Cybershaft platinum clock + Mutec MC3+USB : wow!

[dancause]

Well, I have just connected my newly received Cybershaft Platinum clock. Added to the Mutec MC3+USB + SMS-200 ultra + Lush, this is quite unbelievable.  This clock is worth 2-3 times its price when I compare to DACs, amps and powercords costs...  Not saying these components are not worth their price (quite the contrary!) but really, I didn't know the rest of my system could sound like this...

 

I don't have enough words to describe the complexity, control and realism that gets out of my speakers...   I can just say that this translates into some kind of relaxed tranquility when I let the music play. No more underlying stress searching for something that is not really there..

 

This took a lot of reading of infinite forum threads...   :-)

 

That said, I really want to thank those who are taking time to explore new tweaks and components and take time to write about their findings.  

What I hear today is the result of this communities' work and exploration!  Thank you all!

 

[wushuliu]

This clock appears to be ~$900...

[dancause]

Yes +/- with the yen conversion.  Many discussion about it elsewhere in this forum.

 

I just wanted to add my experience for those who were wondering if it was worth it.

[George Hincapie]

3 hours ago, dancause said:

Well, I have just connected my newly received Cybershaft Platinum clock. Added to the Mutec MC3+USB + SMS-200 ultra + Lush, this is quite unbelievable.  This clock is worth 2-3 times its price when I compare to DACs, amps and powercords costs...  Not saying these components are not worth their price (quite the contrary!) but really, I didn't know the rest of my system could sound like this...

 

I don't have enough words to describe the complexity, control and realism that gets out of my speakers...   I can just say that this translates into some kind of relaxed tranquility when I let the music play. No more underlying stress searching for something that is not really there..

 

This took a lot of reading of infinite forum threads...   :-)

 

That said, I really want to thank those who are taking time to explore new tweaks and components and take time to write about their findings.  

What I hear today is the result of this communities' work and exploration!  Thank you all!

 

 

Please bring this device to my house and show me, because I can't believe for one second that slightly more accurate timing can have this great a transformative impact.

 

Colour me sceptical...

[dancause]

:-) it's not getting out of my house.  

 

I'm not here to argue. I believe my ears and want to share a bit of my findings. That's all. 

 

A couple of months ago, I also thought I had reach the max my system could offer and that no gizmo could improve it. It seems not with this..

 

 

[ElviaCaprice]

@dancause, did you only use the one ouput for the Mutec MC3?  Not the sms-200 ultra?  Maybe you don't have a master clock input on the Ultra anyways?  Did you have to special order your Cybershaft for power considerations?

Congratulations, your findings with the masterclock are similar to others.

[dancause]

Only on the Mutec.  Sadly, I did not chose the connector option when I bought the Ultra.  That said (and maybe I'm auto convincing myself), it seems right to use the only connector from the Cybershaft to connect to what is the closest to my dac.

[ElviaCaprice]

4 minutes ago, dancause said:

Only on the Mutec.  Sadly, I did not chose the connector option when I bought the Ultra.  That said (and maybe I'm auto convincing myself), it seems right to use the only connector from the Cybershaft to connect to what is the closest to my dac.

In the past I would agree, but now with the sCLK-EX server, I probably would do all the clocks throughout the stream.  All that matters is it worked for you and your happy with the SQ.

Did you have to special order your Cybershaft for power considerations?  Where did you order one?

[dancause]

ordered 2 weeks ago, US/Can voltage with a 50ohm cable. Very very kind and efficient service.  Took 5 days to ship from Japan to Quebec city..

[GUTB]

What are you locking to the Cybershaft? Just the Mutec?

[dancause]

yes, just before the dac.

 

a bit along what @SwissBear suggested here : 

 

[soundlogic]

Hi Dancause; Thanks for the report. I too have become interested in the Cybershaft clock after reading various forums, as a cost effective alternative to the Mutec Ref 10. I personally don’t need all the outputs on the Ref 10, so the Cybershaft would work fine for me. I also would be using the Cybershaft with a MC3USB as well. So, you eluded that you might have configured the Cybershaft differently, or did I misunderstand? Also, one of my concerns with the Cybershaft is it’s 50 ohm out and the Mutec’s 75 ohm in. Is there a work around to this or is a work around necessary? What cable are you using in between the two devices? Are noticing any sonic changes during break-in/how many hours do you have on the Cybershaft?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Tim

[dancause]

Hi, soundlogic,

 

no the cybershaft is used as it is, with a 50ohm cable provided by Cybershaft (I read elsewhere that they were not bad at all). I specified that the clock would be used with the mutec which has a 75ohm connector.  Kenji Hasegawa from Cybershaft assured me that this would work well and it seems to be so. 

