Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer

[rothosand]

20 hours ago, Milt99 said:

A great sign would be if Denafrips offers an upgrade to current owners for 512 DSD capability.

 

That is indeed the case, according to Alvin, from Vinshine Audio (worldwide distributor of Denafrips) :

"However, the dsd512 is not supported at the moment. We plan to implement it in 2nd quarter of 2018. Customer can purchase the DSP board to replace the existing one to upgrade."

 

This is a confirmation that the Terminator has a modular design, as is also told on another forum :

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150966.40

[rothosand]

3 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Based on extremely positive remarks not only here at CA, but in other forums, the 6 Moons review, etc. I'm more than a little surprised that there hasn't been more commentary about this DAC. Is it still mostly unknown, available in limited quantities, or?

 

JC

It's because Terminator owners (like myself) are too busy listening to it ! 

 

More seriously, this DAC has tremendous value for money. It is at the same time very detailed, transparent, dynamic, and not at all aggressive.

 

My previous DAC (Benchmark DAC2 HGC) was very neutral and quite detailed, but the Terminator digs deeper into the recordings, and its tone colors (particularly on voices, and period instruments) are far richer.

 

Moreover, it handles 24/352 (DXD) and DSD256 flawlessly (couldn't find any 24/384 to try... ) and natively.

[rothosand]

An interesting comparison between  Denafrips Terminator and Schiit Yggdrasil (without Analog 2 Upgrade) :

http://terminatorandyggdrasil.blogspot.fr/

[rothosand]

6 hours ago, accwai said:

 

Totally man! But now, the ML article reads:

 

Quote

The Order d1-tube-mk2 > d1-seven > Terminator > Border Patrol.

So he's now put the cheap totaldac in front of the expensive one. The cheap one is about half the price of the expensive one and 2 generations behind. In fact, the tube output has been abandoned since the last generation. So the front runner now is from an orphaned product line. ML must be reading this thread and back pedaled when he saw he's been exposed. That *so* lame...

 

But on the bright side, it's clear now that he can be pressed into changing his writings. We should keep piling on the pressure and he'll soon give the crown to the Terminator, which should have it in the first place. Please keep up the good work!

 

ML did not change his writing.

 

The sentence you quoted did not refer to a hierarchy between the DACs , but only explained in which order the different DACs were listened to, for each track. See also the following sentence :

 

Quote

Once two tracks played through each DAC, two new tracks were selected and played back in reverse DAC Order.

 

[rothosand]

Regardless of the undeniable qualities of the Totaldacs, I am quite surprised by the superficiality of the DAC comparison made by ML and his colleagues.

 

And the fact that he ostentatiously refuses to answer basic and important questions, such as the one below, is quite surprising, and not very flattering...

 

Quote

Details, details...
Submitted by Empirical on March 8, 2018 - 10:03am
Since the devil is in them, what input was used on the DACs and what was the source?

Steve N.

Quote

Since I didn't get an answer, I'll ask again
Submitted by Empirical on March 12, 2018 - 11:09am
Were you using the S/PDIF or USB inputs on each DAC?

What source was driving them? Transport? Server?

You got an answer, Steve..
Submitted by Michael Lavorgna on March 12, 2018 - 12:01pm
...just not the one you were hoping for.

 

I thought ML was an honest and informative guy, but now I have my doubts...

[rothosand]

6 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

Hello all Denafrips Owners, i pulled the trigger with a Terminator DAC and before it arrives iam trying to figure out what kind of cables and DDC converters should i look into...What are you using with your DACs?:

 

For the moment, I did not try any of the I2S inputs.

 

Some apparently consider that the USB input on the Terminator is far more qualitative than with other DACs and that this DAC is less sensitive to the quality of the input...

 

I am currently using the Totaldac USB cable/filter, and it works great ! This way, I have a bit of the Totaldac sound combined with the Terminator  

[rothosand]

Another comparison of the Terminator has been made on Audiostream, this time with the Lampizator Atlantic DAC (equipped with all possible options...), by Alex Halberstadt :

https://www.audiostream.com/content/lampizator-atlantic-dac

 

Quote

While I had no comparably-priced DAC on hand to compare to the Atlantic, I did receive a very heavy box containing the DENAFRIPS Terminator, a DAC from China that's recently developed a rabid online following (review forthcoming). Like the Atlantic it's a ladder DAC, but there the similarities end. A quick comparison showed that the Terminator makes music with a cooler tone but even bigger dynamics, a deeper and taller soundstage, and a more detailed, textured sound—while sounding as organic as the Atlantic. On the other hand, the Terminator doesn't offer the Atlantic's volume control, remote, possibility of tube rolling, and weighs more than both of my road bikes combined.

