Patatorz Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Hello @austinpop, I asked here : no feedback. same question on the gentooplayer thread bring a strange answer... i did not follow up on these 2 threads. I will try to deep dive in the eth tools. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Marcin_gps Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Hi Guys, I have a favor to ask you who have used the cards, please leave a review and star rating on the Polestar platform. Here is the link: Thank you in advance! Best regards, Marcin JPLAY & JCAT Founder Link to comment
mourip Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 On 2/6/2020 at 11:37 AM, Marcin_gps said: Current JCAT NET & USB Cards will not be updated / replaced In another thread @romaz is talking about XE versions of both cards now out in the wild... Whaazup? Change of direction? "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
Marcin_gps Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 hour ago, mourip said: In another thread @romaz is talking about XE versions of both cards now out in the wild... Whaazup? Change of direction? No change. My statement above is still correct. Current JCAT NET & USB FEMTO Cards will not be updated / replaced. XE (Xtreme Edition) is a higher line of products with a drastically improved performance, however at almost double price. mourip 1 JPLAY & JCAT Founder Link to comment
One and a half Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 If I could ask @Marcin_gps on an application re-config. I don't stream Tidal/Qobuz. Music files are stored on Win2016 single Xeon music server, Roon core. End Point is Ethernet Lumin UI. Lumin requires active access to the rest of the network, has DHCP, but would the PCIe serve as a bridge? Win2016 has routing capability, wonder if this could be put to use. Bit of a learning curve, rather keep the network on one side and the JCAT Net Femto on the other. Chain at the moment Router -> Switch -> JCAT port A [Bridged] -> JCAT Port B -> Baaske filter -> Lumin U1 Propose (will it work?) Router -> Switch -> Baaske filter -> Music Server Internal NIC JCAT Port B -> Lumin U1 AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Marcin_gps Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 53 minutes ago, One and a half said: If I could ask @Marcin_gps on an application re-config. I don't stream Tidal/Qobuz. Music files are stored on Win2016 single Xeon music server, Roon core. End Point is Ethernet Lumin UI. Lumin requires active access to the rest of the network, has DHCP, but would the PCIe serve as a bridge? Win2016 has routing capability, wonder if this could be put to use. Bit of a learning curve, rather keep the network on one side and the JCAT Net Femto on the other. Chain at the moment Router -> Switch -> JCAT port A [Bridged] -> JCAT Port B -> Baaske filter -> Lumin U1 Propose (will it work?) Router -> Switch -> Baaske filter -> Music Server Internal NIC JCAT Port B -> Lumin U1 Yes, of course, you can bridge motherboard ethernet port with the port on JCAT NET. JPLAY & JCAT Founder Link to comment
mourip Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 4 hours ago, One and a half said: Propose (will it work?) Router -> Switch -> Baaske filter -> Music Server Internal NIC JCAT Port B -> Lumin U1 This is similar to what I did until I got the EtherRegen switch however I bridged both Femto ports and disabled the internal port. It sounded great. I was very surprised at how the bass tightened up with the Femto card. Once I got the ER from Uptone my config changed. I had originally thought that I would keep my Femto card bridged and just put the ER between the server and endpoint but instead I opted to follow Uptone's suggestion. I disabled the bridged ports on my server and now just use one port out to the ER A side which also connects to my LAN. The ER and the Femto make a wonderful combination. Somehow very synergistic. Marcin_gps 1 "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
Marcin_gps Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 4 hours ago, mourip said: This is similar to what I did until I got the EtherRegen switch however I bridged both Femto ports and disabled the internal port. It sounded great. I was very surprised at how the bass tightened up with the Femto card. Once I got the ER from Uptone my config changed. I had originally thought that I would keep my Femto card bridged and just put the ER between the server and endpoint but instead I opted to follow Uptone's suggestion. I disabled the bridged ports on my server and now just use one port out to the ER A side which also connects to my LAN. The ER and the Femto make a wonderful combination. Somehow very synergistic. The synergy does not surprise me as the ER uses crystek clock too. mourip 1 JPLAY & JCAT Founder Link to comment
One and a half Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 13 hours ago, Marcin_gps said: Yes, of course, you can bridge motherboard ethernet port with the port on JCAT NET. Thanks and to @mourip, will experiment this weekend. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
