Michael Lavorgna strikes back.......

[Madra]

49 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

ML is a liar. He makes shit up, won't validate his superior hearing. Has no clue how Ethernet in general works. 

 

When an engineer from Silicon Graphics starts correcting ML and John Swenson on how CPU caching works, and ML finds himself in a no win situation he simply bans that member. Same thing he did to Archimago. 

 

He's a hack through and through. 

I do not want to sound like defending ML, I am not.

But I think you are expecting ML to be something he is not. I may be wrong, but i believe he is more Art than Engineering oriented. He caters for a different yet significant readership who is less interested in how things work or measure.

ML merely reports on how he hears it, and not in an very imformative way if you ask me.

I fail to see why an Engineer from Silicon Graphics will go to “Audiostream” to discuss such technical matters given the nature and orientation of the site. 

[Madra]

33 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

many CA members are engineers, hence the detailed and in depth analysis of mechanisms affecting audio reproduction

 

many CA members are engineers, hence the lack of well socialized and civil interactions

 

I went to one of the xITs for undergrad, and trust me this is an inborn trait

Hehehehe.

I studied Architecture and for a weird reason, we and Engineers were part of the same Faculty. 

They sure were accused to be as per your description!

 

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, Madra said:

Hehehehe.

I studied Architecture and for a weird reason, we and Engineers were part of the same Faculty. 

They sure were accused to be as per your description!

I studied EE at KTH in Stockholm. They offer degrees in engineering and architecture, nothing else. Ironically, the building housing the architecture faculty was voted the ugliest in the city. It later burned down.

[plissken]

30 minutes ago, Madra said:

I do not want to sound like defending ML, I am not.

But I think you are expecting ML to be something he is not.

 

Honest...

30 minutes ago, Madra said:

ML merely reports on how he hears it

 

Including hearing things that aren't there.

30 minutes ago, Madra said:

I fail to see why an Engineer from Silicon Graphics will go to “Audiostream” to discuss such technical matters given the nature and orientation of the site. 

 

That's on you then I guess. I fail to see why someone that worked on bare metal CPU's, understands how it works, wouldn't correct ML and Swenson on spreading falsehoods. I'm glad people of that caliber will step forward and correct the FUD.

 

Here is the thread. John Sully is the Engineer.

[Ralf11]

did the roof on the building housing the architecture faculty leak?

 

They called FLW's nice looking thing Falling Water for a reason...

[Madra]

31 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

did the roof on the building housing the architecture faculty leak?

 

No. It was a 1920 building, with red tiles pitched roof. As low tech as they get.

[Madra]

1 hour ago, plissken said:

 

Honest...

 

Including hearing things that aren't there.

Would you care to elaborate?

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, mansr said:

I studied EE at KTH in Stockholm. They offer degrees in engineering and architecture, nothing else. Ironically, the building housing the architecture faculty was voted the ugliest in the city. It later burned down.

Did it have help?

[plissken]

18 minutes ago, Madra said:

Would you care to elaborate?

 

Sure:

 

Ethernet is a data cable and not an audio cable. Many devices highly buffer the data. Take current Naim streamers for example. You can pull the Ethernet cable and the music will still play for several minutes.

 

Take Tidal. On a Windows machine and a decent high throughput connection, start playback, wait 10 seconds and pull the Ethernet plug. The entire track will play.

 

Take JRiver. You can cache and entire album and pull the plug and the entire album will play back. 

 

The OS will even power down certain sections of the Ethernet PHY while not in use. 

 

If you are listening to music and the Ethernet cable is either not plugged in or the PHY is powered down and you think all sorts of magical unicorns are dancing, you are indeed making shit up. 

 

 

[vmartell22]

3 hours ago, eclectic said:

 

I can see your point and you make it well.

 

As a Usenet veteran, I remember some of the completely unmoderated epic flame wars on rec.audio.opinion between George M Middius and Arny Kreuger. They would go on for hundreds of posts.  Now that group was a vile place but it made me immune to the type of skirmish you see on here.

 

I too remember with fondness of Arnie Krueger - what ever happened to him? He actually went as far as publicly debate John Atkinson - that was epic.

