Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer

[Ben-M]

On 13/12/2017 at 10:53 AM, Milt99 said:

A great sign would be if Denafrips offers an upgrade to current owners for 512 DSD capability.

 

On 14/12/2017 at 7:16 AM, rothosand said:

That is indeed the case, according to Alvin, from Vinshine Audio (worldwide distributor of Denafrips) :

"However, the dsd512 is not supported at the moment. We plan to implement it in 2nd quarter of 2018. Customer can purchase the DSP board to replace the existing one to upgrade."

 

Also according to Alvin, the DSP board upgrade will be a "for purchase" upgrade that the current owners can DIY replace at home. Price was $150-250, but I can't remember the exact price.

 

Ans new Terminator DACs sold after the DSP board upgrade release will come included with it. Alvin couldn't confirm if there would be any price increase, but I don't think there would be much of one for that kind of price. 

[levinsje]

It has now been almost 2 months since I received the Terminator and I am very pleased with my purchase.

Very analogue sounding and the bass is even better than before.

In many cases my digital sound through Tidal sounds very close to vinyl.

My best quality 45 RPM vinyl still sounds the best, however.

It is also hard for me to tell much difference between a good 16 bit recording thru Tidal and native DSD.

DSD sounds a bit smoother though.

I agree with my brother (who also has the Terminator) when he mentioned that he would not have got into vinyl if the digital music sounded this good.

Very highly recommended.

 

Jim

[Milt99]

Thanks, Jim.

You're not helping me though as I'm in the process of deciding on a DAC & have been "watching" the Terminator for quite some time.

j\k. The Terminator is on my short list.

As you surely know, there are a ton of options at all price points.

It's been a very iterative process so far.

If you don't mind me asking, what DAC did the Denafrips replace?

Ok, looked up the thread & saw the former DAC.

To get even nosier, what's in the rest of your system?

Sincerely, just curious. Not judging.

[levinsje]

My previous DAC was an Eastern Electric minimax supreme.

It is not in the same league as the Terminator price wise or sound wise.

The rest of my system is:

Sonus Faber Ellipsa speakers.

Coincident Dragon 211 monoblocks

Shindo Monbrison preamp

SOTA cosmos turntable/Kiseki purple heart cartridge

 

However, my brother Dave is the Senior Vice President of the LA/Orange County audio society and he also has the Terminator.

It is the best Dac he has had in his system and he had the total dac and new version PS Audio dac.

His system is at a much higher price point than mine.

[Milt99]

23 minutes ago, levinsje said:

My previous DAC was an Eastern Electric minimax supreme.

It is not in the same league as the Terminator price wise or sound wise.

The rest of my system is:

Sonus Faber Ellipsa speakers.

Coincident Dragon 211 monoblocks

Shindo Monbrison preamp

SOTA cosmos turntable/Kiseki purple heart cartridge

 

However, my brother Dave is the Senior Vice President of the LA/Orange County audio society and he also has the Terminator.

It is the best Dac he has had in his system and he had the total dac and new version PS Audio dac.

His system is at a much higher price point than mine.

You have a very nice system.

Thanks much for the feedback.

Glad you like the Denafrips as a source component.

I'm predisposed to value the source on the same level as speakers.

Certainly not inexpensive but it seems as it could be a serious price\value piece of gear.

It's at the very limit of what I can invest, hence my questions.

[levinsje]

Thanks!

I bought all of my equipment used (except the Terminator and cables) thru Audiogon which is the only way I could afford it.

In my experience the speakers are the most important with the source/preamp/amp coming in a close second.

The cables are important but I consider the last tweak.

 

Forgot to mention I use a SOtM SMS1000  music server with Roon/Tidal for digital.

I listen to that format 90% of the time.

 

You could also look into the model just below the Terminator as I heard it is also amazing and a much better price point.

 

Jim

[matthias]

9 hours ago, levinsje said:

In my experience the speakers are the most important with the source/preamp/amp coming in a close second.

Jim

 

Sorry Jim, I disagree,

the source determines the maximum quality level you can get from your system and is the most important. The more upstream component is always more important than the more downstream component.

 

Matt

[TubeLover]

On 1/22/2018 at 10:38 PM, levinsje said:

My previous DAC was an Eastern Electric minimax supreme.

It is not in the same league as the Terminator price wise or sound wise.

The rest of my system is:

Sonus Faber Ellipsa speakers.

Coincident Dragon 211 monoblocks

Shindo Monbrison preamp

SOTA cosmos turntable/Kiseki purple heart cartridge

 

However, my brother Dave is the Senior Vice President of the LA/Orange County audio society and he also has the Terminator.

It is the best Dac he has had in his system and he had the total dac and new version PS Audio dac.

His system is at a much higher price point than mine.

Interesting comments regarding your brother preferring the Terminator to the famed Total DAC. Which model total dac did he have, the d1-tube-MKII, or the d1-dualdac? Is it possible he could comment on how he felt the Terminator was superior? This could be of great benefit to my research into my next DAC purchase. Thanks.

 

JC

[levinsje]

I'm not sure which Total dac version my brother had.

It was over a year ago since he sold it.

He liked the Total dac very much but it required repair so he sent it to France to get fixed then sold it.

My brother mentioned that the Terminator is at least as good as the Total dac at about 1/3 the price..

[levinsje]

13 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Sorry Jim, I disagree,

the source determines the maximum quality level you can get from your system and is the most important. The more upstream component is always more important than the more downstream component.

 

Matt

Hi Matt,

I agree that the source is critically important but it does not matter how good the source is if the speakers are crap.

Once decent speakers are in the picture then I agree the source is the most important.

