Can Computers "Influence" SQ?

[kumakuma]

Just now, sandyk said:

Tom

 Other than the purely theoretical grounds that you love so much, what makes you think that he can't improve the exported data

AFTER it leaves his device, or if he runs it from battery, as well as improving the Signal Integrity AFTER it leaves his device ?

Have you ever personally tried using a USB Regen or Internal low noise USB  card using improved power, or perhaps the other means mentioned by 4est ?   USB Audio is capable of a vast improvement in SQ compared with straight from a USB port or Optical port to an affordable  DAC using a generic USB input.

Alex

 

My point was that you are prescribing medicine for an illness that doesn't match the patient's symptoms.

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, 4est said:

You are suggesting the OP to learn about power supplies and buy one/some.

 

 No. I am suggesting that he should do a lot more research before jumping in , perhaps reading some of the numerous posts and explanations by people like John Swenson in the Uptone and other forums.

 

Is his presumably SMPS supply capable of being earthed at the  0volts rail for example ?

If so, that would be a very cheap tweak to try.

[4est]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

 

 No. I am suggesting that he should do a lot more research before jumping in , perhaps reading some of the numerous posts and explanations by people like John Swenson in the Uptone and other forums.

 

Is his presumably SMPS supply capable of being earthed at the  0volts rail for example ?

If so, that would be a very cheap tweak to try.

Kumakuma has it, send right to the amp over the network. If that works, they are all set with a nice upgrade path if desired.

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

My point was that you are prescribing medicine for an illness that doesn't match the patient's symptoms.

 

 The "patient's" symptoms are RF/EMI related !!! 

Perhaps YOU should also try reading some of the excellent technical explanations and suggestions provided by John Swenson in the Uptone area of the Forum ?

Do YOU use any external SMPS PSUs with your own gear ?

 Then you may also benefit from trialling the earthing suggestions that John has posted, and have been verified to improve SQ by quite a few members . It will only cost you a little of your time, and perhaps nothing to try them ?

[kumakuma]

6 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Is his presumably SMPS supply capable of being earthed at the  0volts rail for example ?

If so, that would be a very cheap tweak to try.

 

An even cheaper tweak is to simply unplug the power adapter. A Macbook Pro will run for hours on battery life.

[4est]

7 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 No. I am suggesting that he should do a lot more research before jumping in , perhaps reading some of the numerous posts and explanations by people like John Swenson in the Uptone and other forums.

 

Is his presumably SMPS supply capable of being earthed at the  0volts rail for example ?

If so, that would be a very cheap tweak to try.

It's a lap top, I assume the OP has run off of just the battery, if not that should be tried as well.

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

The "patient's" symptoms are RF/EMI related !!! 

 

This may or may not be true. You have no way of knowing this based on the facts presented.

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, 4est said:

It's a lap top, I assume the OP has run off of just the battery, if not that should be tried as well.

 

Great minds think alike.

[4est]

Just now, kumakuma said:

 

This may or may not be true. You have no way of knowing this based on the facts presented.

I agree.

[sandyk]

Just now, kumakuma said:

An even cheaper tweak is to simply unplug the power adapter. A Macbook Pro will run for hours on battery life.

 

You are assuming that he doesn't have any other SMPS powered devices plugged in, such as a CD/DVD player etc.

Any SMPS powered device, even including LED lighting, a TV or STB, can cause audible SQ degradation.

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, kumakuma said:

Great minds think alike.

 Great minds ?

4est would be more than likely speaking here from experience.

This suggestion has been posted before on numerous occasions in this forum

[4est]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

You are assuming that he doesn't have any other SMPS powered devices plugged in, such as a CD/DVD player etc.

Any SMPS powered device, even including LED lighting, a TV or STB, can cause audible SQ degradation.

If I understand, you are suggesting they mind their power in general, and I agree. I still agree with kumakuma's suggestion first. It is simple and tells a lot for little.

[kumakuma]

8 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Great minds ?

4est would be more than likely speaking here from experience.

This suggestion has been posted before on numerous occasions in this forum

 

You are probably correct and my own experience of owning dozens of Macs over the years told me that your suggestion to install a Mac Mini power supply in a Macbook Pro made no sense at all. 

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

You are probably correct and my own experience of owning dozens of Macs over the years told me that your suggestion to install a Mac mini power supply in a Macbook Pro made zero sense at all. 

Quote

Can the computer have any influence to the overall SQ?

 

I  was suggesting that he read the thread at the attached link, where he would learn more about the problem, NOT race out and spend money.

 

[4est]

11 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

I  was suggesting that he read the thread at the attached link, where he would learn more about the problem, NOT race out and spend money.

 

At this point, the OP is questioning the computer, but it could easily be something else. If it still occurs over the network, all things USB are off the table. Optical has it's own issues and I don't recommend it unless they use a real glass cable. Those aren't cheap either.

 

A good test IMO. It has nothing to do with my own preferences. I am an outlier. LOL

[davide256]

On 10/25/2017 at 1:24 PM, Rounder44 said:

Hi,

 

First venture into purely digital music system. Ripped CD library and Tidal so far. Run through a Macbook Pro to a Hegel H90 Amp (Via USB)  to Focal 706's.

