Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer

[alvin1118]

On 7/2/2018 at 12:26 PM, luisma said:

Thank you Alvin, folks at Allo are trying to help me out troubleshooting, this has nothing to do with the Terminator DAC, it is an issue upsampling from Roon to Allo and there are many things that can be tweaked.

 

 

Glad to hear @luisma . I hope Allo team could get it sorted out.

 

On 7/2/2018 at 3:36 PM, rothosand said:

Hello Alvin,

 

To play music, I only use JRiver, and I didn't try another soft.

I should add that my problem is only from 24/48, 24/96 or 24/192 to the highest 24/352.8, but no problem when going from 24/192 to 24/176.4, for example.

 

So, when I want to play 24/352.8, and I am currently playing a 48kHz-multiple PCM track, I just have to previously switch to a 44.1kHz-multiple PCM track (44.1, 88.2 ou 176.4). No big deal, obviously, especially since I have very few DXD albums...

 

Anyway, if you could look into this and correct that problem with a firmware upgrade, that would be great !

Alright, let me test and get back to you.

 

 

[TubeLover]

New review just out from Audiostream!

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/review-denafrips-terminator-dac

 

JC

[luisma]

Had some time to test audio today, finally properly listening the terminator on my system. Nuc - USB cable - terminator - balanced cable - Yamaha as2100 Amp. I removed the allo bridge from the mix, for some reason I prefer the USB direct connection. With my project S2 I preferred the allo bridge. I guess the USB input on the terminator guarantees a better SQ when directly connected. I'm using exclusively NOS for all testing. 

Dsp up sampling from roon sounded good, I added HQP into the mix and let roon to play with no filters, better SQ with HQP, Roon does a pretty good job considering things but HQP is just a step above. 

Now pcm 384 VS dsd 256, well in my system (and I understand some other systems may be different) it sounds better to me with pcm, now my Nuc is doing dsd with the poly sinc shrt mp 2s due to cpu limitations so maybe going with better specs and better filter (sorry Jussi, oversampling) dsd may sound better. I will do some testing tomorrow with NOS off which I don't know how it will sound which brings a question. 

With NOS in theory termy won't upsample and should play native input whichever this may be. When in OS mode will it still oversample to max settings even if content fed is already at max rate dsd or pcm? Or will it oversample to meet the max settings? For example dsd64 will oversample to dsd256 or pcm 192 will be upsample to 384, and pcm384 or dsd256 will it be passed through transparently? 

@alvin1118 do you know?

Thanks 

[coach65]

I have the Pontus, and have a very simple setup. I don't have near the gear that you do. But when I switched from NOS to OS the music really opened up for me. NOS sounded dull and lifeless on my rig. I can only imagine what the Terminator in OS mode will sound like on yours.

Happy Listening.

[luisma]

May I ask, are you up sampling or playing native content? I think the Sq it depends a lot on these factors

 

 

[coach65]

Up sampling. All of my cd's are on a hard drive and I do stream Spotify.

 

[luisma]

8 hours ago, coach65 said:

Up sampling. All of my cd's are on a hard drive and I do stream Spotify.

 

if you are upsampling your content then I don't think NOS or OS would make any difference, I believe the DAC will leave it as is if it comes already at max settings therefore no matter the position of the button the DAC will be in NOS mode

 

Again I'm not sure of this maybe Alvin can jump in and provide some more info

[alvin1118]

Hello guys, 

 

Let me briefly explain the differences in NOS and OS.

 

NOS:

Non-oversampling. The DAC decode the native input data stream without altering it.

 

OS:

Oversampling. The DAC oversampling the PCM and DSD to its max sampling rate, i.e. PCM384 and DSD256 respectively, prior the decoding process.  If the input data stream is already at the max rate (PCM384/DSD256), the DAC pass through the signal.

 

This applies to DENAFRIPS Pontus, Venus and Terminator DAC.

 

Hope it helps!

 

Best,

Alvin @ Vinshine Audio

[luisma]

Thank you Alvin, your answer does help, and that's what I thought, if you are feeding upsampled content at Max settings it will let it pass transparently, therefore the NOS / OS is irrelevant.

