JCAT Net Card Femto

[simonklp]

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Summit said:

 

I got better sound by adding the JCAT Net Card in bridge mode in my system with an ultraRendu.

Thank you very much for your information.

 

But is there also any information about how the effect of this JCAT NET Card on SQ when compared to an optical network via a optical switch between PC with HQPlayer and the NAA?

 

The reason why I ask this is because I think that the effect of the NET Card is to reduce both jitter and electrical noise. But for the optical network, it can also reduce electrical noise by providing galvanic isolation. For jitter, some of the CA members claim that optical network induced additional jitter.

 

Therefore I am interested to know if this NET Card can improve the SQ when compared to the optical network. Thanks.

 

 

[simonklp]

16 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

 

There are few reasons:

1) Limited number of cards on the market and not many users posts feedback online

2) No hifi magazine reviews yet - there are only a few writers who are into computer audio & use desktop PC as a transport/music server

3) Market awareness is very low: everyone nowadays understands that USB chain needs to be upgraded, but almost noone is aware that the same applies to network. 

 

 

 

Actually, the NET Card will improve SQ also on a single PC even with the local library and USB Audio output if playback is controlled remotely (over network). It shows how sensitive this area is. 

Thank you for your information.

 

As I have also just asked above, how is the effect of the NET Card on SQ when compared to optical network? Thanks.

[Marcin_gps]

1 hour ago, simonklp said:

Thank you for your information.

 

As I have also just asked above, how is the effect of the NET Card on SQ when compared to optical network? Thanks.

I don't have good experiences with optical connections. They kill dynamics in my opinion. 

[tboooe]

On 12/17/2017 at 5:29 AM, Summit said:

 

I got better sound by adding the JCAT Net Card in bridge mode in my system with an ultraRendu.

 

7 hours ago, simonklp said:

Thank you very much for your information.

 

But is there also any information about how the effect of this JCAT NET Card on SQ when compared to an optical network via a optical switch between PC with HQPlayer and the NAA?

 

The reason why I ask this is because I think that the effect of the NET Card is to reduce both jitter and electrical noise. But for the optical network, it can also reduce electrical noise by providing galvanic isolation. For jitter, some of the CA members claim that optical network induced additional jitter.

 

Therefore I am interested to know if this NET Card can improve the SQ when compared to the optical network. Thanks.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

I don't have good experiences with optical connections. They kill dynamics in my opinion. 

I do not have a NET card (yet) but something happened over the weekend that got me to seriously consider getting one.  I currently have a dual pc setup with HQP and NAA.  I also use a dual fiber nic operating in bridge mode in my HQP pc and 2 FMC, 1 between my wireless bridge and HQP pc, and 1 between the HQP pc and NAA pc.  Here is the network chain:

 

Wireless bridge >> CAT 6 cable >> FMC >> fiber cable >> Port #1 of dual fiber NIC >> Port #2 of dual fiber NIC >> fiber cable >> FMC >> CAT 6 cable .> NAA pc

 

This weekend I had a little electrical mishap that blew out the downstream FMC so in order to keep playing music, I had to remove the FMC and bridge the mobo ethernet port of the HQP pc.  So my network chain became:

 

Wireless bridge >> CAT 6 cable >> FMC >> fiber cable >> Port #1 of dual fiber NIC >> mobo ethernet port >> CAT 6 cable .> NAA pc

 

In this configuration, I was amazed at how much more dynamic and energetic my system sounded (as Marcin described above).  This change has got me seriously considering removing the dual port fiber nic and replace it with another standard gigabit nic like the NET card.  I would then bridge it with the mobo ethernet port and use it between my HQP pc and NAA pc.   It would be ideal though if the NET card was able in a dual port configuration.  @Marcin_gps any plans for that?

 

@Summit I assume you used the NET card between your PC and Ultrarendu in bridge mode and the mobo ethernet port to connect to the rest of your network?

 

[tboooe]

EDIT...sorry I didnt realize the NET card is dual port....hmmm now I need to save some money.

[elan120]

11 hours ago, simonklp said:

Thank you very much for your information.

 

But is there also any information about how the effect of this JCAT NET Card on SQ when compared to an optical network via a optical switch between PC with HQPlayer and the NAA?

 

The reason why I ask this is because I think that the effect of the NET Card is to reduce both jitter and electrical noise. But for the optical network, it can also reduce electrical noise by providing galvanic isolation. For jitter, some of the CA members claim that optical network induced additional jitter.