One and a half Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 On 4/2/2020 at 11:40 PM, mourip said: This is similar to what I did until I got the EtherRegen switch however I bridged both Femto ports and disabled the internal port. It sounded great. I was very surprised at how the bass tightened up with the Femto card. Once I got the ER from Uptone my config changed. I had originally thought that I would keep my Femto card bridged and just put the ER between the server and endpoint but instead I opted to follow Uptone's suggestion. I disabled the bridged ports on my server and now just use one port out to the ER A side which also connects to my LAN. The ER and the Femto make a wonderful combination. Somehow very synergistic. I couldn't Ethernet bridge the internal NIC to the Femto, initially it would accept (Ethernet to Ethernet 4), then on a reboot, the existing Bridge on the Femto was maintained, (Ethernet 3-4). The PC had net access which is fine, but the Lumin was showing a disconnected mode, easy to spot "Network error". The connections now are: Router -> Switch -> Baaske filter -> JCAT port A (Ethernet 3) [Bridged] -> JCAT Port B (Ethernet4) -> Lumin U1 I need network access to monitor the server and to add/subtract new music files. When playing music, "Atomic Blonde" OST Redbook, the two internal NICS (Ethernet and Ethernet 2) were disabled on the fly, and wow, the bass improved, deeper, very nice tip there thank you! mourip 1 AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
bodiebill Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Two net card FEMTO newbie questions (mine is now en route from Poland to The Netherlands): First my current setup: modem/router => MikroTik SFP switch => fiber => Intel fiber NIC1 => HQPe server => Intel fiber NIC2 => MikroTik SFP switch => CAT6 => NAA endpoint Before this, everything was fiber, but I prefer the sound with copper downstream. (1) I am planning to mount the net card FEMTO in the audio PC, assuming that it would have the most effect downstream. Is that a good idea? Or should I put it in the control PC (which is optically isolated and in another room) and use it instead of the dual fiber NIC? (2) Assuming I put it in the audio PC, and given that the control PC has the dual fiber NIC (+ stock RJ45 NIC), how would I go about bridging? Any advice welcome! audio system Link to comment
bodiebill Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Update to the previous: I managed to bridge the two SFP ports of the Intel dual fiber NIC on the HQP server PC with Audilinux. SFP port 1 is connected to the main router and port two semi-directly to the NAA endpoint in another room, as follows: main modem router => CAT7 => MikroTik SFP switch => fiber => Server SFP NIC 1 <BRIDGED WITH> SFP NIC2 => fiber => 2nd MikroTik SFP switch => CAT6 => NAA endpoint No doubt the sound has improved, and this is even without the JCAT net card FEMTO! I like the idea that there is some optical isolation, although I prefer copper downstream SQ-wise. Still planning to put the net card FEMTO (when it arrives in a couple of days) in the NAA endpoint PC, but correct me if I am wrong to do so... Marcin_gps 1 audio system Link to comment
bodiebill Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, bodiebill said: Update to the previous: I managed to bridge the two SFP ports of the Intel dual fiber NIC on the HQP server PC with Audilinux. SFP port 1 is connected to the main router and port two semi-directly to the NAA endpoint in another room, as follows: main modem router => CAT7 => MikroTik SFP switch => fiber => Server SFP NIC 1 <BRIDGED WITH> SFP NIC2 => fiber => 2nd MikroTik SFP switch => CAT6 => NAA endpoint No doubt the sound has improved, and this is even without the JCAT net card FEMTO! I like the idea that there is some optical isolation, although I prefer copper downstream SQ-wise. Still planning to put the net card FEMTO (when it arrives in a couple of days) in the NAA endpoint PC, but please correct me if I am wrong to do so... audio system Link to comment
bodiebill Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Today I received the net card FEMTO. Too early for SQ impressions: I will give it some time to burn in first. As regards the external PSU, it says 5V/2A min. Of course more than 2A will be OK, but would a higher voltage be OK also? And if yes what would be the maximum voltage? Marcin_gps 1 audio system Link to comment
Dev Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, bodiebill said: Today I received the net card FEMTO. Too early for SQ impressions: I will give it some time to burn in first. As regards the external PSU, it says 5V/2A min. Of course more than 2A will be OK, but would a higher voltage be OK also? And if yes what would be the maximum voltage? The maximum voltage is 5v. No more than that. You can have more than 2A rating. Marcin_gps 1 Link to comment
Patatorz Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Are you sure about the 2A ? I have in mind min 1.2A but perhaps I have a bad memory. Today I use 2 netcard femto external powered by one keces p8 through the usb so clearly not 2A and an uptone js2 (2A not a problem) Blog / Forum Link to comment
