Best CPU for hqplayer

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4 hours ago, Miska said:

I just finished building upgraded Windows 10 music server for the listening room to replace aging i7-6950X.

 

New one is built into Fractal Design Define R6 case, with Seasonic Prime Titanium fanless PSU. Motherboard is Gigabyte Z490 VISION D that has DAC-UP2 USB ports. CPU is Intel Core i9 10900K and RAM is four modules of Kingston HyperX Fury DDR 3200 CL16. CPU cooler is Noctua NH-D15S.

 

On the mother BIOS, all fan speed profiles are set to "Silent". This provides very quiet operation with the Noctua's cooler.

 

And performance is also nice to the T+A DAC8 DSD:

 

I thought you would go with the i9-9900KS because of the multi-core turbo frequency. The 10900K appears to have a higher turbo boost frequency but it also appears to be limited to a single core. Also, with the 10900K do you still need a GPU? I don't see one listed.

 

Just curious.

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55 minutes ago, firedog said:

Well I just ordered this, which is about the fastest available to me locally with quiet case fans, quiet processor fan, quiet PSU, and sound proofing in the case. I don't have all the very latest components available, or at least not at anything approaching a reasonable price. Wanted an i9 10XXXK series, but couldn't get one. Decided to go for it anyway-the i7 10700k is about the same as the i9 9900K in performance, AFAIK. 

	·       Silent Base 601 midi case ·       - Asus PRIME B460M-A LGA1200 Micro-ATX Motherboard
	·       - 10th Gen Core i7 10700K 3.8GHz 8C/16T 125W 16MB Comet Lake CPU
	·       - Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 2666MHz Memory
	·       - Kotetsu Mark II TUF Gaming Alliance CPU Cooler
	·       - AS5 3.5g, High-Density Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Compound
	·       - Straight Power 11 CM 550W Modular PSU, BN281
	·       - Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB M.2 NVMe SSD (3500/3200)
	·       - Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD (3500/2300)
	·       - Seagate BarraCuda 8TB 3.5in Hard Disk Drive HDD
	·       - SupaGeek PCIe to 4x Type A and 1x Type C USB Card Windows 10 pro 64 bit

Supposedly I can overclock this to 5 or 5.1GHz. @miska or anyone else have a comment on doing that? Useful? Or bad idea?I've never done it before. This is going to be used for either Roon with DSP and RC or HQP to DSD 256 with DRC and a little other DSP.

Amusingly - and this had zero to do with me ordering it -  the MB marketing talks about what great audio it has, with analog isolated from digital, upgraded capacitors, etc. It will be interesting to see if the built in audio is better than any other PC or if it is just BS. 

ASUS MBs are pretty easy to overclock via the UEFI/BIOS; just be careful and only go one step at at time until all works. Don't push beyond that. With a K series chip you should be able to get into the 4 Ghz range with air cooling but 5 Ghz might be a stretch. You may still need a GPU if you want to use HQP at DSD 256 with EC modulators and the most demanding filters but if you stick to the 2s filters you should be OK without the GPU.

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9 hours ago, evalon said:

@Miska & others: This might already have been discussed here so please bear with me if I happen to repeat a question (also with reference to my previous question to Miska here: 

The question is if there is any consensus on which PC (processor (type & speed - Intel preferred), MB - chipset, RAM (GB & type/speed), HD - type, GPU (type/brand - is an integrated Intel OK?) is required to playback EC modulator DSD256 and "regular"  modulator DSD512?

 

From reading elsewhere in this forum it seems that PCM processing is not really an issue as even quite reasonably powered processors appear to be able to handle this (please correct me if I am mistaken here ... 😉) ...

 

Cheers & thanks for inputs,

 

Jesper 

The most important thing for DSD 256/ASDM7EC is that the CPU be able to hold or turbo at least two cores to clock speeds of well over 4 Ghz. If it can do this then DSD 512 non-EC modulation will be no problem. The latest 10th generation Intel i9 or even i5 are examples. The K series chips are the ones to get as they overclock and turbo to higher speeds. 

 

As to MB selection, I would stick with ASUS for the chip selected and make sure to activate the XMP profile 1 in BIOS so you get the full capability of the CPU and memory.

 

Any quality high speed RAM and solid state HD should be fine.

 

The GPU should be one of the 3000 series Nvidia CUDA capable cards.

 

Remember that heat will be the biggest hurdle so you will need active air or liquid cooling.

 

There are many, many posts on this so just search the forum.

 

Good luck. 

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2 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

/& with a 2-channel convolution requirement tossed in?

Should be the same.

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3 hours ago, Ipoci said:

 
Is it true for DSD64 to DSD256 too?

I mean, what's the minimum CPU suggested to run 256EC modulator with native DSD64 files?