 

While for the most part the sound is great! But occasionally I get strange artifacts in songs. Trebles will get fuzzy. Not always the highest pitch tones, usually something that has a little bit of distortion maybe is accentuated. A Gibson Les Paul can sound a little too dirty sometimes. A sax will lose definition. Ive heard of some systems being tripped up by complex rhythms and this is a good description.Perhaps like when a pure black is shown on a screen how it pixelates even though the rest of the image is razor sharp to attempt a visual analogy.

 

So I am tracking down issues and discover a lot of it could be the actual file or Mac. When I plug headphones directly I can hear the issues so this eliminates the amp/speakers. But how much of it is file or actual Mac?

 

Can the computer have any influence to the overall SQ?

 

Thanks,

 

Rounder44

 I used to hear symptoms like what you describe with the PS Audio Dlink III DAC, cured when I bought a Metrum Octave. Who knows, maybe a Schitt multi-bit is the cure you need, comes with Eitr (USB generation 5) built in ;<)

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, 4est said:

A good test IMO. It has nothing to do with my own preferences. I am an outlier. LOL

 

It still won't hurt to investigate the possibility of earthing the  0 volts side of the presumably SMPS.

Following John Swenson's suggestion, I tried earthing the 0 volts side of my Teac STB, and it resulted in a small but worthwhile improvement with Audio exported via Coax SPDIF to the DAC in my main system.

 A decreasing voltage from using battery for hours at a time won't help with system stability, and should be a short term solution only , and as a guide as to finding where the problem originates. 

[kumakuma]

5 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

It still won't hurt to investigate the possibility of earthing the  0 volts side of the presumably SMPS.

Following John Swenson's suggestion, I tried earthing the 0 volts side of my Teac STB, and it resulted in a small but worthwhile improvement with Audio exported via Coax SPDIF to the DAC in my main system.

 A decreasing voltage from using battery for hours at a time won't help with system stability, and should be a short term solution only , and as a guide as to finding where the problem originates. 

 

Probably not quite as simple for the Macbook Pro as they have a special magnetic connector on the DC side:

 

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD565LL/A/apple-60w-magsafe-2-power-adaptermacbook-pro-with-13-inch-retina-display

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, kumakuma said:

 

Probably not quite as simple for the Macbook Pro as they have a special magnetic connector on the DC side:

 

Trust Apple to make simple things harder !

 A magnetic connector is a good idea, but it makes it harder to try John's suggestion.

With my STB, for example, I connected the earth wire to an RCA plug's "earth" side, which I then plugged into an unused RCA output socket of the STB.

That shouldn't however stop people like yourself from trying John's suggestion, which has received quite a few "thank you" replies from members.

What have you got to lose by trying it ?

[4est]

27 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 A decreasing voltage from using battery for hours at a time won't help with system stability, and should be a short term solution only , and as a guide as to finding where the problem originates. 

Precisely, and if I understand it, this is the purpose of this thread. If you are suggesting the OP modify theirs, I cannot get behind it at this stage. Sadly david256 could be right, it might be the DAC.

[kumakuma]

3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Trust Apple to make simple things harder !

 A magnetic connector is a good idea, but it makes it harder to try John's suggestion.

With my STB, for example, I connected the earth wire to an RCA plug's "earth" side, which I then plugged into an unused RCA output socket of the STB.

That shouldn't however stop people like yourself from trying John's suggestion, which has received quite a few "thank you" replies from members.

What have you got to lose by trying it ?

 

I don't think it would work in my environment. I go directly from my DAC to active speakers.

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, 4est said:

Precisely, and if I understand it, this is the purpose of this thread. If you are suggesting the OP modify their, I cannot get behind it at this stage. Sadly david256 could be right, it might be the DAC.

 

I couldn't find anything on the DAC that's in the Hegel amp suggesting that it's nothing special. The OP would probably do better with a standalone DAC.

[4est]

6 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

I couldn't find anything on the DAC that's in the Hegel amp suggesting that it's nothing special. The OP would probably do better with a standalone DAC.

It could easily be DAC essing/sibilizing from what the OP described.

[sandyk]

18 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

I don't think it would work in my environment. I go directly from my DAC to active speakers.

 

Does your DAC use an internal SMPS ?

 Perhaps you are simply too lazy to try something new, or perhaps you are  afraid that you may hear an improvement ?

 We can't have that happen can we, as it would decrease your credibility with mansr , Plissken and the rest of the anti Subjectivity mob ! 

 

[Rounder44]

Wow!

 

Thanks for the input! Lots to ponder and go over but here's what I'm dealing with.

 

Traded a Hegel H90 for the Rost with arguable a better DAC.

 

Macbook Pro plugged into same outlet as amp. Nothing else on this line.

 

Using Audirvana to play mostly Apple Lossless via an Audioquest Forest USB cable.

 

The Rost has been a HUGE difference maker! I understand a better DAC but can not document.

 

Many issues I have tracked down to the actual files as local and Tidal same resolution have same "issues".

 

The Rost solved 99% of the issues as far as I can tell. Let it burn in and play more of the problematic files and see.

 

I don't mind a few inexpensive upgrades like the Schitt device but will investitaget further and read the articles suggested.

 

Thanks!

 

R44