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Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer


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I just emailed Denafrips about the DSD playback limits, they confirmed in Q2 2018 they'll release a new DSP board that supports DSD512 over USB and I2s inputs. So, the Terminator DAC is officially getting DSD512. And that puts it square on my list for my DAC replacement. 

 

I'd love to have a shootout with this and the T+A DAC 8 DSD. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 13/12/2017 at 10:53 AM, Milt99 said:

A great sign would be if Denafrips offers an upgrade to current owners for 512 DSD capability.

 

On 14/12/2017 at 7:16 AM, rothosand said:

That is indeed the case, according to Alvin, from Vinshine Audio (worldwide distributor of Denafrips) :

"However, the dsd512 is not supported at the moment. We plan to implement it in 2nd quarter of 2018. Customer can purchase the DSP board to replace the existing one to upgrade."

 

Also according to Alvin, the DSP board upgrade will be a "for purchase" upgrade that the current owners can DIY replace at home. Price was $150-250, but I can't remember the exact price.

 

Ans new Terminator DACs sold after the DSP board upgrade release will come included with it. Alvin couldn't confirm if there would be any price increase, but I don't think there would be much of one for that kind of price. 

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  • 5 months later...
16 hours ago, k6davis said:

I've got my eye on this DAC too. Every impression of it I've read has been highly favorable and I love an "expensive bargain". ? 

 

We're nearing the end of Q2 2018, so I'm trying to hold out for the DSD512 DSP board so I can have that included. I use DSD upsampling for everything. Does anyone know how I would get DSD512 into the DAC through its I2s inputs? 

 

16 hours ago, tboooe said:

This is great to know!  DSD512 was the only reason why I was not considering this.  Once its released I am going to pull the trigger and compare it to my Holo Spring.

 

As for I2S, I use the Singxer SU-1 as input into my Spring.  I believe Pink Faun also has an I2S pcie card.  

 

Does anyone know what "standard" the Denafrips uses of I2s?  Hopefully the SU-1 supports it.

 

15 hours ago, niner93 said:

 

I just ordered one.  And according to Alvin @ Vinshine Audio, DSD512 support was delayed to end of the year.  And it will be firmware upgrade, no new hardware.

 

I've been in touch with Alvin sort of consistently, checking in about a local demo and the DSD development. Unfortunately, he told me that DSD512 support have been moved to the back burner without an expected date and he's stopped answering my emails...


I hate to sound like a negative Nancy, but I wouldn't hold out much hope for Denadrips coming through with DSD512 support before the end of the year. Or ever. 

 

Here's the email:

Quote

 

FROM: Vinshine Audio

TO: Me
Date: May 16th, 2018 

 

Hi Ben,

Good to hear from you again!

Sadly the DSD512 is put on lower priority now. Denafrips and i agree that DSD512 materials aren't widely available, it's a good thing to have it supported but it's not absolutely necessarily (i hope you think so too!).
 
Terminator works flawlessly with Windows and Linux for DSD256 :)

 

2
 
 
So, not looking like much hope there, unless undetermined "low priority" has turned into "scheduled for later this year via a firmware update" within 2 weeks...
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13 hours ago, k6davis said:

I just ordered one too. I was waiting for DSD512 because I thought it was imminent. It'll be impressive if they can deliver it with a firmware update, but in the meantime, I want to hear what this unit can do.

 

I'm really interested in whether this is possible also. If it were possible, certainly it should have always been a more feasible and lower cost option than going to develop new hardware and software/code for a new DSP daughter-board, then test all of that, and deal with an install.... If it was, why bother going the other route? Could happen, but it's not complicated math to see which one is the greater investment all-round.

 

Due to the answer you've heard, the constant but not stopped communication I was having with Alvin, and not having been informed of the change, it all strikes me as a bit flaky. Especially that it's now possible via a firmware update, and the rough time estimate is 6 months out, exactly like the last rough time estimate for the new DSP board that was also 6 months out...

 

Again, not to be a negative Nancy, and hey, DSD512 isn't the be-all-end-all, it's only a single format. All of it just makes me go "hmmm" and lose some excitement for this DAC.

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/17/2018 at 9:56 AM, alvin1118 said:

Hello guys, there is no firm date yet. But I'm positive that it will be released by end of this year :)

Hi Alvin,

 

I was wondering if you have any updates on the DSSD512 firmware update on the Terminator yet? I've been holding off from purchasing directly because of this topic. I understand the Terminator is highly lauded at all formats and has great feedback with DSD256 content, but I'm still holding out for DSD512 capability via USB and I2s inputs. 

 

For now, I am trying to do a source shootout to find which one will be able to stream/render DSD512 over USB the best way. Unfortunately for DSD512 over I2s, there are only a couple options that I know of: Singxer SU-1 and Magna Hifi Mano Streamer. I wish there were others, but at least the SU-1 has a very respected track record. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/2/2018 at 1:37 AM, Ben-M said:

Hi Alvin,

 

I was wondering if you have any updates on the DSSD512 firmware update on the Terminator yet? I've been holding off from purchasing directly because of this topic. I understand the Terminator is highly lauded at all formats and has great feedback with DSD256 content, but I'm still holding out for DSD512 capability via USB and I2s inputs. 

 

For now, I am trying to do a source shootout to find which one will be able to stream/render DSD512 over USB the best way. Unfortunately for DSD512 over I2s, there are only a couple options that I know of: Singxer SU-1 and Magna Hifi Mano Streamer. I wish there were others, but at least the SU-1 has a very respected track record. 

