Sonore ultraDigital v2.0

[Axiom05]

3 minutes ago, Struttmaster said:

I am looking to connect a microRendu to the optical input of a Meridian 218 streamer, (bypassing the streaming part of the 218 but utilising it's DAC). Looking to use the ultraDIGITAL but wondering what cable I should get and how to configure.

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew

The ultraDigital does not have an optical output.

[Struttmaster]

Yeah, looking to go from SPDIF to optical....

[Axiom05]

1 minute ago, Struttmaster said:

Yeah, looking to go from SPDIF to optical....

OK. Please post what you end up using, I might be interested in trying that myself with my DAC.

[Struttmaster]

Sure, hopefully someone comes up with a good idea here!

[Superdad]

59 minutes ago, Struttmaster said:

Yeah, looking to go from SPDIF to optical....

 

I thought you were looking to go from USB to Toslink (optical).  At least that is what you stated in your e-mail to me.

There are many USB converters on the market that provide Toslink output (in addition to S/PDIF), but since the performance of Toslink is limited (by the standardly available transmit and receive parts), a lot of the better DDCs don’t include Toslink as it is not the usual choice for the target purchaser. 

 

It looks like your Meridian 218 also includes an S/PDIF input (on RCA jack right above the optical jack), so perhaps you can use that instead.

[Struttmaster]

That's cool, the 218 is a side project. My recent ISO purchase will be well placed in another system.  I am just looking for the best way to connect a Rendu to the 218's toslink input in an effort to improve the SQ of the 218. (The RCA SPDIF on the 218 is tied up with HT duties). If an UDigital is well suited, as I hope it is, that's fantastic, if it's not, it's not the end of the world. (It can be used elsewhere too). If the toslink optical connection is a bottleneck/weak link and I am wasting my time no probs, it is good to know.  I'd just like to know if there is a way to do it thay may improve SQ. I didn't mean to high jack the thread, just thought the UD may have been well suited and wondering what options are available to connect it to toslink. As an earlier post suggests, someone else is curious too.

[barrows]

There are very few toslink inputs which produce good performance, usually only those with a true asynchronous re-clocker (very rare) will allow for low jitter.  If your priority is sound quality, it is generally a good idea to avoid toslink.

[Confused]

1 hour ago, Struttmaster said:

That's cool, the 218 is a side project. My recent ISO purchase will be well placed in another system.  I am just looking for the best way to connect a Rendu to the 218's toslink input in an effort to improve the SQ of the 218. (The RCA SPDIF on the 218 is tied up with HT duties). If an UDigital is well suited, as I hope it is, that's fantastic, if it's not, it's not the end of the world. (It can be used elsewhere too). If the toslink optical connection is a bottleneck/weak link and I am wasting my time no probs, it is good to know.  I'd just like to know if there is a way to do it thay may improve SQ. I didn't mean to high jack the thread, just thought the UD may have been well suited and wondering what options are available to connect it to toslink. As an earlier post suggests, someone else is curious too.

The Mutec MC3+USB would do it.  I am not sure it would be worth the cost for this use though.

[Struttmaster]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

There are very few toslink inputs which produce good performance, usually only those with a true asynchronous re-clocker (very rare) will allow for low jitter.  If your priority is sound quality, it is generally a good idea to avoid toslink.

Good to know, thanks

 

[asdf1000]

3 hours ago, barrows said:

There are very few toslink inputs which produce good performance, usually only those with a true asynchronous re-clocker (very rare) will allow for low jitter.

 

Can you share the ones you know of?

 

[rodrigaj]

@Em2016

 

I had very good luck with the W4S Remedy Reclocker: Airport Express>Remedy>W4S DAC. I used it for around 2 years when I listened to the Berlin Philharmonic Digital Concert Hall through Airplay controlled Video broadcast on my iPad.

 

It made a noticeable improvement over toslink direct to the DAC. I regret selling it. 

[barrows]

4 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Can you share the ones you know of?

 

Ayre QX-5 DAC

[Axiom05]

I am getting ready to try Roon with my ultraRendu/ultraDigital and I was wondering if the uD will cause any issues. Will Roon be able to see my DAC with the uD connected? Right now, Sonic Orbiter only shows the uR and uD, not my DAC.

[vortecjr]

2 hours ago, Axiom05 said:

I am getting ready to try Roon with my ultraRendu/ultraDigital and I was wondering if the uD will cause any issues. Will Roon be able to see my DAC with the uD connected? Right now, Sonic Orbiter only shows the uR and uD, not my DAC.

No chance it will automatically see your DAC....it just can’t. 

[Axiom05]

3 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

No chance it will automatically see your DAC....it just can’t. 

So I can’t use the uD if I want to use Roon?

[vortecjr]

Of course you can!

[Axiom05]

23 hours ago, vortecjr said:

Of course you can!

And it does work.

[JFHSQT]

My end goal is to stream Tidal via Roon into my Marantz ND8006 but I am finding some trouble getting the best sound quality out of my signal path.

 

I have been testing an ultraRendu with UpTone LPS 1.2 into my Marantz ND8006 and found that the USB integration in the Marantz is not very good. The sound quality streaming from HEOS internally in the Marantz is significantly better. I also attempted to use Sonore Bridge to get ethernet into my Marantz via Roon Squeezebox emulation but also found that lacking against the Marantz HEOS streaming.

 

Before I give up on the uR (and Roon), I am considering the ultraDigital to see if SPDIF into the Marantz can match the sound quality of HEOS streaming from Tidal. 

 

Is there any reason to believe the ultraDigital can overcome the issues I have experienced in getting the same sound quality from HEOS streaming to the ND8006?

