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Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer


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1 minute ago, Tintinabulum said:

 

Well my ears may have been fooled! At least I’ve listened. 

 

I’ve tried to read the comments about MQA but there too much hateful bile there obscuring the reasoned arguments. It’s like a pack of playground bullies, most of them without much to add and spoiling the discussion to a large extent.

 

I know you to be no fool but you don’t know that about me. I’ve read and listened and it isn’t sh*t, it’s music.

It is very difficult to the a valid comparison of MQA.  You need to be sure to have the original high res music file the MQA version was created from, otherwise you are just comparing different masterings, or (lossy) hi res vs CD.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

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10 hours ago, roberto2 said:

You will not be disappointed by this fabulous dac! ?

Roberto, thanks for the link.

Pretty sure I've read all of the Denafrips online reviews.

What strikes me is the consistent thread in all of them regardless of the reviewer's current system.

The Terminator just sounds "right".

Makes it hard not to say F it & give it a whirl even though DAC gear is in the midst of significant strides.

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3 minutes ago, rickca said:

Wow, ML doesn't usually just dump on a product like that.  I guess he's not expecting any potential ad revenue from Denafrips.

Or the TotalDACs could just be that much better in comparison.  Both of these are discrete ladder DACs, but the TotalDACs do use much better resistors in their ladders.

After all, price differential is quite large as well.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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He didn't explain how long the Terminator was braking in or how long he was testing. It could be fresh unit from manufacturer.

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1 hour ago, barrows said:

Or the TotalDACs could just be that much better in comparison.  Both of these are discrete ladder DACs, but the TotalDACs do use much better resistors in their ladders.

After all, price differential is quite large as well.

According to the specs from each website:

Total DAC 300 resistors in the array.  0.01% VAR Bulk Metal® Foil resistors from Vishay Foil Resistors.

Denafrips 500 resistors in the array. 0.005% high precision, laser cut 10ppm low thermal effect precision resistors.

The number of resistors is per channel array.

 

I understand specmanship and all of that and no single spec tells the entire story.

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I am by no means challenging the listener's opinions on these DACs but I cannot for the life of me translate the ridiculous audiophile babel-speak other than to say the Terminator's midrange sucked in their opinion.

 

And for godsakes don't be so lazy as to not convert the country of origin currency into a single reference.

The price listed for T+A is in euro, the Denafrips is flat out wrong no matter what but is shipped from Singapore

Border Patrol DAC SE                               1,350 USD
Denafrips Terminator DAC                      4,448 USD
totaldac d1-tube-mk2 DAC (€ 9,100) - 11,203 USD
totaldac d1-seven (€ 17,450) -              21,483 USD
 

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2 hours ago, Milt99 said:

According to the specs from each website:

Total DAC 300 resistors in the array.  0.01% VAR Bulk Metal® Foil resistors from Vishay Foil Resistors.

Denafrips 500 resistors in the array. 0.005% high precision, laser cut 10ppm low thermal effect precision resistors.

The number of resistors is per channel array.

 

I understand specmanship and all of that and no single spec tells the entire story.

The metal foil resistors in the TotalDAC are much better than the thin film resistors in the Denafrips, lower distortion, and lower noise.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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Based on reviews and information from some very well invested audiophile friends, I only wished I could afford one of the TotalDAC's, in particular the tubed version. Short of that, I hoped I would find a great value that would make up the difference, such as the Denafrips Terminator. Even if you don't take it at full value, this is an immense disappointment.

 

JC

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7 hours ago, barrows said:

The metal foil resistors in the TotalDAC are much better than the thin film resistors in the Denafrips, lower distortion, and lower noise.

The Terminator is supposed to have the second set of resistors acting as a correction for the distortion etc. The claim is that this enables them to use less expensive resistors w/out quality loss.

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My brother (senior Vice President at LA/Orange County Audio Society) used to have the total dac.

It required repair and he sold it.

Now he has the Terminator and it is his favorite.

I asked him if he prefers it to the total dac and due to the difference in time between dacs he could not give a definite answer.

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9 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Based on reviews and information from some very well invested audiophile friends, I only wished I could afford one of the TotalDAC's, in particular the tubed version. Short of that, I hoped I would find a great value that would make up the difference, such as the Denafrips Terminator. Even if you don't take it at full value, this is an immense disappointment.