@alvin1118

Any updates as per the last time I asked, nearly 2 months ago?

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On 10/19/2018 at 4:19 PM, Triplefun said:

Any DAC with an xmos xu 208 USB interface, such as that used by the singxer su-1 and topping d50, will support native dsd512 over USB. FYI, the matrix x-sabre pro supports native dsd1024 over USB. But these are all delta sigma and not really in the same league as the denafrips.

 

You might also be interested in the holo audio spring DAC also mentioned in this forum and capable of dsd512.

Thanks for the heads up. My T+A DAC 8 DSD already does DSD512 and I've been very impressed with is vs. DSD256. 

 

DSD512 is not currently supported on the Terminator, but it was in development as of ~6 months ago. I'm hoping to hear an update as that's currently the limiting factor in my purchase of this DAC. I know that might sound unreasonable, but I've got to slow my roll somehow...

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6 hours ago, alvin1118 said:

Hello guys,

 

My apologies for the delay. I may have good news soon. (hint?)

 

Alvin w/ ♥️

Thanks a lot for replying, Alvin. 

 

I'm not sure what to expect, but I've been crossing my fingers for months now and I'm hoping to hear some great news. I hope you can expand on your news soon ?

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  • 2 months later...
On 9/2/2018 at 1:37 AM, Ben-M said:

Hi Alvin,

 

I was wondering if you have any updates on the DSSD512 firmware update on the Terminator yet? I've been holding off from purchasing directly because of this topic. I understand the Terminator is highly lauded at all formats and has great feedback with DSD256 content, but I'm still holding out for DSD512 capability via USB and I2s inputs. 

Still beating the dead(?) horse here, quoting my own posts now for the 3rd time in 9 months. 

 

@alvin1118 Can you tell us the status of the DSD512 capable firmware update? Is it time we start getting ready for the next flagship DAC from Denafrips because this one is getting long in the tooth? 

 

Thanks.

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  • 2 months later...
On 1/14/2019 at 10:34 PM, alvin1118 said:

Hello guys,

 

We're getting closer, slowly but surely. 

Keep our finger crossed to have some good news after the Chinese New Year! 

 

Many thanks.

 

Best,

Alvin

Vinshie Audio

 

 

Hello again, Alvin. 

 

It's over a month after CNY holidays now, are there any good updates? 

 

And can you say anything about a new, higher-end DAC from Denafrips? I'm wondering with all the new components from them and the lack of upgrades or new releases with the Terminator. 

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  • 9 months later...
On 1/7/2020 at 12:18 AM, Blake said:

Hi all.  I ordered my Terminator last month and will be receiving my unit soon. After reading various online reviews and comments, my impression is that USB input is the generally favored input in terms of best sound quality.  Is that correct?

 

I believe USB and i2s HDMI LVDS are the 2 favoured inputs, with some preferring/hoping the i2s input is better. I have sided with the I2s input so far, from sources like the USB->i2s DDC Singxer SU-1 or new SU-6. 

 

On 1/7/2020 at 12:42 AM, alvin1118 said:

Happy New Year, guys! 

 

The USB cable needs to supply the 5VDC as a logic trigger, along with USB input selection via the front panel, the AND logic will 'wake up' the Terminator USB receiver.  The USB receiver will be powered up by the internal Linear Power Supply.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Yours sincerely,

Alvin Chee

www.vinshineaudio.com

What you just described may be what's called the "USB receiver handshake", and after that the USB power is supplied from another source. 

 

If so, then it means the 5V power leg from the USB source device can likely be disconnected after the USB handshake successfully occures. This was a common tweak that many people said improved the sound quality of these kinds of USB implementations back a few years ago. Might be good here too?

 

On 1/14/2020 at 10:39 PM, bodiebill said:

Can anyone advise on the best way to (after-factory) burn-in a new Terminator?

I am also asking this as I am not sure whether the PCM and DSD routes require separate burn-in.

- Pink noise, white noise, brown noise.

- 500 hours. 

- PCM and DSD circuits are not the same, thus need to either be burned in separately if you're going to rotate or just go with the one you need firstly and then burn in the other one after you get to 500hrs on the first.

- Don't forget connecting the desired output as well. XLR seems to be preferred. Me included. 

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1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

Thanks, that is useful.

Quite a life task.

It does promote patience, especially in trying to find out my preferred circuit (PCM or DSD)...

Maybe shoot for 150hrs each? You could do that by running the DAC ~24/7 for 1 week on each circuit. I think that'd be a safe way to start and not cost you much time. 

And you're very welcome. I do have 24/192 PCM white, pink, and brown noise files now, but before I had them I just cycled playlists with various music, trying to reach that 150-500hr target on my new components. Even now that I have the noise files, I still put them in a playlist with real music.

 

59 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

My amp does not have balanced inputs. In that case, is there any way to benefit from the Terminator's balanced outputs? Adapters? Or does that make no sense? 

The best and "official" way is to use a conversion transformer, the likes of a Jensen ISO-MAX or Radial _____. They both use Jensen transformers and come from the pro-audio world, but that's the ticket to real XLR-> RCA conversion. However, another approach is via a pigtail style adapter. I don't have any, but they just take 1 side of the balanced signal. I've heard good things about both, and better things about the transformer route, for various reasons. But then you're at the whim of the transformer quality and sound~

 

I'd probably just give the standard Terminator RCA outs a shot first, then pick up a conversion transformer from Amazon (about $150-300 USD) and try. If it's not worth it, you can return it. And in the meantime, you get nice music. 

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