I'm currently running ASDM7/DSD256 with my I5-8400 in a passively cooled chassis, so I'm trying to understand if I could run EC modulators without changing the whole chassis

I also have an i5 8400 in a Streamcom passive cooling case with an ASUS Z370I MB. I can run ASDM7EC/DSD256 as long as I stick to the 2s filters. However; I am only able to do this if the XMP profile1 is activated in BIOS and I can only use HQP 4.6 for it to work. Jussi made some changes in 4.7 and later versions that break it for my setup so I am staying with 4.6. It does work but CPU temps (using Speccy) are in the 60-70 C range and all cores are running hard. I also have Roon running on this machine. In the future I know that I will need a more powerful and probably liquid cooled machine but that is a battle for another day.

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25 minutes ago, evalon said:

Hi all ... Just did a search on "laptop" in this thread and it seems that it has not been discussed, so - as I would prefer to have one "integrated solution" - any of you have experience with using laptops for DSD upsampling to DSD256 with the EC modulators?

 

May it work - also without costing a fortune?

 

Hoping here - cheers,

 

Jesper 

You might find one that would work but it won't be cheap due to the need for a lot of processing power and it will generate a lot of heat so fans will run at high speed. Check out one of the Gaming laptops. Maybe someone here has found one that works.

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1 hour ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Submerged tech:

 

https://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

The high tech version of a lava light!

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12 hours ago, Capheden said:

Thank Miska! I am going to CPU i5 10400.

I have an i5 8400 and it works well. You may want to consider the K variant as it would give you more flexibility later.

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13 minutes ago, Mops911 said:

I am looking into a pure music server, no games and fanless (because I can ;-))

 

Is a GPU better at upsampling to 256 ASDM7EC than a CPU? (no room correction or convolution)?

 

Lets say for example we have a cooling capacity of 200W. Is it better to get a 200W CPU or a 100W CPU and 100w gpu?

 

Or the other way, is Cuda more efficient at pure upsampling that x86? (I hope that makes sense)

 

Thanks much

Tom

The GPU is really for offloading the filters. It is the CPU that does the modulation. If you want to keep it fan-less you will be limited to a 95 Watt TDP chip as the that is the most that the fan-less cases can handle.

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1 hour ago, Mops911 said:

If my google-foo (I use duckduck go ;-)) serves me right, the Turemetal UP10 could do more...

 

Like 95W for CPU plus 160W for GPU. Therefor I wonder if it makes sense to put a 130-165W cpu in such a case and make sure all 3 cooling elements are nicely connected to the cpu. Or to better do a cooler cpu plus a GPU?

 

Thanks

Tom

 

I have looked at that case in the past. I have my doubts about putting a 130-165 Watt CPU in any fan-less case. Under the heavy load of HQP running at DSD 256 it going to generate a LOT of heat. The real question is if you even need a GPU. If you only use the two stage filters (2s and ext2) when converting PCM to SDM using ASDM7EC at the 256 rate, you will certainly not need a GPU.  A 95W chip like a K series Intel will do it without a GPU. A GPU is only helpful if it is faster than the CPU and putting one those beasts in any fan-less case is going to be problematic. The other problem is getting any GPU right now. From what I have read recently, it is near impossible to find one without being ripped off. That may change later in the year as NVIDIA has said that they are going to introduce GPU units that will not work for the Bitcoin miners who are hogging all the GPU production.

 

Good luck with your build.

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2 hours ago, Zauurx said:

After some adjustments and improvement tests (latency), I made a mistake.
I reinstall an old backup, go back to the bios and .. go to to some music.
And...   😒 cannot play mqa 96 on my i5-8400 (Roon> HQP ASDM7EC DSD 256).
Cutouts every 5 seconds.

Normal: processor stuck at 3.7ghz ???
I'm looking, think, looking for an overclocking track for this (excellent) processor (6 cores - 2.8ghz. Turbo. 65w > fanless).
The theoretical max is 4ghz .. on one core ? all ? with turbo ...
I go back to the bios of my Gigabyte Z370N .. some tests .. 102.7, uncore to the max and ...
I'm happy .. no more dropouts !! Only music. 😋

 

102.9 is the max for the i5 8400. At 103 mine will not boot. At 102.9 I get a little over 3.9 on all cores with set to sync all cores.

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20 minutes ago, Mops911 said:

TDP and and max load of HQP?

 

Lets say, I am looking at a i9-11900KF with 125w TDP (and much more in real as I hear), how much of that "capacity" can HQPlayer max out. Or the other way, lets say we run a upsampling which totally saturates the CPU from an HQP perspective, how much headroom is actually left? Not all cores are saturated as I understand, so I guess even HQP under full load is not utilizing all 125w TDP. Does that make sense? Do I think completely wrong?

