Best USB cable to use between computer and dac?

[Mark Powell]

True, but of course, with a UDB cable, the 'audio band' is not involved. Nor are 'frequencies. At least, not in the terms we usually think of them.

 

But I admit I only had 'analogue' cables in mind.

 

[4est]

An amplifier oscillating at 1 mHz will sound like crap even if you cannot hear the 1 mHz tone. This sort of stuff can be pervasive and elusive. I'd not discount the effects in USB so readily. Analog too for that matter.

 

While we are on analog, balanced is no panacea either. It is all trade offs. Balanced circuitry requires twice the components. Dollar for dollar, single ended may be the better choice for many.

 

[tarquineous]

I'm sad to have to tell you, but balanced cables are the same game. They all sound different. But I do like them because they snap into the connectors, can be daisy chained without adaptors, and generally have a more expanded soundstage. Without going into it, single ended interconnects have some sonic traits that can be preferred.

 

Reduced costs ? No. I've spent about 4k this last year on XLR cables. An MIT Oracle, a Townshend Isolda, LAT AES digital, and Mogami (which is very good and inexpensive). No money saved, but I will say I am very satisfied with these purchases and the sound I am getting. Here you can save by using the specialty cables from source to preamp, then use a non expensive cable like the Mogami, making sure the cable does not degrade the sound,from preamp to amp. It's very rewarding once you get it right.

 

Back to USB cables. What a relief in price! (so far). I like the Audioquest Carbon very much. I have the Cardas, LAT, and AQ Carbon. This test was on a Nuforce DAC with a USB input.

 

So far, I have noticed the USB cables do not ruin the sound, like a poor analog interconnect will do. The sound perspective and vividness vary with the USB cables. The deficiencies of analog cables are largely not there with the USBs.

 

[tarquineous]

Agreed.

 

I'm liking the idea of a Music server that signals powered speakers wirelessly. All you would need is three power cords, unless they all ran on batteries.

For High Rez, an ethernet cable may be needed for the Music Server, otherwise it could be wireless.

 

[Julf]

"I'm sad to have to tell you, but balanced cables are the same game. They all sound different. But I do like them because they snap into the connectors, can be daisy chained without adaptors, and generally have a more expanded soundstage."

 

The big benefit of balanced cables (when used in combination with a true, balanced differential input stage) is a much better common mode noise rejection ability compared to a single-ended setup. There is a reason high-speed digital cables such as ethernet and USB use differential, balanced twisted pairs.

 

[Julf]

There used to be a heated debate about directionality of analog cables, but eventually the debate died down. Just curious, are there any digital (electrical, as opposed to optical) interconnects that are supposed to be directional?

 

I know some "directional" cables are directional in that the shielding is only connected at one end, so that there is a clear difference in noise/ground loop behavior, but I am talking about cables where the cable itself is supposedly directional.

 

No, I am not trying to start another flame war. I am just curious.

 

[4est]

Given your posting style to date, a flame war, maybe not directly, but that goal thinly veiled in some statements about "facts" that no one could ever prove to anyone- certainly plausible.

 

[Paul R]

They are labeled as directional, though whether that applies in reality or not, I do not know. Even the very inexpensive AudioQuest models ($5) I buy off Amazon are labeled that way. Never tried reversing them on purpose, but have accidentally hooked them up backwards and never noticed.

 

 

[Julf]

I think you just proved a point.

 

[Julf]

Thanks, Paul!

 

Indeed, on their web site they state "AudioQuest cables are marked for direction. With other cables it might be necessary to simply listen to the cables in one direction and then the other. The difference will be clear-in the correct direction the music is more relaxed, pleasant and believable. While cable directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that the molecular structure of drawn metal is not symmetrical, providing a physical explanation for the existence of directionality."

 

Interestingly they make no distinction between digital and analog cables, but in the case of their mixed multimedia cable, they do say "When using the VDM-XR cable for digital audio, please be sure to observe the directional arrows (input or output arrow on each connector). Video is not sensitive to directionality."

 

So direction only matters for sound, but not video?

 

[Paul R]

So direction only matters for sound, but not video?

 

Honestly, I have not got a clue. I think that perhaps electrical cables do become more or less directional with usage, as I can easily tell when a broken in set of speaker cables is reversed. It seems possible to me some operator comes into effect over time.

 

My guess would be that cables come labeled partly to help the consumer be consistent, and partly as a marketing gimmick. I understand Audioquest gold plates connectors on their low end cables not for any sonic reason, but because customers expect them to. Perhaps there is a similar reason involved with this.

 

-Paul

 

 

[tarquineous]

Most cable manufacturers will put a direction arrow on the cable. With XLR cables, the connectors only plug in one direction, so they cannot be reversed.

Some people obsess over directionality, even with fuses. I've tried it, and it's not worth the bother, although I have heard very small differences. I have no proof, but I believe break in takes away most, if any differences.

Capacitors sound a little different when reversed, but they are that way by reason of their construction. One side is connected to the inner end of a rolled foil, the other side to the outer end of the foil.

By comparison, the difference I hear by reversing wires, is about 1/5th of what I hear with capacitors. In other words, very very little.