 

The clock has been running for 3 days now. Everything slowly is improving, with more detail and more finess. 

 

I will report if this still improves later on in the first 30 days. 

 

Cheers!

 

Phil

[austinpop]

Congratultions @dancause

 

I know exactly what an improvement you are hearing. I was fortunate enough to snag a rare OP-14 from Kenji a couple months ago. In case you didn't see my review, it is here:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?do=findComment&comment=721466

 

Enjoy the Cybershaft.

[dancause]

Hi @austinpop,  your writing was part of my exploration.   thanks!  

[soundlogic]

Is there anyone that is following this thread, using a PS Audio Directstream DAC and Mutec MC3+ with a Ref. clock?

I would love to hear your experience. I have been told by one forum member that the Direcstream DAC would NOT benefit from a master clock...

[LowMidHigh]

A bit of an old thread, but still...

 

I have two chains, both requiring a re-clocker, due to subpar SQ from the coax output.

 

DAP -> Eitr -> Genelec

DAP -> Mutec 3+ USB -> Genelec

 

I’m debating whether to lock the MC3+ to either the Cybershaft Ultimate “OP13” or Mutec REF10. (Squeezing that late bit of juice). The difference in cost is considerable ($1,500 vs $3,500). 

 

Has anyone compared between the two?

Can the REF10 really roundly beat the Cybershaft?

 

BTW, the new Cybershaft Ultimate support both 50 and 75ohm output.

 

[ThenewGearPPK]

On 10/5/2018 at 5:27 AM, LowMidHigh said:

A bit of an old thread, but still...

 

I have two chains, both requiring a re-clocker, due to subpar SQ from the coax output.

 

DAP -> Eitr -> Genelec

DAP -> Mutec 3+ USB -> Genelec

 

I’m debating whether to lock the MC3+ to either the Cybershaft Ultimate “OP13” or Mutec REF10. (Squeezing that late bit of juice). The difference in cost is considerable ($1,500 vs $3,500). 

 

Has anyone compared between the two?

Can the REF10 really roundly beat the Cybershaft?

 

BTW, the new Cybershaft Ultimate support both 50 and 75ohm output.

 

 

Where can one order a Cybershaft? On their webpage, it is all in Japanese & I didn't see an option to add to cart anywhere.

 

[LowMidHigh]

Chrome should prompt you for translation acknowledgenent. There's a section with "Purchase in English." You will be sending an email, and Kenji will respond. That's his email, just in case: [email protected]

 

Shipping at the beginning of Nov. PayPal payment. Shipping cost not included. 

 

Which OP do you have in mind? If I may ask, why Cybershaft and not REF10? Just because of the cost? 

[anroj]

I'm planning to upgrade my iFi Micro iDSD to the iFi Pro iDSD and will be investing in a Mutec Ref10 or a Cybershaft Platinum reference master clock. I see that some folks here also have the Mutec MC-3+ in their chains. Can I just connect the clock into the clock sync on the Pro iDSD or do I need something like the MC-3+ as well?

[zephyr24069]

Check out the newly announced Cybershaft Platimum (single output 50-ohn or 75-ohm);

 

http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ultimate1.html

 

or Cybershaft Limited2 (3 output 50-ohm or 75-ohm, selectable for each!);

 

http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/limited2.html

 

Can be ordered in levels OP14 up to OP20 (the higher levels are likely to be rare so best order soon!).

 

Kenji's been VERY busy and the phase noise and jitter specs on the higher end units are off the charts!

[zephyr24069]

On 10/11/2018 at 1:18 AM, ThenewGearPPK said:

 

Where can one order a Cybershaft? On their webpage, it is all in Japanese & I didn't see an option to add to cart anywhere.

 

 

On the left side of the page, you will find a link to inquire and order for overseas customers outside of Japan;

 

http://www.cybershaft.jp/overseas01.html

 

[LowMidHigh]

51 minutes ago, zephyr24069 said:

Check out the newly announced Cybershaft Platimum (single output 50-ohn or 75-ohm);

 

http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ultimate1.html

 

or Cybershaft Limited2 (3 output 50-ohm or 75-ohm, selectable for each!);

 

http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/limited2.html

 

Can be ordered in levels OP14 up to OP20 (the higher levels are likely to be rare so best order soon!).

 

Kenji's been VERY busy and the phase noise and jitter specs on the higher end units are off the charts!

Well, since we’re on the subject, let me share what I picked up from Kenji regarding the Ultimate / Limited with many detailed and nagging questions. 
 