 

Therefore I am interested to know if this NET Card can improve the SQ when compared to the optical network. Thanks.

 

 

I have some experience using FMC (MC220) in my chain, I had PC > FMC > NAA > iFI micro iUSB 3.0 > Singxer SU-1 > Holo Spring DAC setup for couple months, while there maybe some sound improvement but it was hard to detect, any improvement could just be placebo.  In the attempt to improve this setup, I tried using better power supply (LPS-1) to power downstream FMC, as well as using shorter optical cable, but the sound improvement seem to be the same.  After this experience, I decided to try direct connection from PC > JCAT Femto USB Card > iUSB 3.0 > Singxer SU-1 > Holo Spring DAC, and this clearly brought better result - better detail, more space between instruments, bigger sound stage..., and shortly later, I added IsoRegen before iUSB 3.0 with even better result.  With this experience, I decided to add JCAT Femto Net Card about 10 days ago, and was shocked (for the lack of better word) at the improvement.  First, I connected my NAS > WiFi extender > JCAT Femto Net Card using power from PCIe while waiting for my LPS delivery, and the sound quality improvement was very easy to detect, from the moment I ran this new configuration, the music just came alive, very lively, 3D, musical, not to mention the typical description of detail retrieval, sound stage dimension, and air/space between instruments.  I was expecting some improvement, but not to this level for sure.  Since then, I received and installed my JS-2 few days later, and JS-2 helped smooth out the sound even more, along with continued burn-in helped removing the tiny bit of harshness in the high frequency area.  The final change so far was connecting both NAS and WiFi Extender to JCAT Femto Net Card in bridge mode, this also has helped bring out improvement slightly. 

 

My experience with FMC only limited to MC220, but by reviewing the components used on the PCB, the switch mode power supply voltage regulator along with the crystal used, likely will induce much more electrical noise as well as jitter compare to JCAT Femto Net Card; if I have some time available later on, I might put my O'scope on the output of MC220 voltage regulator to see what level of noise it has, but my experience modding my SU-1 and other products show output noise for these switch mode voltage regulators typically are in low mV level, while good linear voltage regulators are in low uV level, and in addition, the high frequency noise generated from them.

 

Hope this helps, and as typical, this is my experience with my system...YMMV...

 

 

[Summit]

On 2017-12-20 at 7:32 AM, simonklp said:

Thank you very much for your information.

 

But is there also any information about how the effect of this JCAT NET Card on SQ when compared to an optical network via a optical switch between PC with HQPlayer and the NAA?

 

The reason why I ask this is because I think that the effect of the NET Card is to reduce both jitter and electrical noise. But for the optical network, it can also reduce electrical noise by providing galvanic isolation. For jitter, some of the CA members claim that optical network induced additional jitter.

 

Therefore I am interested to know if this NET Card can improve the SQ when compared to the optical network. Thanks.

 

 

 

The JCAT NET Card did reduce electrical noise in my audio chain that already has galvanic isolation both in the DAC, DDC and in the ultraRendu. With the JCAT NET Card the sound got notable clearer than while using the input and output on the mobo. With clearer I do not mean the sharper and more edgy kind of sound that you sometime get with some gear. It can sometime be a bit difficult to distinguish real reduction in electrical noise VS a more analytic and sharper sound, but the difference is really big in the long run.

 

With the JCAT NET Card the biggest difference was the clearer sound, other notable differences was enhanced ease and a bigger and more effortless presentation. The sound is not soft, it’s just flows with more ease and like @elan120 said the sound is more alive.

[Summit]

On 2017-12-20 at 3:31 PM, tboooe said:

 

 

I do not have a NET card (yet) but something happened over the weekend that got me to seriously consider getting one.  I currently have a dual pc setup with HQP and NAA.  I also use a dual fiber nic operating in bridge mode in my HQP pc and 2 FMC, 1 between my wireless bridge and HQP pc, and 1 between the HQP pc and NAA pc.  Here is the network chain:

 

Wireless bridge >> CAT 6 cable >> FMC >> fiber cable >> Port #1 of dual fiber NIC >> Port #2 of dual fiber NIC >> fiber cable >> FMC >> CAT 6 cable .> NAA pc

 

This weekend I had a little electrical mishap that blew out the downstream FMC so in order to keep playing music, I had to remove the FMC and bridge the mobo ethernet port of the HQP pc.  So my network chain became:

 

Wireless bridge >> CAT 6 cable >> FMC >> fiber cable >> Port #1 of dual fiber NIC >> mobo ethernet port >> CAT 6 cable .> NAA pc

 

In this configuration, I was amazed at how much more dynamic and energetic my system sounded (as Marcin described above).  This change has got me seriously considering removing the dual port fiber nic and replace it with another standard gigabit nic like the NET card.  I would then bridge it with the mobo ethernet port and use it between my HQP pc and NAA pc.   It would be ideal though if the NET card was able in a dual port configuration.  @Marcin_gps any plans for that?