 

[Julf]

"With XLR cables, the connectors only plug in one direction, so they cannot be reversed."

 

That is of course mostly true for USB too - I guess that is why there hasn't been much of ab obsession with the directionality.

 

 

[Mark Powell]

I was (and am) a skeptic. I communicated with Synergistic and became curious rather than skeptical. Might have even bought one. Until I saw the price.

 

But 5000 dollars plus for an interconnect (that was enough, didn't check USB) is utter and total insanity (of the buyers). So I am a skeptic again.

 

[Mark Powell]

Of an AC signal? It goes, for example, to my speakers and back again (most of it, some is heat in the speaker coil). Goes around one way, cone moves out, goes around the other way, cone moves in.

 

Directionality has got to be a nonsense.

 

[tarquineous]

I agree. It's a waste of time.

 

[Julf]

"Directionality has got to be a nonsense."

 

Well, I think that is why debates about directionality pretty much died out years ago. But digital interconnects seem to provide an opportunity to re-introduce a lot of old audiophile lore.

 

[One and a half]

Well, the 2cores D+ D- and GND form the circuit in a digital cable that's important to keep to the receiver as these are signals.

 

The metal case on the A plug that goes in the computer end is the GND of the PC. The metal case of say the B part forms part of the continued GND connection, so the two GNDS of the DAC and computer are tied together hopefully to reduce hum. It's good to have some kind of standard connection at the source, otherwise we end up with connector hell as encountered on AVRs.

 

Analog audio connects can be directional, but this is more to do with hum reduction, since in an unbalanced connection, such as RCA types, the chances of hum injection are high, since you have a difference of earth potential between the receiver and the transmitter.

 

The analog interconnect then has the shield connected at one end only, usually at the amplifier end.

 

Anything to do with crystals growing one way and being directional is the natural progression of water interacting with rock/stone in caves over millennia or some other non conductive materials to the delight of people who frequent caves, or underwater springs in the sea.

 

[Julf]

"The analog interconnect then has the shield connected at one end only, usually at the amplifier end."

 

Exactly. As I wrote in my initial posting, "I know some "directional" cables are directional in that the shielding is only connected at one end, so that there is a clear difference in noise/ground loop behavior, but I am talking about cables where the cable itself is supposedly directional."

 

So I was specifically interested in why we haven't (yet) seen the claims related to the crystals and caves generalized to digital interconnects. I guess the fact that non-optical cables automatically have a connector-enforced direction has forestalled that whole debate.

 

[One and a half]

you have given the cable manufacturers ideas that will crystallise to profits.

 

[Julf]

 

 

[Paul R]

Hey Mark-

 

I understand your thinking. So let's pose a little experiment. Anyone can try this by the way, but IIRC, you are using home built speaker cables. This is off topic because I am talking about speaker cables.

 

As long as the cables have been in place and being used every day for say, 60 days, try reversing them end for end and see if you hear any difference.

 

Just to be upfront, I do hear a difference here. But I hear a difference anytime I muck with the speaker cables. Or if I don't use them for an extended period of time. YMMV!

 

-A/C signal or not. ]8)

 

Paul

 

 

[Mark Powell]

Shield at only one end in some 'analogue' cables, yes. It is sometimes useful to avoid ground loops. Personally I make up most of my 'analogue' cables and don't shield them at all. Not sure many manufactures do either. If they use a coax cable (bad idea) then the coax goes to the connector outer.

 

Why bad idea? I think having the ground and signal wire of different construction might be 'bad' with an AC signal, which is what audio is. Don't have any evidence for it though.

 

I don't shield because I consider it a pointless complication. Except for the lead from a phone cartridge I have not heard and hum yet, even with my ear to a speaker.

 

Other than 'one end connected' shielding, directionality remains a marketing point only.

 

[Julf]

"But I hear a difference anytime I muck with the speaker cables. Or if I don't use them for an extended period of time."

 

Could your connectors or cable ends be corroding/oxidizing?

 

 

[Mark Powell]

A piece of wire does not *know* whether it is a speaker cable or a USB cable

 

My speaker cable itself is not home made, but I put the connectors on. It is in fact Naim cable, purchased off the reel. (I was going to buy a Naim power amp, but changed my mind as it was insufficiently expensive and the McIntosh looked nicer) and is directionally marked, which I 'obeyed'. But I will always think it's nonsense on an AC signal.

 

Swapping them over will clean, or at least reseat, the connectors. I do that now and again and it does make a difference.

 

So, no test. The fact that my connectors are different and incompatible at each end has nothing to do with it of course. Nor that it is very cold in my shed at the moment.

 

Also I cannot reach the speaker ends without unbolting my spiked speaker stands from the floor. There is another idea for us all to worry about

 

PS: I am wholly logical and 'objective'. Thus I purchased my McIntosh tube amp because someone here recommended von Gaylord amps. I found them on a You Tube video of an AudioGon report and thought they sounded nice. Via Internet Explorer, and it was probably just AudioGon background music and not the von Gaylord amps at all. As an objectivist such trivia cannot possibly matter. Also my nearest von Gaylord dealer is several thousand miles away. The McIntosh dealer is 20 miles away.