Sonore ultraDigital v2.0

[birdland45]

13 minutes ago, birdland45 said:

 

Hi:

 

Are you responding to the channel swap issue or the possible DSD out of phase issue?

 

I know that the channels are swapped for both PCM and DSD.  The interconnects are currently swapped between left and right channels so they are correct.  Of course, if I use any other digital input on the DAC, the channels are swapped again.

 

Since the ultraDigital is a condensed SU-1, I am assuming that it has the same issues as the SU-1 when being used with the W4S DAC via I2S.  It sound like we need a new firmware version for the ultraDigital similar to what Singxer did with the SU-1.

 

To add to my previous post, I just noticed that the long description for SW6 (DCH) and SW8 (DACH) are 'DSD LR CHANNEL opposition' and 'DATA SIGNAL opposition' respectively.

 

Do these switches swap the left and right channels?

 

Maybe, they should be set to OFF?

 

I am going to try setting them to off.

[birdland45]

Before I change the switch settings, I decided to change my HDMI cable just in case.  This did not change the channel swap issue.  I also ripped track 2 'Channel identification' and track 3 'Channel Phasing' from my Stereophile Test CD.  (Forgot I had that!).  I also converted the WAV files to DSD64.

 

I doubled checked the RCA interconnects going from the DAC to my tape deck into which I have plugged in headphones.  Left to goes left and right goes to right.

 

I can confirm the following:

 

- Channels are swapped when playing PCM

- Channels are swapped when playing DSD

- Phase is INCORRECT when playing DSD - NEW finding

- Phase is correct when playing PCM.

 

If the switches behave as I surmised in my previous post, turning them both off should solve the channel swap problem but not the DSD out of phase problem.  I am still going to switch them off to see if at least one problem is solved.

[birdland45]

So I switched both SW6 and SW8 to off.

 

Now we have the following:

 

- DSD channels are correct

- DSD phasing is correct

- PCM channels are still reversed

- PCM phasing is correct

 

I have confirmed this several times just to be sure.  It seems SW6 and SW8 only apply to DSD since both the phase and the channels are correct for DSD with these set to OFF.  However for PCM, the channels are still swapped but the phase is correct.

 

So what's next?

[vortecjr]

I’m looking for confirmation with proper L/R test files. Also, have you uploaded any firmware to the unit? SW6 set to off makes the output more like PS Audio which W4S has said is not correct so that setting seems wrong to me. In the mean time, I shared the post with Singxer and I asked Leter to chime in.

[birdland45]

3 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

I’m looking for confirmation with proper L/R test files. Also, have you uploaded any firmware to the unit? SW6 set to off makes the output more like PS Audio which W4S has said is not correct so that setting seems wrong to me. In the mean time, I shared the post with Singxer and I asked Leter to chime in.

 

Hi:

 

Maybe you didn't see my latest updates.

 

I used proper L/R files.  As stated, I am using files ripped from Tracks 2 and 3 of the Stereophile Test CD.  Track 2 is for Channel Identification and Track 3 is for Channel Phasing.  My second latest test with both SW6 and SW8 OFF had proper L/R channels and phasing for DSD files but swapped L/R channels for PCM files but still correct phasing.

 

My latest test was with SW6 ON but SW8 OFF.  This gives me proper phasing for both PCM and DSD files but with the L and R channels reversed for both.  For now, I can at least just swap the interconnects going to my pre-amp and have music coming from the proper channels and the phasing correct for all files.  However, this is only for the I2S input on the DAC.  If I use any other input, I will have reversed channels.

 

I have not uploaded any firmware to the unit.  I did install the drivers from the Small Green Computer ultraDigital web page and checked the firmware level and it is at 2.20.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Thanks for responding during the holidays.

 

Walter

[birdland45]

28 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

I’m looking for confirmation with proper L/R test files. Also, have you uploaded any firmware to the unit? SW6 set to off makes the output more like PS Audio which W4S has said is not correct so that setting seems wrong to me. In the mean time, I shared the post with Singxer and I asked Leter to chime in.

 

BTW, SW6 is ON for both PSAUDIO and W4S on your website for the ultraDigital.

 

Also, there was no firmware update available when I checked the current level.

 

Where would I find what is the latest firmware level for this device?

 

Thanks,

Walter

[birdland45]

4 hours ago, birdland45 said:

 

BTW, SW6 is ON for both PSAUDIO and W4S on your website for the ultraDigital.

 

Also, there was no firmware update available when I checked the current level.

 

Where would I find what is the latest firmware level for this device?

 

Thanks,

Walter

 

Based on what I read in the other topics with respect to the SU-1 and W4S DACs, I think that the problem is the firnware version on my particular ultraDigital.

 

In the various posts, they mention 2 versions of the firmware for the SU-1, 2.00 and 2.02.  And the difference was the fact that the channels were swapped.  It looks like the ultraDigital and the SU-1 share the same firmware or at least the same version numbers of the firmware.  I think with a combination of version numbers and firmware, we could get correct DSD phasing and correct channel placement.