StreamFidelity Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I also use a Keces P8 to power the JCAT NET Femto Card. These are 5V/1A maximum. And it works very well. But I only use one port. I also disabled everything unnecessary in the network adapter according to the JCAT manual. Grigg Audio Solutions Owner StreamFidelitys Setup: Sonus Faber Amati Futura | T+A M10 | T+A SDV 3100 HV | fis Audio PC & Server | GigaWatt PC4-EVO+ | JCAT OPTIMO S ATX | FARAD Super10 & Super3 | Keces P8 | Afterdark Buffalo Switch | fis Audio Cables | Solidsteel HJ-3 / HY-A | Formfeld 1 | ABSORBER LIGHT | Link to comment
Marcin_gps Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 1 hour ago, StreamFidelity said: I also use a Keces P8 to power the JCAT NET Femto Card. These are 5V/1A maximum. And it works very well. But I only use one port. I also disabled everything unnecessary in the network adapter according to the JCAT manual. For one port it might be enough, but definitely not for 2. Best regards, Marcin StreamFidelity 1 JPLAY & JCAT Founder Link to comment
bodiebill Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 1 hour ago, StreamFidelity said: I also disabled everything unnecessary in the network adapter according to the JCAT manual. Is it needed and/or possible to change such settings under Linux? audio system Link to comment
Patatorz Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Already asked but Marcin Mentioned he has Limited knowledge on Linux. Antonello (Gentooplayer) said that you can play with kernel in gentoo. There is also other parameters but very unclear compared to what Marcin propose on Windows. Piero (Audio-Linux) : no feedback. I would need to deep dive next week to try to make some correspondance between the windows parameters and Linux parameters. Blog / Forum Link to comment
bodiebill Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Patatorz said: Already asked but Marcin Mentioned he has Limited knowledge on Linux. Antonello (Gentooplayer) said that you can play with kernel in gentoo. There is also other parameters but very unclear compared to what Marcin propose on Windows. Piero (Audio-Linux) : no feedback. I would need to deep dive next week to try to make some correspondance between the windows parameters and Linux parameters. Thanks. Maybe less is needed on Linux to tune down network parameters. Similar to the fact that the likes of AO and Fidelizer are not needed for Linux. Just guessing... audio system Link to comment
One and a half Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Windows 2016 discussion below. Bridging revisited, wasn't happy with the outcome of just using the JCAT NET Femto card for incoming and outgoing connections to Lumin. This allowed noise pollution from the network to be connected directly to the output of the JCAT Net Femto Card. OK, each input probably has transformers, but common mode noise can easily pass over. By sepearating the clean and dirty sides with software then gives the JCAT NET Femto to work at its full potential. 5V dc is supplied by a Kingrex Linear supply. This maybe changed out later with an Acopian linear Gold box PSU, the big plus with those is the compensation sensing circuits that allow for extended cable lengths. The concept is explained here. Found a different page on how to bridge Ethernet adapters, and realised, like most computing commands, the old needs to be destroyed, before a new can be created, rather than change an existing concept. Deleted the current bridge of the JCAT (Ethernet 3 & 4) and created a new bridge between Ethernet and Ethernet 3. The bridge takes care of the DHCP for both incoming and outgoing connections. Wiring Router -> 24 port switch -> Baaske Isolator -> Media-Server Ethernet NIC JCAT Net Femto Ethernet 3 -> 25m Cat5e -> Lumin U1 Unused NICs - Disabled Works! I may substitute the Baaske Isolator with the Jcat model, when the XE version of the NET Card is released. This connection allows a single EtherRegen to be used between the JCAT and the Lumin, otherwise it would have needed two EtherRegen. SQ wise, need some time to listen, main thing is the connections are working fine. Marcin_gps 1 AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Popular Post bodiebill Posted April 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 12, 2020 Last week I received a JCAT net card FEMTO (JCF) and it lead to some experimenting that I would like to share here. For my dual Linux PC setup I had to make a choice whether to first put it in the server with HQPlayer embedded or in the NAA endpoint. I started with the latter as intuition told me that the card would have the most effect downstream. As shown below I was wrong (again 🤔). I had to use a riser cable as my Streacom does not allow for direct plugin of the card. Out of the box I immediately heard more detail with the card in the endpoint. However the sound was not yet listenable: classical violins where strident and harsh, and it lacked the holographic experience that I am looking for. This was to be expected (as others have written here), so I first let the card burn in for 4 