(A)
The new models perform equivalently to the discontinued models + 1. That is:
Ultimate OP13 = discontinued OP14

Ultimate OP14 = Premium OP15

And so on. 
 

(B) 

According their measuring instruments, the clock’s performance plateaued at 14/15 when locked to MC3+USB. So on paper anything higher is a waste. Still, their AB/X suggest audible improvements when going beyond 15, albeit marginally so. 

I don't know if the AB/X was performed properly and if the sample is statistically unbiased. YMMV

(C)

To their ears, the new OP15 sounds very close to REF10, and the OP16 exceeds it. Again, they stress those are their opinions. 

As always, be wary of placebo and bias confirmation. 

(D)

According to Kenji, despite being based on reclaimed chips, their clocks have been flawlessly operating for over a decade. In general, failure rate is infinitesimally low.

(E)

OCOX are sensitive to vibrations. 

If your clock is by a turn table or affected by low frequencies, you should contemplate making some changes. Yes, subwoofers in the vicinity will degrade the performance as well. 

The Cybershaft support feet can be replaced with 4mm spikes, but I’d advise against it: studies show spikes actually magnify vibrations. Rubber bumpers should be more suitable.  

(F)
Preferably, the word clock cable shouldn't exceed 2 meters, but they tested a 6-meter implementation, and the signal showed no degradation. 

_______________________________________________________________________

OP15 sounded enticing—over a grand saving over REF10—but ultimately, I went the Mutec route. The reason? Cybershaft has no return policy. I tried to convince Kenji to accept a re-stocking fee, but he politely declined, which was more the reason to make me leery. I’d never pony up $2,200 on “cat-in-a-bag” gear, and more so if the manufacturer doesn’t have full confidence in their product’s performance. 

I should mention that I did run into a few contradictions in his replies. Perhaps things got “lost in translation” so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  

Lastly, if you intend to get either the Limited or purchase the clock distributor, the small difference in price points between Cypershaft and REF10 points in the direction of the latter.

[zephyr24069]

On 10/11/2018 at 1:18 AM, ThenewGearPPK said:

 

Where can one order a Cybershaft? On their webpage, it is all in Japanese & I didn't see an option to add to cart anywhere.

 

 

On the left side of the page, you will find a link to inquire and order for overseas customers outside of Japan;

 

http://www.cybershaft.jp/overseas01.html

 

[zephyr24069]

50 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

Well, since we’re on the subject, let me share what I picked up from Kenji regarding the Ultimate / Limited with many detailed and nagging questions. 
 

(A)
The new models perform equivalently to the discontinued models + 1. That is:
Ultimate OP13 = discontinued OP14

Ultimate OP14 = Premium OP15

And so on. 
 

(B) 

According their measuring instruments, the clock’s performance plateaued at 14/15 when locked to MC3+USB. So on paper anything higher is a waste. Still, their AB/X suggest audible improvements when going beyond 15, albeit marginally so. 

I don't know if the AB/X was performed properly and if the sample is statistically unbiased. YMMV

(C)

To their ears, the new OP15 sounds very close to REF10, and the OP16 exceeds it. Again, they stress those are their opinions. 

As always, be wary of placebo and bias confirmation. 

(D)

According to Kenji, despite being based on reclaimed chips, their clocks have been flawlessly operating for over a decade. In general, failure rate is infinitesimally low.

(E)

OCOX are sensitive to vibrations. 

If your clock is by a turn table or affected by low frequencies, you should contemplate making some changes. Yes, subwoofers in the vicinity will degrade the performance as well. 

The Cybershaft support feet can be replaced with 4mm spikes, but I’d advise against it: studies show spikes actually magnify vibrations. Rubber bumpers should be more suitable.  

(F)
Preferably, the word clock cable shouldn't exceed 2 meters, but they tested a 6-meter implementation, and the signal showed no degradation. 

_______________________________________________________________________

OP15 sounded enticing—over a grand saving over REF10—but ultimately, I went the Mutec route. The reason? Cybershaft has no return policy. I tried to convince Kenji to accept a re-stocking fee, but he politely declined, which was more the reason to make me leery. I’d never pony up $2,200 on “cat-in-a-bag” gear, and more so if the manufacturer doesn’t have full confidence in their product’s performance. 

I should mention that I did run into a few contradictions in his replies. Perhaps things got “lost in translation” so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  

Lastly, if you intend to get either the Limited or purchase the clock distributor, the small difference in price points between Cybershaft and REF10 points in the direction of the latter.

 

LowMidHigh: Thank you for the reminder on the Clock Distributor newly announced today.  I cannot edit my original post any longer so I'll amend it here....