 

This is just my 2 cents worth.  A major part of my job is to analyze and solve problems, so I just naturally try to solve a problem when I am confronted with one.

[vortecjr]

Those test files should work great. The firmware that shipped with the unit is the latest. The Windows driver will not hurt anything so no issue using it. Try this setup: sw 6 and 7 on, all other off.

[birdland45]

I will try this setup later today and report back.

 

The only reason I mention firmware is because there were two flavors of firmware mentioned in the SU-1/W4S DAC thread: V2.00 and V2.02.  The only difference between them was that the DSD channels were reversed.  At least that's what I gather from the kitstune Hifi site which sells the SU-1.  There are also two versions of the latest 2017 firmware: V2.20 and V2.22

 

From Kitstune Hifi site:

 

NEW 2017 firmware (2.22 and 2.20) for DSD512 native is for customers only and by email request only. This will support the newest OS for Sonore Urendu @ full dsd512 native!

1.only for Singxer SU-1,support DSD512 in native.
2.Do not upgrade any other XMOS device,including SINGXER other XMOS device.
3.V2.20 update for V2.00; (for holo audio, Audio-GD, L.K.S.)
V2.22 update for V2.02. (for PSAUDIO, Gustard, )
This will allow DSD512 only with some versions of linux, or newest OS on the Sonore Microrendu
and with Windows and HoloAudio Spring signed drivers installed. NOT singxer drivers (these only support DSD256 over DOP)

 

Again, I am assuming that this is the same V2.20 that is on my ultraDigital.

 

Thanks.

[birdland45]

8 hours ago, vortecjr said:

Those test files should work great. The firmware that shipped with the unit is the latest. The Windows driver will not hurt anything so no issue using it. Try this setup: sw 6 and 7 on, all other off.

 

OK. I've performed the test with SW 6 and 7 set to ON.

 

Results with SW6 and SW7 set to ON:

 

- PCM channel not swapped

- DSD channels SWAPPED

- PCM channel phasing correct

- DSD channel phasing is OUT OF PHASE

 

As a reminder, here are the results for other switch settings.

 

Results with SW6 and SW8 set to ON (as per sonore.us website):

 

- PCM channels are SWAPPED

- DSD channels are SWAPPED

- PCM channel phasing correct

- DSD channel phasing is OUT OF PHASE

 

Results will all switches set to OFF:

 

- PCM channels are SWAPPED

- DSD channels are not swapped

- PCM channel phasing correct

- DSD channel phasing correct

 

Results with SW6 set to ON:

 

- PCM channels are SWAPPED

- DSD channels are SWAPPED

- PCM channel phasing correct

- DSD channel phasing correct

 

I then decided to try only SW8 ON and then with only SW7 and SW8 ON.

 

Results with SW8 only set to ON:

 

- PCM channels are SWAPPED

- DSD channels not swapped

- PCM channel phasing correct

- DSD channel phasing is OUT OF PHASE

 

Results with SW7 and SW8 set to ON:

 

- PCM channels not swapped

- DSD channels not swapped

- PCM channel phasing correct

- DSD channel phasing correct

 

SUCCESS!?!?!?!

 

I have to listen to the 4 test tracks a few more times just to be sure but it seems that the channels are not swapped and the channel phase is correct for both PCM and DSD if SW7 and SW8 are set to ON and all others are OFF.

[birdland45]

I have listened to the test files several times.  I am 100% sure that the channels are NOT swapped and the channel phase is correct for both PCM and DSD with SW7 and SW8 set to ON.

 

Jesus - thanks for suggesting various switch settings.  The various results pointed me to the correct settings.  I guess you'll have to update your web page.

[rah50]

Thanks Walter for working thru the W4S switch settings, greatly appreciated. I think a ultraDigital is definitely in my future once back in stock!

 

If anyone would like to make a suggestion, how would you best power my device chain:

 

microRendu v1.3 -> ISO Regen -> ultraDigital using one LPS-1 and one HDplex 100w PS? 

 

and would the ISO Regen even be needed? or is an upgrade to microRendu v1.4 a necessity?

 

Thoughts?

[birdland45]

27 minutes ago, rah50 said:

Thanks Walter for working thru the W4S switch settings, greatly appreciated. I think a ultraDigital is definitely in my future once back in stock!

 

If anyone would like to make a suggestion, how would you best power my device chain:

 

microRendu v1.3 -> ISO Regen -> ultraDigital using one LPS-1 and one HDplex 100w PS? 

 

and would the ISO Regen even be needed? or is an upgrade to microRendu v1.4 a necessity?

 

Thoughts?

 

Hi Bob:

 

You are welcome.