 

And I guess if the content comes at PCM 192 or DSD 64 and it is in OS mode then it will indeed upsample to the max settings

 

[barrows]

@alvin1118,  any plans for Denafrips to release a really simple, super high quality DAC using only the DSD decoder with the most precise resistors, and leaving out all PCM stuff?  For those who prefer DSD oversampled to 256 in software, a simpler DAC at a more affordable price could be all that is needed.

[firedog]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

@alvin1118,  any plans for Denafrips to release a really simple, super high quality DAC using only the DSD decoder with the most precise resistors, and leaving out all PCM stuff?  For those who prefer DSD oversampled to 256 in software, a simpler DAC at a more affordable price could be all that is needed.

You can get something like that from Lampizator, I think.

[barrows]

15 minutes ago, firedog said:

You can get something like that from Lampizator, I think.

Lampi uses a different DSD converter approach.  I am asking for potential customers, personally I am in the process of building a DSC-2.6 from a PCB/module developed by Pavel Pogoda.  Just thinking that Denafrips has a nice approach with the rest of their build quality (power supplies, output stage), and simple DSD only version would allow those (who may not be DIY capable) to have a very high quality discrete DSD DAC for a very affordable price.

Holo audio does offer something like this as well...

[Ralf11]

slight OT...

 

barrows, do you have any thoughts on the D>A conversion that Accuphase uses in their high end CD players?

[barrows]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

slight OT...

 

barrows, do you have any thoughts on the D>A conversion that Accuphase uses in their high end CD players?

I know nothing about it?  Are they doing something interesting/different?  I would expect at least very good power supply implementation and output stages from Accuphase.

[audio.bill]

4 minutes ago, barrows said:

I know nothing about it?  Are they doing something interesting/different?  I would expect at least very good power supply implementation and output stages from Accuphase.

They've always designed with a focus on their excellence in power supplies and analog stages as barrows expected. In the past they used R2R DACs but more recently switched to ES9038PRO, both with multiple DACs operating in parallel claiming to maximize S/N ratio. They do achieve a very musical and engaging presentation.

[Ralf11]

some users on here reported their CD Players had better SQ than any streaming setup, so I looked at the Accuphase web page and found:

• MDSD type D/A converter using eight parallel devices

 

 

 

[luisma]

@alvin1118 Do you have any updates on the DSD512 update for the terminator? is this something we can expect to see soon or is it still in beta? would it be a DIY type of thing?

Thanks

 

[barrows]

On 7/16/2018 at 4:24 PM, Ralf11 said:

MDSD type D/A converter using eight parallel devices

That would likely be an ESS chip.  A single ESS 9038 chip has 8 parallel devices.

[luisma]

Without creating much of a stir which firmware are you guys using on your terminators? using CPLD for 1080 and 1099c

 

What's exactly the CPLD option?

 

But there is 2003be with 512 support (of course the DSP won't support it) but can it be applied regardless as long as you respect the DSD256 limit?

 

And there is a 2001 as well

 

 

[D2Girls]

On 7/22/2018 at 2:47 PM, luisma said:

@alvin1118 Do you have any updates on the DSD512 update for the terminator? is this something we can expect to see soon or is it still in beta? would it be a DIY type of thing?

Thanks

 

I'd also like to know @alvin1118

[lmitche]

Me too!

[niner93]

Count me as another owner that's waiting for DSD512.

[alvin1118]

Hello guys, there is no firm date yet. But I'm positive that it will be released by end of this year

[giordy60]

Hi Alvin
a question
but how does the terminator treat the dsd signal?
do you convert it to pcm before the exit stages?
thank you

[alvin1118]

On 8/18/2018 at 1:02 AM, giordy60 said:

Hi Alvin
a question
but how does the terminator treat the dsd signal?
do you convert it to pcm before the exit stages?
thank you

 

Hi @giordy60, 

 

DENAFRIPS DAC decodes DSD in its native format. There is no PCM conversion or whatsoever.

Some swear by the DSD decoding sound quality of DENAFRIPS DAC. In their opinion, DSD sounds better than PCM. 

 

To each his own, of course

 

Hope it helps!

 

Rgds,

Alvin