 

[rothosand]

20 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Does anyone know what "standard" the Denafrips uses of I2s?  Hopefully the SU-1 supports it.

 

The I2S pinout of the Terminator is user configurable (with the "Mode" button), so it can be used with different "standards"...

 

See the User Manual, page 5.

[rothosand]

Has anyone made comparisons between the Terminator in "NOS" mode (whether PCM or DSD) and other DACs which benefit from DSD512 upsampling (such as the T+A DAC 8 DSD) ?

[rothosand]

16 hours ago, luisma said:

Question here, internally the DAC should be doing upsampling if what's being fed is not already upsampled, is that an accurate statement?

The OS/NOS button is used to toggle between the NOS mode (non oversampling) and the OS mode (oversampling).

When the corresponding LED is lit, the Terminator is in NOS mode.

[rothosand]

16 hours ago, luisma said:

I believe my problems were related to be using a beta version of A+ and in JRiver the DoP option creates issues.

To play DSD on the Terminator with JRiver, you mustn't use the DoP mode (DSD over PCM), but the Native DSD mode (DSD data directly passed to the DAC, without being packed in a PCM container). Otherwise, DSD256 won't play on the Terminator.

 

My only issue with the Terminator and JRiver (I didn't try another soft) is when I switch from a PCM signal that is a multiple of 48kHz (24/48, 24/96 or 24/192) to a DXD signal (PCM 24/352.8) : I hear a hissing noise instead of the music. No issue however when I switch to a lower res 44.1 kHz multiple (24/44, 24/88 or 24/176).

[rothosand]

3 hours ago, alvin1118 said:

Amanero firmware_1099c supports DSD256 native playback in Windows PC. DoP mode shall be disabled. For the DXD, did you try on roon/other software? 

Hello Alvin,

 

To play music, I only use JRiver, and I didn't try another soft.

I should add that my problem is only from 24/48, 24/96 or 24/192 to the highest 24/352.8, but no problem when going from 24/192 to 24/176.4, for example.

 

So, when I want to play 24/352.8, and I am currently playing a 48kHz-multiple PCM track, I just have to previously switch to a 44.1kHz-multiple PCM track (44.1, 88.2 ou 176.4). No big deal, obviously, especially since I have very few DXD albums...

 

Anyway, if you could look into this and correct that problem with a firmware upgrade, that would be great !

[rothosand]

15 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Very exciting news release - Denafrips announced the new DSD board that is capable to support DSD1024 / PCM1536.

 

Here is the link to the news release:  https://www.denafrips.com/single-post/2019/05/31/DSD1024-PCM1536---Are-you-ready?utm_campaign=172bce72-fe20-49ed-aced-396d8b014862&utm_source=so

 

Looking forward to run DSD1024 soon in my system.

 

Ok, but apparently it is a hardware upgrade. The new DSP board can be purchased separately :

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/dsp-board-terminator-dac

 

But is it possible to do the upgrade by ourselves ?

[rothosand]

2 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Yes, its user upgrade-able.

Where can I find the instructions to do so ?

 

I'd like to see if it is really easy or rather tricky... I wouldn't want to have to send it back to Singapore if I make a mistake...

[rothosand]

1 hour ago, alvin1118 said:

3. Endurance time of the capacitors is usually 15yrs approximately, depending on usage. Thanks, @Miska of your excellence answers pertaining to this question. 

 

Hello Alvin,

 

So you recommend to turn the Terminator off when not in use, in order to save the lifetime of the capacitors ?

[rothosand]

4 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

I don't know what is recommended from Denafrips but my Terminator (and all DACs that I have used earlier) is always on - it takes a while for the clocks to stabilize and solid state devices to warm up from a cold start. Tube gears takes much less time. 

Yes, that’s also what I am used to, but Miska seems to recommend to power it off. I’d like to know the lifetime difference, when the unit is always on or only when it is used...

[rothosand]

Hello,

 

On the Denafrips website, I see there are 2 versions available of the Thesycon driver for the new DSP Board : V4.59.0 and V4.67.0 : does anyone know the difference between them ?

 

https://www.denafrips.com/terminator-download

[rothosand]

Thanks @alvin1118

 

Another question : is it recommended to uninstall the Amanero driver before installing the Thesycon one, or is it OK to leave the Amanero installed (I mean, when upgrading to the new DSP board) ?

[rothosand]

4 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

Has anyone in this group updated the firmware update of your Terminators ?

Yes, a couple of weeks ago, because after installing the new DSP board, I had problems with certain DSD files...

 

The upgrade procedure is very straightforward.