 

What about the Wyred 4 Sound PS-1 Modular Linear Power Supply?  It is on sale at the moment and you can put up to 4 1A power modules in the unit.  Each power module can be set to any of 4 voltages: 5, 9, 12 or 15.  You can also have one regular power module and one high-current power module at 2A continuous or 3A maximum.

 

I'm thinking of getting an ISO Regen to replace my W4S RUR but I am wondering if I even need any reconditioning, etc of the USB signal between the ultraRendu and ultraDigital.  Anyone know?

 

Also, does anyone have a suggestion for a good HDMI cable between the ultraDigital and the W4S DAC which doesn't cost hundreds of dollars?  At the moment, I am just using a long HDMI cable that came with my Roku.

 

I'm going to put my questions about HDMI cable and ISO Regen with ultraRendu in a separate topic.

[rah50]

Kitsune has a Wireworld UltraViolet .3m cable for $75. I think it;'s got good reviews from the Holo users.

 

I don't want to buy another PS. The LPS-1 and HDPlex should be enough. I'm just not sure where to use the LPS-1 to best advantage.

[wwaldmanfan]

1 hour ago, rah50 said:

Kitsune has a Wireworld UltraViolet .3m cable for $75. I think it;'s got good reviews from the Holo users.

 

I don't want to buy another PS. The LPS-1 and HDPlex should be enough. I'm just not sure where to use the LPS-1 to best advantage.

 

Here's the USB version. A nice short cable, when that's all you need.

 

[birdland45]

38 minutes ago, wwaldmanfan said:

 

Here's the USB version. A nice short cable, when that's all you need.

 

 

Thanks but I'm actually looking for an HDMI cable not a USB cable.

 

 

1 hour ago, rah50 said:

Kitsune has a Wireworld UltraViolet .3m cable for $75. I think it;'s got good reviews from the Holo users.

 

I don't want to buy another PS. The LPS-1 and HDPlex should be enough. I'm just not sure where to use the LPS-1 to best advantage.

 

Bob - thanks but that cable is out of stock.  I think I'm going to go with a 1m Shunyata Venom HDMI cable for $50 regularly $100 on MusicDirect.com.  I can always get a different one in the $100 range later if I find reviews of better ones.

[vortecjr]

4 hours ago, birdland45 said:

I have listened to the test files several times.  I am 100% sure that the channels are NOT swapped and the channel phase is correct for both PCM and DSD with SW7 and SW8 set to ON.

 

Jesus - thanks for suggesting various switch settings.  The various results pointed me to the correct settings.  I guess you'll have to update your web page.

Nice work. I’ll update the spreadsheet in the next day or so. 

[birdland45]

41 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Nice work. I’ll update the spreadsheet in the next day or so. 

 

Thanks.

 

I still do not understand how turning on SW7 after SW8 was set to ON helped based on the following:

 

Results with SW8 only set to ON:

 

- PCM channels are SWAPPED

- DSD channels not swapped

- PCM channel phasing correct

- DSD channel phasing is OUT OF PHASE

 

Results with SW7 and SW8 set to ON:

 

- PCM channels not swapped

- DSD channels not swapped

- PCM channel phasing correct

- DSD channel phasing correct

 

How could SW7 correct the DSD phase issue AND swap the PCM channels based on the description of SW7 'LRCLK SIGNAL opposition''?

 

[daverich4]

On 12/26/2017 at 4:10 PM, birdland45 said:

 I tried iPeng with JRiver MC using the latter as a media server but iPeng could not find JRiver.  I hope I didn't spend $10 for nothing.  MonkeyMote couldn't find it either.  Hopefully, I jut don't know what I'm doing.

 

IPeng is designed as a front end for Logitech Media Server and won’t work with JRMS. For JRiver you’d need something like JRemote. 

[rah50]

ultraDigital ordered, Small Green had them.

[vortecjr]

Just updated this post and the website to reflect the change to the W4S setup via the switches. Also, units are back in stock at both the Sonore and SGC stores.   

[birdland45]

27 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Just updated this post and the website to reflect the change to the W4S setup via the switches. Also, units are back in stock at both the Sonore and SGC stores.   

 

Jesus - thanks for letting us know.

 

Have you or anyone else confirmed that the other switch setting are correct for their particular DACs as well?

[vortecjr]

To date just PS Audio and W4S.  

[rah50]

Don't know if the ultraDigital or my new HDMI cable need any break-in, but right out of the box it's a very nice improvement to my system. Thanks Sonore!

[birdland45]

4 hours ago, rah50 said:

Don't know if the ultraDigital or my new HDMI cable need any break-in, but right out of the box it's a very nice improvement to my system. Thanks Sonore!

 

I haven't tried to compare the I2S with my laptop going directly into the W4S DAC-2v2SE because I have a crappy HDMI cable and am waiting for a decent one to arrive.  I also have to set up the sonictransporter that arrived today.

 

I will comment on the sound once I have everything set up with the new HDMI cable.

 

BTW Bob, I messaged you.