With this chip SDM modulation will push only a few cores to somewhat close to their max capacity. The remaining cores will vary a lot depending on filter selection with the 2s filters (including ext2) being the easiest and sinc L and a few others probably being beyond the capability of even this chip without help from a GPU.

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2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I will try to do some testing on that front too next week. At the moment I'm running my REW based room corrections using parametric EQ export as .txt file on M1 - without issues.

 

If you are going to do some testing; it would be great to have a list of exactly which filters work and which do not work on the M1 when doing both 44.1/48 material and hi-res material up-sampling with ASDM7EC/256. Specifically, I would like to know if it is possible to use the non-2s poly-sinc family and maybe some sinc and closed form filters. I have found that I prefer the non-2s versions of some filters. The difference is admittedly small but I do notice it and prefer the non-2s. I know that certain ones like sinc-L and closed-form16M are not likely to work but I think a lot of us would like to know which do and which do not work on the MAC Mini M1. I would like to replace my HQP machine but I will want to wait to the fall when the M1X chip version should be out if the list of what works is too limited right now.

 

Anything you do is appreciated.

 

Maybe a separate thread for this so others can find it and those with M1 machines can report their results?

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5 hours ago, ted_b said:

As some of you know, I am a longtime HQplayer user that took a couple years off while I moved the wife and I 1400 miles across the US to our new home in the Denver area (we love it).  As my very slow build of the lower level audio room continues I was able to start serious music listening once again, but this time via a one-person setup...my RAAL SR1a earspeakers (think Apogees hanging off your ears).  😎

 

My system is an older build: Roon runs on this Windows 7 desktop I'm typing on, and through a GS108 gigabit switch talks to my trusty i7-6700k Win 10 Audiophile Optimized headless HQPlayer machine; a beast in a Fractal Define R5 with Startech 4 port USB card (externally powered via Hynes lps), Optane OS, and a boatload of fans.  It sounds great through the RAALs, even though it is quite noisy (1 or 2 fans are on all the time)...I know very little about fan management so likely have one or two set wrong, but I don't care cuz I listen via the RAALs on my head.  However, this server will not cut it when, soon, I will need a quieter HQPlayer server for the main listening room on the lower level.

 

So...in the meantime I thought I would begin to dabble in improving this server, and using these experiences to start to visualize my new build for the main system.  So first thing I did was to focus on better power and went out and bought:

 

* HDPlex 400W DC/ATX converter

*HDplex 300W power supply

 

They arrived last week.  I am now realizing I am pretty ignorant when it comes to DIY.  For example, I wanted to use the two higher powered (19V/10A and 12V/10A) rails of the HDplex to power the DC-to-ATX converter (19V/10A) and the CPU (12V/10A) but fellow AS folks like the generous @StreamFidelitybelieves I won't have enough power, or it will get too hot and cause long term damage.  I have a Paul Hynes SR7EH single rail 12V-19V/6A that I could use for the CPU EPS, but worried the decent-but-not-huge amount of upsampling I do (PCM to 8fs using ext2 and LS15; DSD to 256 using ASDM7EC) will not allow me to do it with 6 amps.....and worried what will happen if I try.  Argh.  And I have no experience in figuring out how stressed my server is when upsampling.  I'm a fast learner, but an even faster forgetter.  🙂

 

I suppose I could also use the existing Seasonic 850W power supply to do one of these tasks (like CPU) but that seems like it might be a big step backward and a misuse of the new HDPlex stuff.  Additionally, I have no idea how to order (Ghent?) a cable capable of connecting either the HDPlex ps or the Hynes ps to the 8 pin cpu (orr should I just get a female dc to 8 pin cpu).  This sounds trivial but now that I'm f'ing around with power supplies I have become increasingly concerned.  Silly, right? 

 

These are all first world problems, I get it.  My server sounds great as is, and maybe I just ought to wait and, for the main room, build or buy a new HDplex 5-encased fanless server when the time comes, using more efficient modern cpus and motherboards, and use the HDPlex stuff on that.

 

Any opinions or ideas are welcome.  Thanks!

Hi Ted, I would not do a passive  cooled system again. They are limited by thermal throttling. The best cases are rated at 95W and the chips are 125W. I am going to wait for the M1X chip later this year. If you want an Intel system, I would wait for the 12th Gen chips later this year and water cool it or go with a better quieter fan system. The i9 12900K will likely not need a GPU for most HQP tasks. Avoid the noise issue by using a NAA and get isolation as well.

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5 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Bob,

Thanks for the reply.  I've done many NAAs in my HQP experiences, and will do another in the new room (at least one, the exaSound S88 includes an internal NAA so that will be my multichannel solution).  However, I have not found universal NAA success...some good, some not so good.  I also have a backup plan, as I've included a small cable run from my storage area behind the wall of my new audio room, so if my server is too noisy (acoustically speaking) I can put it back there...but would rather not.