 

JC

A single review, especially as "in-depth" as this one would not not persuade me to buy or not buy anything.

Yeah it would be nice if it was positive but I think you have to take it in context considering the source.

Everything suffers in comparison.

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8 hours ago, firedog said:

The Terminator is supposed to have the second set of resistors acting as a correction for the distortion etc. The claim is that this enables them to use less expensive resistors w/out quality loss.

A second set of resistors could increase precision of the R value, acting as an error correction, but it could not lower noise and distortion caused by the resistors themselves.  Remember the actual signal that you hear is running through  those resistors, so the sound signature of the resistors themselves is going to be audible.

Most experienced folks I know consider the naked foil resistors which TotalDac uses to be the most transparent resistors available in the world. These resistors cost about $15 each in small quantities, probably around $10 each in the quantities which TotalDAC purchases.  BTW, TotalDAC uses multiple sets of resistors depending on which of their models you are talking about, I cannot remember how many sets in each model, but I am sure the "7" uses multiple sets.  Details are at their website.  Denafrips has more total resistors, but they have a separate DAC element for converting DSD right?  It requires a whole other set of resistors in addition to the PCM ladder converter.

I do not "know" if the resistors are the reason for the differences in sound reported, but since they are the main element of an R2R DAC it does seem likely.  I doubt that TotalDAC would use such costly parts if there was no advantage to doing so.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

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@TubeLover, Please do not despair!  It is not advisable to base your purchasing decisions on a single review (not even a review, just a short listening session).  There are many reports of the Denafrips being an excellent DAC which performs way above its price point.  It is probably unreasonable to expect TotalDAC level performance from any DAC costing less than half as much, but that does not mean there is a problem with the Denafrips.

Any purchase like this should be tried in your system before committing to it.  Demand for the Denafrips seems pretty high right now, and I would advise you to go for it, and if it does not work out for you, sell it as nearly new, and save your money, and wait for a used TotalDAC to appear.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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1 hour ago, barrows said:

@TubeLover, Please do not despair!  It is not advisable to base your purchasing decisions on a single review (not even a review, just a short listening session).  There are many reports of the Denafrips being an excellent DAC which performs way above its price point.  It is probably unreasonable to expect TotalDAC level performance from any DAC costing less than half as much, but that does not mean there is a problem with the Denafrips.

Any purchase like this should be tried in your system before committing to it.  Demand for the Denafrips seems pretty high right now, and I would advise you to go for it, and if it does not work out for you, sell it as nearly new, and save your money, and wait for a used TotalDAC to appear.

 

This is exactly what i am doing, i ordered mine and it should ship by the end of this month, if the DAC does not get to my expectations i will sell it ASAP, but there is too much to win in this action specially when most users and reviews are high on this DAC, Mr. Srajan Ebaen gave it a BlueMoon award and to be honest, i don't trust too much on the final assessments of some "reviewers", most of the comments on this DAC are completely the other side of this one review result.

 

Cheers!

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1 hour ago, roberto2 said:

After reading this test I have printed it and put it in my toilets as I have finished my toilet paper. 

I agree.  But why feed such nasty stuff to your toilet?

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20 hours ago, roberto2 said:

After reading this test I have printed it and put it in my toilets as I have finished my toilet paper.

 

Right on! More toilet paper for you by the way:

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/totaldac-d1-tube-mk2-dac

 

Yup, ML has so little credibility any anonymous poster on Internet is infinitely more trustworthy than him. A guy who claims to own the totaldac d1-tube-mk2 told me the ML article above makes a very good point about this "music out" thing. Give me a break! The guy is obviously a brainwashed crony.

 

By the way, totaldac is how the name is spelled on the front panel of the DAC. Anybody spelling it like that you can immediately tell is an elitist x-D

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One last word from me on this "review".

A far more appropriate DAC-Off would've been with gear of similar price points.

Like something from dCS or even Chord.

Writing off a DAC 1/5 the price of the "winner" without any context whatsoever is really lame

and given the fact that this a professional site is totally worthless and to me shows the reviewer's pure bias

toward highest price == highest performance.

In my mind, the raison d'etre of ANY review site is to give the reader context and more than a single short sentence

that tries to show how clever the reviewer can sum up a listening experience rather than imparting useful info

& insights.

Total obnoxious fail.

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