 

I am not very tech-savvy on the nuts and bolts of clocks and jitter, etc... but I am assuming that this is why I have experienced a difference in overall soundstage, depth, and clarity between the options I have tried so far.

 

I am willing to spend more money to get equal sounding quality from my ND8006 as the HEOS streaming, as I am skeptical that Marantz will become a Roon endpoint anytime soon and I am not happy with the HEOS interface at all. Before I throw in the towel and give up I want to explore all of my options. 

 

[barrows]

1 hour ago, JFHSQT said:

Is there any reason to believe the ultraDigital can overcome the issues I have experienced in getting the same sound quality from HEOS streaming to the ND8006?

The input quality of every DAC is different, and each input is different as well.  I am a bit surprised that a a company such as Marantz would have a USB input implementation which is so bad that its performance cannot be made at least equal to all other inputs via the use of an ultraRendu, usually, IME, even DACs with so-so USB inputs perform very well when paired with a Rendu (even DAC which do not do so well via USB with a direct computer connection, usually a Rendu improves the USB performance a lot).

First I would make sure that you have tried everything to get the USB input on the Marantz to sound great with the ultraRendu: make sure you have a good USB cable, for example, although I would not suggest adding a bunch of USB doodads or anything.

 

On the addition of the ultraDigital and using a SPDIF input in the Marantz.  It is possible that this approach would result in better performance, of course this would depend on how good the Marantz's SPDIF input is and the quality of the SPDIF cable as well.  There are certainly users who find, sometimes, better performance with ultraRendu-ultraDigital-SPIDF-DAC, but unfortunately the only way to find out is to try it.  If you do decide to try the ultraDigital, just like anything it is important to give it  a good power supply (and its own dedicated power supply, if you share a power supply between it and another component you will defeat the isolation inherent in the design).

[JFHSQT]

14 minutes ago, barrows said:

The input quality of every DAC is different, and each input is different as well.  I am a bit surprised that a a company such as Marantz would have a USB input implementation which is so bad that its performance cannot be made at least equal to all other inputs via the use of an ultraRendu, usually, IME, even DACs with so-so USB inputs perform very well when paired with a Rendu (even DAC which do not do so well via USB with a direct computer connection, usually a Rendu improves the USB performance a lot).

First I would make sure that you have tried everything to get the USB input on the Marantz to sound great with the ultraRendu: make sure you have a good USB cable, for example, although I would not suggest adding a bunch of USB doodads or anything.

 

On the addition of the ultraDigital and using a SPDIF input in the Marantz.  It is possible that this approach would result in better performance, of course this would depend on how good the Marantz's SPDIF input is and the quality of the SPDIF cable as well.  There are certainly users who find, sometimes, better performance with ultraRendu-ultraDigital-SPIDF-DAC, but unfortunately the only way to find out is to try it.  If you do decide to try the ultraDigital, just like anything it is important to give it  a good power supply (and its own dedicated power supply, if you share a power supply between it and another component you will defeat the isolation inherent in the design).

 

Thanks for the insight. I am not sure why the HEOS streaming SQ is superior to the USB on the Marantz, but it is a clear difference. I was hoping to try some other things before returning the uR... but I have talked to Marantz this morning and they implied that the SPDIF was going to be an even lesser quality input than the USB. So I wonder if there's just an issue with my ND8006. I've done a total reset on the unit and everything but clearly there is a more expansive soundstage and detail to the HEOS streaming - surprisingly even superior at the 16/44.1 streaming quality of HEOS over some of the MQA tracks I have streamed via Roon/uR/USB. But since ethernet via Sonore Bridge is still no better than USB, I believe it may just have something to do with the ND8006 unit itself.

[R1200CL]

16 hours ago, JFHSQT said:

 

Thanks for the insight. I am not sure why the HEOS streaming SQ is superior to the USB on the Marantz, but it is a clear difference. I was hoping to try some other things before returning the uR... but I have talked to Marantz this morning and they implied that the SPDIF was going to be an even lesser quality input than the USB. So I wonder if there's just an issue with my ND8006. I've done a total reset on the unit and everything but clearly there is a more expansive soundstage and detail to the HEOS streaming - surprisingly even superior at the 16/44.1 streaming quality of HEOS over some of the MQA tracks I have streamed via Roon/uR/USB. But since ethernet via Sonore Bridge is still no better than USB, I believe it may just have something to do with the ND8006 unit itself.

 

Could you try the $35 USPCB first maybe ?

Also the DC power cables is reported to make a huge difference.

 

I find it a bit odd, Marantz claiming their spdif has a worse implementation than the usb. And it’s normally the other way around for most manufacturers. 

 

(if you need an uD, PM me)

[vortecjr]

What power supply are you using with the Rendu?

 

[JFHSQT]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

I find it a bit odd, Marantz claiming their spdif has a worse implementation than the usb. And it’s normally the other way around for most manufacturers. 

 

I thought it was odd too. Almost like I didn't think the guy knew what he was talking about. I was using the UpTone 1.2 LPS with the uRendu and an Audioquest Carbon USB cable. 

[JFHSQT]

25 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

What power supply are you using with the Rendu?

 

I was using the UpTone Audio 1.2 LPS and an AQ Carbon USB cable. I did end up sending the uR back yesterday afternoon however after trying to do some final optimizations inside the Marantz (turned off headphone amp, etc) and some listening tests for another hour or so, both via USB and Sonore Bridge. It's almost like there is some Marantz filtering being applied to the internal streamer that doesn't get applied to the other inputs. It doesn't make sense really and Marantz wasn't any help. 

[vortecjr]

I would use an external USB to analog converter and set the Marantz to bypass mode so it only amplifies the signal.