 

Yes, I plan on taking advantage of the newer chips; until then I need to figure out this HDPlex power issue.  Thx...

You probably need the HD Plex 500W. It has all the direct ATX connections. The 300W is not enough. And yes they do run hotter than you would expect. My 300 is warm and the load on it is less than 75W. Running your rig would drive it very hard and it will be hot. I would see if Larry could help with a return and swap.

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17 minutes ago, ted_b said:

So no dc-ATX converter, just the direct ATX 500W power supply?  Is this a better solution than the 300W/dc-ATX converter combo for ATX and another psu for the cpu?

No ATX converter needed. Whether it is better than two units I don’t know. Be careful about the total load. I think some have used two because of overload concerns with one.

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15 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

Those tests were from pcm to dsf256. I have the mini in another room, but it’s quiet enough & only slightly warm. I can point a SPL meter at it ...

 

Note that I’m yet to try convolution, though It’ll be just 2-channel.

Thanks for all your testing. I have a Mac Mini M1 on order this AM!

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Thanks to all who reported their results with the M1 Mini. I received mine yesterday and after a day of playing with it, I am very happy with the results. I can do any streamed (Qobuz) resolution up-sampled to DSD256 using ASDM7EC and Sinc S (my favorite filter). For the price this machine just cannot be beat. One would spend at least three times as much for an Intel or AMD machine that could beat it. When the M1X arrives in the fall it will be interesting to see what it can do with HQP but if you need a machine for HQP now, this is certainly a very good option.

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2 hours ago, ted_b said:

Bob, what is your NAA, or are you getting 256 EC7 with Mac OS?

Hi Ted, I have the M1 running over the network to a Sonore opticalRendu with a Sonore FMC in-between. My DAC is a Holo Spring 2 KTE. Works flawlessly. I am using Roon on another machine to feed the M1. I would advise keeping Roon on a separate machine if possible.

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6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

No, because Apple is not releasing technical info about the M1 and thus I have some doubts on how good the Linux performance on it would be.

 

Jussi, Any chance you could harness the GPU cores of the M1?

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Just now, Miska said:

 

Not planned at the moment due to lack of suitable C++ API.

 

A future list item then. It is a shame to let all that capacity sit idle. Thanks, Bob

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39 minutes ago, Druid said:

Hi all, 

 

I am looking to set up a dedicated machine for HQPlayer. My goal is to initially be able to upsample redbook files to DSD256 with the EC modulators or DSD512 without the EC modulators, and use convolution for room correction (83k and 96k taps).

The machine does not need to be silent, and I don't care much about having fans blasting as it will be in a closet on another floor of the house feeding a NAA.

 

My 2 options would be to either get a base Mac mini M1, or to build a small PC around a i7-10700K (would require everything except SSD/HDD and peripherals, and I would wait before adding a dedicated video card).

Ultimately I would like to get to DSD512 with EC modulators when CPUs permit. So when the time comes I could either resell the M1 (as Macs seem to keep their prices quite well on the used market) and upgrade to whatever new Mac mini/iMac, or upgrade the barebones PC with a new CPU. 

 

Assuming that I would try and keep the PC build around the same price as the M1 (if it's even possible), which would you guys recommend? 

 

Thanks

I have the M1 Mini. It will cost you two to three times as the price of the M1 to build a Intel based machine and unless you add an expensive GPU you will not have any advantage over the M1. Get the 256/16 version and set the HQP buffer to 100 ms and you will be able to do DSD 256/ASDM7EC from any resolution base file using most filters.

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37 minutes ago, Mops911 said:

not at all, I've got a Dell for around $1700 when it was on sale in April with i9-10900k and even a low-end Quadro card with allows for some offloading.

 

 

$899 x 2 = $1,798. The M1 is hard to beat for the money.

 

40 minutes ago, Mops911 said:

not at all, I've got a Dell for around $1700 when it was on sale in April with i9-10900k and even a low-end Quadro card with allows for some offloading.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, elan120 said:

What is the minimum configuration requirements needed to do DSD 256/ASDM7EC from any resolution base file using most filters?

Jussi has said that the base model (256/8) will work fine. I chose the 256/16 version for $899. 

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2 hours ago, Druid said:

Considering that it couldn't do DSD512 with the EC modulators from the beginning, I guess it was "obsolete" from the beginning. 

I assume that a much more expensive build would be required for ext3, unless you have a recommendation?

 

A much more expensive build would be needed. You couldn't even buy the GPU for the price of the M1, that is if you could get it at all.

 

One thing we all need to keep in mind is that just because a filter uses enormous amounts of processing power, it does not mean that it is certainly better than one that does not.

 

There is a tendency in all things but especially in this hobby to be seduced by the power of big numbers. If a filter has 1 million taps, then one with 16 million must sound better and then why not 1 billion taps. I could go on but I think the point is made.