 

v

[Don Hills]

7 minutes ago, vmartell22 said:

 

I too remember with fondness of Arnie Krueger - what ever happened to him? ...

He's still around.He posts regularly on HydrogenAudio and probably other places.

[firedog]

On 10/10/2017 at 8:25 PM, esimms86 said:

And Firedog, I hear what you're saying but they also say that, under Mussolini, the trains ran on time.

 Just noticed this quote. Did you know that truism has been checked and found not to be true? 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rear-window-making-italy-work-did-mussolini-really-get-the-trains-running-on-time-1367688.html

https://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/11/the-problem-with-mussolini-and-his-trains/507764/

http://professorbuzzkill.com/did-mussolini-make-the-trains-go-choo-choo/

[marce]

13 hours ago, plissken said:

 

Honest...

 

Including hearing things that aren't there.

 

That's on you then I guess. I fail to see why someone that worked on bare metal CPU's, understands how it works, wouldn't correct ML and Swenson on spreading falsehoods. I'm glad people of that caliber will step forward and correct the FUD.

 

Here is the thread. John Sully is the Engineer.

That's the thread that I got me banned from Audiostream, LOL.

[plissken]

1 hour ago, marce said:

That's the thread that I got me banned from Audiostream, LOL.

 

The more technically correct the rebuff is to Lavorgna's made up BS the quicker the ban. Scully, Archimago, KirkMC, You. The list goes on. 

 

 

[marce]

At least I am in famous company...

Though I do see a pattern we were obviously not sycophantic enough to the great ML.

[plissken]

14 minutes ago, marce said:

 

[esimms86]

4 hours ago, firedog said:

 Just noticed this quote. Did you know that truism has been checked and found not to be true? 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rear-window-making-italy-work-did-mussolini-really-get-the-trains-running-on-time-1367688.html

https://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/11/the-problem-with-mussolini-and-his-trains/507764/

http://professorbuzzkill.com/did-mussolini-make-the-trains-go-choo-choo/

So all propaganda and lies. Resonates with the current political climate here in the US. End of political statement. I return you now to Computer Audio.

 

BTW, I also made a factual reply which was deleted, along with me being banned from Audiostream.

[John_Atkinson]

On 1/30/2018 at 5:20 PM, Milt99 said:

I've met Charlie Hanson and talked to him at length. Great guy. Brilliant guy.

 

A brilliant guy, yes, but his name was Hansen, not Hanson.

 

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

[kumakuma]

12 minutes ago, John_Atkinson said:

 

A brilliant guy, yes, but his name was Hansen, not Hanson.

 

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

 

Thank you for the correction, Mr. Atkinsen.

[motberg]

On 1/30/2018 at 9:00 PM, plissken said:

 

Sure:

 

Ethernet is a data cable and not an audio cable. Many devices highly buffer the data. Take current Naim streamers for example. You can pull the Ethernet cable and the music will still play for several minutes.

 

Take Tidal. On a Windows machine and a decent high throughput connection, start playback, wait 10 seconds and pull the Ethernet plug. The entire track will play.

 

Take JRiver. You can cache and entire album and pull the plug and the entire album will play back. 

 

The OS will even power down certain sections of the Ethernet PHY while not in use. 

 

If you are listening to music and the Ethernet cable is either not plugged in or the PHY is powered down and you think all sorts of magical unicorns are dancing, you are indeed making shit up. 

 

so there are no possible effects to having a 25+ foot cable hanging from your system picking up RFI or EMI ?

(I do not think the solution of disconnecting the cable during playback would work well in my next setup planned with a SMS200...)

 

 

[motberg]

1 minute ago, motberg said:

 

Sure:

 

Ethernet is a data cable and not an audio cable. Many devices highly buffer the data. Take current Naim streamers for example. You can pull the Ethernet cable and the music will still play for several minutes.

 

Take Tidal. On a Windows machine and a decent high throughput connection, start playback, wait 10 seconds and pull the Ethernet plug. The entire track will play.

 

Take JRiver. You can cache and entire album and pull the plug and the entire album will play back. 