 

@Summit I assume you used the NET card between your PC and Ultrarendu in bridge mode and the mobo ethernet port to connect to the rest of your network?

 

 

I use the NET card in bridge mode. I have tried other ways of connecting it and liked the bridge mode best with my uR.

 

I have never had any FMCs in my audio system and believe that the gain you my get from the fiber insulation (in theory) is small compared to the loss of using more cheap clocks and switching regulator etc that is often used in FMC.     

[simonklp]

10 hours ago, Summit said:

 

I use the NET card in bridge mode. I have tried other ways of connecting it and liked the bridge mode best with my uR.

 

I have never had any FMCs in my audio system and believe that the gain you my get from the fiber insulation (in theory) is small compared to the loss of using more cheap clocks and switching regulator etc that is often used in FMC.     

 

I am using fibre NIC instead of FMC on both the PC with HQPlayer and the Audio PC for NAA that is powered by a LPS. In other words, the fibre NIC on NAA draws the power indirectly from LPS.

 

For the clock on fibre NIC, I am not sure it is cheap or not. But it is another discussion about how much this clock affects the SQ, given the fact that asynchronous FIFO of NAA paired with HQPlayer provides maximum isolation between processing and audio reproduction which also achieves via asynchronous USB playback by DAC.

 

This is something that I am interested to know. Thanks.

[Summit]

On 2017-12-22 at 3:19 AM, simonklp said:

 

I am using fibre NIC instead of FMC on both the PC with HQPlayer and the Audio PC for NAA that is powered by a LPS. In other words, the fibre NIC on NAA draws the power indirectly from LPS.

 

For the clock on fibre NIC, I am not sure it is cheap or not. But it is another discussion about how much this clock affects the SQ, given the fact that asynchronous FIFO of NAA paired with HQPlayer provides maximum isolation between processing and audio reproduction which also achieves via asynchronous USB playback by DAC.

 

This is something that I am interested to know. Thanks.

 

I can only tell you what I have experienced and it is that reclocking and FIFO buffering both in the DAC, DDC and in the ultraRendu take you a long way, but what’s upstream still has a notable impact. Your use of fiber NICs is more or less the same approach as going with a NET card and shilded LAN cables, I think. Ultimately I would speculate that which design that sound best depend on implementation and components used in those cards (PSU, voltage regulator, clock etc).  

 

Btw by placing ferrets on my SPDIF cable the sound cleans up even more and make it more analogue.

[Marcin_gps]

On 12/22/2017 at 3:19 AM, simonklp said:

 

I am using fibre NIC instead of FMC on both the PC with HQPlayer and the Audio PC for NAA that is powered by a LPS. In other words, the fibre NIC on NAA draws the power indirectly from LPS.

 

For the clock on fibre NIC, I am not sure it is cheap or not. But it is another discussion about how much this clock affects the SQ, given the fact that asynchronous FIFO of NAA paired with HQPlayer provides maximum isolation between processing and audio reproduction which also achieves via asynchronous USB playback by DAC.

 

This is something that I am interested to know. Thanks.

 

This is a similar setup to JPLAY dual PC mode with Control PC doing most processing & Audio PC. Installing NET Card in either PC brings improvement. 

[thuandb]

There's recently an opportunity to install both JCAT Femto Net card and Femto USB card on a single PC, replacing mobo NIC, USB Ethernet adapter and PPA v4 USB card.  The JCAT duo have been here and in action for less than a week, but I feel they  outperform my dual PC setup.  It's both satisfying sonically and educational to be able to afford them that justifies the admission cost.  In such an excellent team of PPA fanless server, JPLAY and AO software, ifi audio iUSB and iGalvanic, adding the JCAT duo cards makes me doubt the necessity of dual PCs.  Having played less than 10 hours in a JPLAY/AO optimized Windows 2016 Core server, the JCAT cards really spoiled me (no, make it two of us, wifey and I) badly with their natural yet highly detailed SQ, captivating musicality.

 

Happy New Year, Happy listening!