[mourip]

14 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Sorry Jim, I disagree,

the source determines the maximum quality level you can get from your system and is the most important. The more upstream component is always more important than the more downstream component.

 

Matt

 

+1.

Garbage in, garbage out.

 

If you have a good source then as you upgrade your downstream components you will only uncover better sound.

 

If you put money into revealing speakers but have a mediocre front end you will start will poor sound and it will continue until you have finally worked your way up the chain and upgraded your front end.

 

I would add that "good speakers" does not have to mean expensive, although I do understand that expensive is a term relative to one's own  finances. I also believe that a "good" speaker can sometimes scale up with upstream changes. My Omega Audio speakers are like that but I did buy them when my front end was already pretty good.

 

If some of this seems contradictory it probably is :-)

 

[levinsje]

21 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

+1.

Garbage in, garbage out.

 

If you have a good source then as you upgrade your downstream components you will only uncover better sound.

 

If you put money into revealing speakers but have a mediocre front end you will start will poor sound and it will continue until you have finally worked your way up the chain and upgraded your front end.

 

I would add that "good speakers" does not have to mean expensive, although I do understand that expensive is a term relative to one's own  finances. I also believe that a "good" speaker can sometimes scale up with upstream changes. That may seem contradictory. My Omega Audio speakers are like that but I did buy them when my front end was already pretty good.

 

I agree.

However, once the total system is pretty good in my experience improving the speakers can give the best bang for the buck.

 

For me and my brother the biggest bang for the buck with my digital sound was the Terminator.

Now my speakers produce deeper and tighter bass.

Before my speakers were flat to 35Hz.

Now they are flat to 30Hz with plenty of sound at 25Hz (although at lower volume compared to the other frequencies when I run my real time analyzer on iphone).

The digital now sounds analogue very much to my vinyl.

[Milt99]

Everyone has an opinion on system makeup. To me the operative word is system.

Yes, a fine source can bring out the best in your speakers, as speakers can bring out the best in your source.

The same for a pre-amp and amp. it all depends on the person's system which component is the weakest link.

[TubeLover]

Has anyone else tried this fascinating DAC?

 

JC

[TubeLover]

Based on extremely positive remarks not only here at CA, but in other forums, the 6 Moons review, etc. I'm more than a little surprised that there hasn't been more commentary about this DAC. Is it still mostly unknown, available in limited quantities, or?

 

JC

[rothosand]

3 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Based on extremely positive remarks not only here at CA, but in other forums, the 6 Moons review, etc. I'm more than a little surprised that there hasn't been more commentary about this DAC. Is it still mostly unknown, available in limited quantities, or?

 

JC

It's because Terminator owners (like myself) are too busy listening to it ! 

 

More seriously, this DAC has tremendous value for money. It is at the same time very detailed, transparent, dynamic, and not at all aggressive.

 

My previous DAC (Benchmark DAC2 HGC) was very neutral and quite detailed, but the Terminator digs deeper into the recordings, and its tone colors (particularly on voices, and period instruments) are far richer.

 

Moreover, it handles 24/352 (DXD) and DSD256 flawlessly (couldn't find any 24/384 to try... ) and natively.

[guymrob]

Has anyone able to playback using Roon (ROCK) or using Auralic Ares without having issue with Ammaero USB based chipset? The last time using XMOS, I got issue on hissing noise.  

[tipunch]

Terminator in order!!!
With the advantage to be WITHOUT this $h*t of MQA 

 

Thank you Denafrips

[rothosand]

An interesting comparison between  Denafrips Terminator and Schiit Yggdrasil (without Analog 2 Upgrade) :

http://terminatorandyggdrasil.blogspot.fr/

[roberto2]

3 hours ago, tipunch said:

Terminator in order!!!
With the advantage to be WITHOUT this $h*t of MQA 

 

Thank you Denafrips

You will not be disappointed by this fabulous dac! ?

[Tintinabulum]

4 hours ago, tipunch said:

WITHOUT this $h*t of MQA 

 

Slightly curious, have you heard MQA ( to condem it)?

[tipunch]

1 hour ago, Tintinabulum said:

Slightly curious, have you heard MQA ( to condem it)?

Hello,

Yes, of course!

Sincerely, what are the advantages of the MQA? (With regard to the already existing formats).
The place on the hard disk? (When 8tb cost 200€) For the streaming? (At the hour either we look at movies in HD in streaming and or we soon pass in fiber optics.
Is the sound better? Either NO!!!
Instead of creating a new LOSS format, record companies would do better of remaster their records badly masterised (Loudness War)!!!

[Tintinabulum]

58 minutes ago, tipunch said:

Hello,

Yes, of course!

Great so what sort of equipment did you use and how did it sound?

 

1 hour ago, tipunch said:

what are the advantages of the MQA?

Better sound? Isn't that the point?

[barrows]

23 minutes ago, Tintinabulum said:

Great so what sort of equipment did you use and how did it sound?

 

Better sound? Isn't that the point?

Apparently you have been fooled.  I suggest that you read the article on MQA at the home page of computer audiophile.com to gain some understanding of MQA.

[Tintinabulum]

6 minutes ago, barrows said:

 

6 minutes ago, barrows said:

 

6 minutes ago, barrows said:

Apparently you have been fooled.  

Well my ears may have been fooled! At least I’ve listened. 

 

I’ve tried to read the comments about MQA but there too much hateful bile there obscuring the reasoned arguments. It’s like a pack of playground bullies, most of them without much to add and spoiling the discussion to a large extent.

 

I know you to be no fool but you don’t know that about me. I’ve read and listened and it isn’t sh*t, it’s music.