days. The sound improved, but I was not happy yet. Some of the stridency was still there. For comparison I used a Beethoven violin sonata (opus 12-3, 2nd movement with Haebler and Szeryng) because it tests the soul versus stridency of the violin and credibility of the (to me) familiar piano sound as recorded by Philips. From the start I noticed that a good external power supply really makes a difference for the JCF, as expected, so for the comparisons below that remained a constant. For now I am using: iFi power 9VDC => DLS-HPULN LT3045 => 7.7VDC => (Chinese) LT3045 box => 5VDC. In the comparison table below, I is the initial setup with JCF in the endpoint. Time to try the card in the server in several setups, namely II to IX. For this I replaced an Intel dual fiber card by the JCF. I experimented with and without fiber and same for bridging. Bridging to me appears beneficial (notwithstanding Miska's advice against it for HQP-NAA). In Audiolinux I SW-bridged all 4 available server NIC's which includes the 2 JCF NIC's. It appeared that SQ improved as follows depending on which 2 NIC's were used: stock in & stock out << JCF in & stock out == JCF in & JCF out << stock in & JCF out so I am using the latter now. For now I have decided to keep setup IX -- although SQ-wise hard to distinguish from copper-only setup VI -- as it saves me the work of changing a long run of hidden fiber cables to CAT6 cables, and gives me the piece of mind of having some isolation between server and endpoint. Changing the net cards in the server also changed the fingerprint for the HQPe software, so I will have to ask Miska for a new license key after having verified that everything is stable. Reactions / similar experiences / suggestions welcome! austinpop, Marcin_gps and Exocer 2 1 audio system Link to comment
bodiebill Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 My previous post is a mouthful, so I want to add that the JCAT net card FEMTO in the end resulted in an important improvement in SQ. I am enjoying a very natural, full, richly detailed but musical, dynamic and spacious sound, which is a clear step up from my previous setup with fiber cards in both PC's. Marcin_gps 1 audio system Link to comment
austinpop Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 4 hours ago, bodiebill said: Last week I received a JCAT net card FEMTO (JCF) and it lead to some experimenting that I would like to share here. For my dual Linux PC setup I had to make a choice whether to first put it in the server with HQPlayer embedded or in the NAA endpoint. I started with the latter as intuition told me that the card would have the most effect downstream. As shown below I was wrong (again 🤔). I had to use a riser cable as my Streacom does not allow for direct plugin of the card. Out of the box I immediately heard more detail with the card in the endpoint. However the sound was not yet listenable: classical violins where strident and harsh, and it lacked the holographic experience that I am looking for. This was to be expected (as others have written here), so I first let the card burn in for 4 days. The sound improved, but I was not happy yet. Some of the stridency was still there. For comparison I used a Beethoven violin sonata (opus 12-3, 2nd movement with Haebler and Szeryng) because it tests the soul versus stridency of the violin and credibility of the (to me) familiar piano sound as recorded by Philips. From the start I noticed that a good external power supply really makes a difference for the JCF, as expected, so for the comparisons below that remained a constant. For now I am using: iFi power 9VDC => DLS-HPULN LT3045 => 7.7VDC => (Chinese) LT3045 box => 5VDC. In the comparison table below, I is the initial setup with JCF in the endpoint. Time to try the card in the server in several setups, namely II to IX. For this I replaced an Intel dual fiber card by the JCF. I experimented with and without fiber and same for bridging. Bridging to me appears beneficial (notwithstanding Miska's advice against it for HQP-NAA). In Audiolinux I SW-bridged all 4 available server NIC's which includes the 2 JCF NIC's. It appeared that SQ improved as follows depending on which 2 NIC's were used: stock in & stock out << JCF in & stock out == JCF in & JCF out << stock in & JCF out so I am using the latter now. For now I have decided to keep setup IX -- although SQ-wise hard to distinguish from copper-only setup VI -- as it saves me the work of changing a long run of hidden fiber cables to CAT6 cables, and gives me the piece of mind of having some isolation between server and endpoint. Changing the net cards in the server also changed the fingerprint for the HQPe software, so I will have to ask Miska for a new license key after having verified that everything is stable. Reactions / similar experiences / suggestions welcome! Great report, and kudos for the experimentation! Did you try a configuration - let’s call it X - which is the same as IX, except you bridged both JCF ports, while keeping the 2-switch chain between server and endpoint? My Audio Setup Link to comment
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