 

 

Newly announced Cybershaft Platimum (single output 50-ohn or 75-ohm);
 
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ultimate1.html
 
or Cybershaft Limited2 (3 output 50-ohm or 75-ohm, selectable for each!);
 
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/limited2.html
 
Can be ordered in levels OP14 up to OP20 (the higher levels are likely to be rare so best order soon!).
 
Kenji's been VERY busy and the phase noise and jitter specs on the higher end units are off the charts!

Brand new today (19-November-2018)

 

New announced (today) audiophile-grade Clock Distributor (up to 3 outputs);

http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/clockdist01.html

 

Thanks for reporting your feedback and conversations regarding the earlier generation units. I'm very glad you found the REF10

to be a perfect match for your existing gear.

 

A few thoughts based upon your post;

 

- footers: I've found putting my Cybershaft clock up on Stillpoint UltraSS footers with Bases is a very good and cost-effective

solution that delivers aurally evident improvement to isolating this clock (or any other). I would imagine that EdenSound's Terracones would also be a great solution....

 

- "Used OCXO units...": agree that Cybershaft's higher end modules (including the OP21 unit I have today) are curated and deeply tested used and proven units.  When i first heard of this as I ordered several clocks to test and to eventually own, I was skeptical being the good audio-nut that I am ? and wanting 'brand new'.  Kenji explained the benefits of finding such proven units and rigorously testing them versus buy supposedly perfect new units and hoping they will stabilize and be rock solid; I was sold on this after several iterations.  Just like anything else in high precision manufacturing, every unit coming off the line is not perfect and some are much better than others over time.  For a component like an OCXO module (or Rb for that matter) I'd rather (now) have a used unit that is validated, proven and certified than a new unit where i hope all is well...

 

- Inconsistent answers: to the extent that my experience matters, I can promise you based upon that experience alone that the inconsistencies are due to language barrier.  He's been extremely reliable in my dealings with him over 2+ years and always delivers what he says he will; the finer details of the communications and the fact that he's learning English these last 2 years including I believe taking classes as of late to improve his communications take a bit of getting used to but I trust him completely for which the proof has been in actions, not in words...

 

- Testing Reliability: Again, only from my experience, diving deep into the test results, I have found them to be squared away and objective scientific measurements.  It may help that Kenji uses the following facility for all his testing;

 

http://www.cybershaft.jp/cyberqc01.html

 

http://www.cybershaft.jp/clockcal.html

 

- Levels above OP14,....I have heard that OP14/15 is sufficient and there is no audible difference for many users who also find REF10 to deliver equal or superior performance.  For my own testing with OP's below 14, OP14, OP17, OP18, OP20 and OP21 (my unit and I owned 2 others of less precision/higher phase noise along the way from Cybershaft plus an Esoteric G-0s and G-03X), I found that not all levels above OP12, 13 and 14 delivered any benefit and in 2 cases detracted from the sound using an Esoteric P-02 and D-02 as my test rack for music listening.  I found the following to be superior in sound and noticeably better at each step (OP14, OP17, OP20 and OP21 with my preference falling for the OP14, OP17 and top of the heap, the OP21 I happen to have). This included the Rb and  OCXO models from Esoteric which weighed in with much higher phase noise and lower long-term as well as short-term precision (at least to my reading of the test results including Allen Variance & Deviation).  Listening testing was done non-blind so there is possibility of placebo effect, owner bias, etc...however I did own and OP12, and OP14, OP17 and lastly the OP21 so I would say owner bias if not totally removed was limited in all fairness.

 

- No return policy: I think this may have to do ( a pure guess) that he is small vendor and has limited markup; he cannot sustain the try, try, try and maybe buy that many audiophiles sometimes do.  As far as faith in what he does, he does share a full test and certification report battery report with the buyer (did so with me 4 times) BEFORE he ships giving the buyer the right to walk away from the transaction so to me, that is another sort of faith in one's product as he builds them all from scratch at time of order so he's taking the chance that he could build something out of his own pocket that the buyer walks away from before trying.  Sounds like a very similar arrangement just without the ship, wait, return shipment, possibility of damage expense and time....

 

- For me,...I've tried 2 Esoteric clocks (owned, Rb and OCXO) and demo'ed (2, G-01 and and G1) all weighing in at much higher prices; for me, for my Esoteric stack, I simply love the sounds and musicality that comes out when it's all driven by a Cybershaft clock...

 

Very glad you have good luck with the REF10; I've now heard as of a couple months ago at a friend's place and agree that it is one hell of a great unit!

 

Mark