 

The OS will even power down certain sections of the Ethernet PHY while not in use. 

 

If you are listening to music and the Ethernet cable is either not plugged in or the PHY is powered down and you think all sorts of magical unicorns are dancing, you are indeed making shit up. 

so there are no possible effects to having a 25+ foot cable hanging from your system picking up RFI or EMI ?

(I do not think the solution of disconnecting the cable during playback would work well in my next setup planned with a SMS200...)

[plissken]

1 hour ago, motberg said:

so there are no possible effects to having a 25+ foot cable hanging from your system picking up RFI or EMI ?

(I do not think the solution of disconnecting the cable during playback would work well in my next setup planned with a SMS200...)

 

Read the "The Antenna Myth" by Siemons.

 

CAT6 UTP is basically noise immune up to 30 MEGA hertz. It's CMNR and there are transformer couplings at both the switch and the NIC card.

 

Plus I put a $233 per foot Nordost Heimdall II (3 footer) up against $0.30 a foot CAT5e (315 foot) threw that under a running microwave and then proceeded to capture the output into an ADC, post it here at CA and no one could tell when the cables were swapped.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, plissken said:

threw that under a running microwave and then proceeded to capture the output

I love the way that reads :~)

[vmartell22]

1 hour ago, plissken said:

 

Read the "The Antenna Myth" by Siemons.

 

CAT6 UTP is basically noise immune up to 30 MEGA hertz. It's CMNR and there are transformer couplings at both the switch and the NIC card.

 

Plus I put a $233 per foot Nordost Heimdall II (3 footer) up against $0.30 a foot CAT5e (315 foot) threw that under a running microwave and then proceeded to capture the output into an ADC, post it here at CA and no one could tell when the cables were swapped.

 

 

 

I posted this over at part-time audiophile in the discussion of a Nordost ethernet cable review:

 

Quote

Any functioning, up to standard ethernet cable is an expression of solid science and engineering principles with the purpose of transmitting error free *data* from A to B, without the nature of the data mattering at all. Whether music or a patient’s vital stats, a functioning up to standard cable will deliver the exact data over to B. Given that A== B, the interpretation at the target (B) will be the same. Whether is audio or anything else. The science behind this is not a belief; we know based on current science what is the accepted true of the behaviour of the system. The nature of science allows for it to be challenged and updated based, of course on solid scientific evidence – which is the opposite of anecdotal. So far that hasn’t happened on this subject. It is fine that you hear a difference. It cannot be accepted as evidence that there is a difference.

 

 I repeat - there is nothing wrong with any individual hearing a difference. However (and I repeat):

 

It cannot be accepted as evidence that there is a difference.

 

v

 

 

 

[Spacehound]

On ‎31‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 1:56 PM, marce said:

That's the thread that I got me banned from Audiostream, LOL.

Everyone who disagrees with Lavorgna more than a couple of times  gets banned eventually. I pre-empted him and told him precisely where he could stuff his  'blog' as I deliberately called it. Though I didn't mention mothers.

 

The engineers on that thread are absolutely correct. My 30 years plus (now retired)  at IBM  designing and testing mainframe  computers, their operating systems, and a few other things,  says so. And we  (as a joint effort with Microsoft) did invent WAV after all   

 

The servers, network players, etc. made by 'hifi' manufacturers were and are a 'last ditch' response to the realisation that if  they did  not make such stuff they would soon  lose the 'source' component part of their businesses completely, maybe even including the DAC,   and be reduced to making only amplifiers and speakers, neither of which are what might genuinely be called  'advanced technology'.

 

What is more,  these 'network players' and servers are grossly overpriced, and limited. (You have to wait until the manufacturer decides to support some new streaming service, for example. Mine,  purchased in a foolish moment, doesn't even support Tidal yet.)  Also there is no way whatsoever that they can 'sound' better  than a regular PC or a Mac. And further, these various audio software  'optimisers' that claim to cut down the 'overhead'  are a total nonsense as audio is extremely trivial for even a low powered home computer. I run JRiver 23, Tidal, and Duet Display (thank you Chris for drawing my attention to it) and CPU usage has never exceeded 6% and that only when changing tracks.