[thuandb]

On 12/19/2017 at 7:06 AM, Marcin_gps said:

Actually, the NET Card will improve SQ also on a single PC even with the local library and USB Audio output if playback is controlled remotely (over network). It shows how sensitive this area is. 

 

It's so true.  I've been switching back and forth between PPA v4 USB card and JCAT Femto USB, JCAT Femto net card staying the same.  With the net card intact, even the PPA v4 sounds much better.  Later on the Femto USB card will go in for comparison.  Having them both is almost like having two different DACs.

[asdf1000]

On 24/12/2017 at 8:50 PM, Marcin_gps said:

Installing NET Card in either PC brings improvement. 

 

Hi Marcin

 

I understand this card doesn't work with an Intel NUC since the NUC only accepts mini PCIe

 

Are there plans to develop a mini PCIe NET card for the NUC?

 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

4 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi Marcin

 

I understand this card doesn't work with an Intel NUC since the NUC only accepts mini PCIe

 

Are there plans to develop a mini PCIe NET card for the NUC?

 

 

 

Hi Em2016,

 

You can use it with the NUC too with an adapter.

Here is a report from a customer that might be helpful to anyone who'd like to use the card, but his PC does not have a PCIe slot, only Mini PCI-E:

 

I received my card today and had zero issues connecting it to my mini-itx system.

Since my mini-itx doesn’t have a pcie slot, I had to purchase one of these ($17.75 + shipping USD):

 

The same applies to JCAT USB Card. 

 

BR

Marcin

[tboooe]

I am very much on the fence about the NET card.  Is there a way to get demo?

[Marcin_gps]

21 hours ago, tboooe said:

I am very much on the fence about the NET card.  Is there a way to get demo?

You can try it in your system for 2 weeks and if it's not to your liking, you can send it back for a refund. You will have to cover shipping both ways though. 

 

Best regards, 

Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

It gets interesting. Here the guy claims that the network stream sounds better than the internal SSD once the card was installed. 

[chauphuong]

Any chance the network card will work on this mobo?

[Marcin_gps]

12 hours ago, chauphuong said:

Any chance the network card will work on this mobo?

 

Of course - you can install it in any PCI Express slot

 

Best regards,

Marcin

[chauphuong]

Pls consider offering the net card in a box plus riser cables so that it can be used externally. I guess your sales will be up a great deal.

[Marcin_gps]

On 5/20/2018 at 6:05 AM, chauphuong said:

Pls consider offering the net card in a box plus riser cables so that it can be used externally. I guess your sales will be up a great deal.

 

Thank you - I'll think about it

 

 

Best regards,

Marcin

[Lansing801]

Hi there,

I just wanted to share my sound impressions regarding the JCat Net Card Femto. So far I only used it in single pc setup, but the improvement in sound quality was tremendous! Before I plugged in that card I already had the feeling that my setup was quite good sounding, but after switching to it, it showed how much blurr the sound still contained. The sound picture is so much more refined, focused and real. It is not only about more details in the music. When you listen to it you have the feeling that you listen to way less jitter. It is like removing a big curtain that was hanging in front of the speakers which is removed now. The blurr that frayed the sound beforehand is completely gone. After this the sound stage became so much more real, it really is incredible! Things are to the point, the new drive and rhythem in the music leads to a point where you just don‘t want to turn off the music again once you started with it.
This card is like a drug for audiophiles. To my ears it is THE way to go in the world of computer based sound systems!

[Marcin_gps]

Guys, here's an interesting experiment and I wonder if you can hear the difference from the YouTube video and what is your opinion in general about sound quality from lossless streaming services vs. locally stored files?

 

CD rip (FLAC 16/44) played from a local SSD vs. TIDAL HI-FI (FLAC 16/44). Via onboard LAN and via JCAT NET card.

 

 

[One and a half]

Interesting post this one on the comparison between Tidal and locally stored music. I listened to the music and the preamble by the presenter first, then stopped at the presenter's judgement to review the tracks. In every case when the Tidal version was played, the SQ took a dive and an increase in the annoyance factor, and couldn't wait for the change to a different track to take place.  This was listening on my laptop's in built speakers. I agree with the presenter's findings, and one of the (many) reasons that I don't continue to use the Tidal service.

 

The video would have taken some time to prepare and I commend the presenter's efforts. While I'm not convinced the microphones and recorders create more of an issue with their A/D, these differences didn't matter since the system didn't change and the SQ between the two sources are very clear.

 

Notes : I use a JCAT USB PCIe version for a few months now, and it's still installed, haven't needed the incentive to remove it, highly recommended.