700x?  I would guess not as you appear to want to use a fanless case.

[Quadman]

3 hours ago, Gato said:

For HQPlayer and from the SQ's point of view, what is most important?

 In my experience for a SQ standpoint only, more L3 cache sounds better than less and is the reason why I switched to AMD processors.  But if you want to run HQP 4 and its EC modulators then speed seems to be the ruling factor and the upcoming 9900KS would be the winner there.  I still think (or hope) a ryzen 3800x OC'd to 4.5 Ghz would be a reasonable solution to both.

[Quadman]

Is anybody running a ryzen 2700X and overclocking it to the max turbo of 4.3Ghz?  I run my 1800x at its max of 4.0Ghz and can do 256 w EC5 modulators, so wondering if a 4.3Ghz OC would get EC 7 modulators?

[Quadman]

4 minutes ago, teera_ash said:

I doubt that 2700X can do EC7, DSD256, with XTRs. 

I don't care about XTR non 2s with EC 7.  EXT2 would be fine.  2700X can OC to 4.3 same as your 3700x so it might be possible.  My reason is 2700x is cheap right now like <$160. so it may be a nice temporary move until late next year/early 21 before I jump to the next upcoming gen CPU's.  Then XTR at 512  (no EC) be doable and 256 w EC7 work as well.  I prefer AMD as L3 Cache is much larger than intel and I think affects SQ in a positive way.  I am not sold on 3900x yet, price mostly or the intel 9900 series.

 

[Quadman]

I'm anxious to see results with any servers built with 5800x or 5900x CPU's.  I just feel the extra cache on AMD CPU's sound better than intel.

 

[Quadman]

Curious why you spent extra on the 5950x as 5900 has higher all core turbo speed, and as Jussi said the gpu can compensate for missing cores.

[Quadman]

7 hours ago, Rune said:

With HQPlayer you do not need all core turbo speed. I choose the 5950X to get the absolutely best binned CPU and should reach the highest single core turbo

Curious to see your results.

[Quadman]

7 hours ago, Rune said:

Agree, I use a small AIO Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II 120 on a i9-9900KS and it very quiet.

Can't the 9900KS do all the 256 Ec filters and 512 non ec filters?

[Quadman]

50 minutes ago, Rune said:

i9-9900KS will not do DSD256EC -> Sinc-L only DSD128EC-> Sinc-L

A RTX 3060TI would  probably be fast enough for Sinc-L if it had 10GB but unfortunately it only have 8GB.

Thank you, Sinc L is a processing beast.

[Quadman]

31 minutes ago, luisma said:

Only 2 cores are used at 100% the other 4 are 50% or so and the threads show no utilization (which is kind of expected I guess)

Are you running a GPU for cuda offload as well, or just for graphics with no cuda offload?

[Quadman]

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

What in the hell kind of absolute nuttery is this!!!!!!!!  My CAPS is in my listening area, is liquid cooled, and I can't hear it at all. All I hear is music.

I agree my aircooled Ryzen 1800x with GPU and 5 case fans is in my room and 10 feet from my listening chair and no one hears it in my room.  I've measured 42 db 2 feet away from the case.  That will never disturb your listening.

[Quadman]

2 minutes ago, ted_b said:

HQPlayer machine/server that is Windows 10-based, are you using any Windows cleanup tools to reduce clutter and reduce non-audio processes?

Ted,  I have been using windows server 19 for 2 years with HQP 4.xx and Audiophile optimizer 3.0 and Fidelizer pro.  They work together nicely and I have no issues.  I also manually go into Task manager and manually shut down a few processes via services in TM.

[Quadman]

I just built my new server based on i7-10700K CPU and a lowly Nvidia GTX 1060 GPU with 3gb ram.  Windows 10 pro.  I came from a Ryzen 7 1800x machine.  This new intel CPU so far can handle any DSD256 with EC7 modulator that I have tried (except Sinc-L), Sinc-S worked, closed form 16M worked but I have not tried Polysinc XTR mp or LP.  Zero dropouts.  I am very impressed as I got the CPU from microcenter for $277.  I grabbed a 590 series MB so upgrade to 11th gen CPU would be easy if they prove worth the extra cost.